"Ye will hear of battles and rumors of battles" 1st century concluding in Judea/Jerusalem 70ad

LittleLambofJesus

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I am going back thru the 1st century Jerusalem/Temple discourse and am also putting up some interesting utube vids concerning the war of the Jews from 63ad thru the final 70ad destruction of Jerusalem........

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of battles and rumors of battles. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass,
but the end is not yet.

Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of battles and rumors of battles, do not be troubled;
for such things must happen,
but the end is not yet.


Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of battles and commotions/tumults, do not be terrified;
for these things must come to pass first,
but the end is not immediate.”


302660_c2760f5cc7d57e7088338ce451af705b.jpg


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Our Lord now retired to the Mount of Olives, to which place the disciples followed him, in order to make more particular inquiries relative to the time when the calamitous events, foretold by him, would come to pass. We have already intimated, that, the Mount of Olives commanded a full view of Jerusalem and the temple. No situation, therefore, could have been better adapted to give energy to a prediction which related chiefly to their total ruin and demolition.; and if we suppose (and the supposition is highly probable) that our LORD, While in the act of speaking, pointed to the majestic and stupendous edifices, whose destruction he foretold, every word which he then uttered must have been clothed with inexpressible sublimity, and derived from the circumstances of the surrounding scenery a force and effect, which it is not possible adequately to conceive.
"Tell us, when shall these things be ? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled ?" Such were the questions of the disciples, in answer to which our LORD condescended to give them a particular account of the several important events that would precede, as well as of the prognostics which would announce, the approaching desolations ; including suitable directions for the regulation of their conduct under the various trials to which they were to be exposed........

were so frequent from the death of our Lord until the destruction of Jerusalem,that whole interval might, with propriety, appealed to, in illustration of this prophecy. One hundred and fifty of the copious pages of Josephus, which contain the history of this period, are every where stained with blood. To particularize in a few instances : About three years after the death of Christ, a war broke out between Herod and Aretas, king of Arabia Petraea, in which the army of the former was cut off. This was kingdom rising against kingdom Wars are usually preceded by rumours. It may, therefore, appear absurd to attempt a distinct elucidation of this part of the prophecy ; nevertheless, it ought not to be omitted, that about this time, the emperor Caligula, having ordered his statue to be placed in the temple of Jerusalem, and the Jews having persisted to refuse him, the whole nation were so much alarmed, by the mere apprehension of war, that they neglected even to till their lands ! The storm, however, blew over.

About this period a great number, of Jews, on account of a pestilence which raged at Babylon, removed from that city to Se leucia, where the Greeks and Syrians rose against them, and destroyed of this devoted people more than five myriads ! "The extent of this slaughter (says Josephus) had no parallel in any former period of their history." Again, about five years after; this dreadful massacre, there happened a severe contest between the Jews at Perea, and the Philadelphians, respecting the limits of a city called Mia, in which many of the former were slain. This was nation rising up against nation.

Four year afterwards, under Cumanus, and indignity was offered to the Jews within the precincts of the temple, by a Roman soldier, which they violently resented ; but, upon the approach of the Romans in great force, their terror wits so excessive, and so disorderly and precipitate their flight, that not less than ten thousand Jews were trodden to death in the streets. This, again, was nation rising up against nation.

Four years more had not elapsed, before the Jews made war against the Samaritans, and ravaged their country. The people of Samaria had murdered a Galilean, who was going up to Jerusalem to keep the Passover, and the Jews thus revenged it. At Caesarea, the Jews having had a sharp contention with the Syrians for the government of the city, an appeal was made to who decreed it to the Syrians. This event laid the foundation of a most cruel and sanguinary contest between the two nations.

The Jews, mortified by disappointment, and inflamed by jealousy, rose against the Syrians, who successfully repelled them. In the city of Casesarea alone upwards of twenty thousand Jews were slain. The flame, however, was not now quenched ; it spread its destructive rage wherever the Jew and Syrians dwelt together in the same place : throughout every city, town, and village, mutual animosity and slaughter prevailed. At Damascus, Tyre, Ascalon, Gadara, and Scythopolis, the carnage was dreadful. At the first of these cities, ten thousand Jews were slain in one hour, and at Scythopolis thirteen, thousand treacherously in one night. At Alexandria the Jews, aggrieved by the oppressions of the Romans, rose against. them ; but the Romans, gaining the ascendancy, slew of that nation fifty thousand persons, sparing neither infants nor the aged. And after this, at the siege of Jopata, not less than forty thousand Jews perished. While these destructive contests prevailed in the East, the western parts of the Roman empire were rent by the fierce contentious of Galba, Otho, and Vertellis ; of which three emperors, it is remarkable that they all, together with Nero, their immediate predecessor, died a violent death, within the short space of eighteen months Finally, the whole nation of the Jews took up arms against the Romans, king Agrippa, &c. and provoked that dreadful war which, in a few years, deluged Judea in blood, and laid its capital in ruins.


.......................

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LittleLambofJesus

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Revelation 9:9 appears to harmonize with Joel 2:4-5.
Are the ones in these verses symbolizing the Roman army in 1st centrury Israel/Judea? Were chariots used during the Jewish wars of the 1st century?

Rev 9:9
And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle<4171>.

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
H4421 occurs 319 times in 308 verses

Joel 2 :
1 Sound the trumpet in Zion, make a proclamation in my holy mountain, and let all the inhabitants of the land be confounded: for the day of the Lord is near;
2 for a day of darkness and gloominess is near, a day of cloud and mist:
a numerous and strong people shall be spread upon the mountains as the morning; there has not been from the beginning one like it, and after it there shall not be again even to the years of many generations.
3 Before them is a consuming fire, and behind them is a flame kindled: the land before them is as a paradise of delight, and behind them a desolate plain: and there shall none of them escape.
4 Their appearance is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they pursue.
5 As the sound of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, and as the sound of a flame of fire devouring stubble, and as a numerous and strong people setting themselves in array for battle<4421>.

Exodus 15:3
The LORD is a man of war<4421>;
The LORD is His name.


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LittleLambofJesus

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Enjoyed the video! I could not find the 4-of-4 video, but the first three were done up well. Thanks for sharing!
Someone mentioned in another post that the Romans had others also fighting with them and I noticed it was mentioned in one of those vids.
How many allies did the Romans have fighting with them?
This is the first I have ever heard of it and will have to delve more into it:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

and it having been discovered that some of them had swallowed gold, the Arabs and Syrians, who were incorporated in the Roman army,



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LittleLambofJesus

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Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of battles and rumors of battles. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of battles and rumors of battles, do not be troubled;
Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of battles and commotions/tumults, do not be terrified;

Used 1 other time in Gospels..........interesting verse

G4171πόλεμος (polemos),occurs 18 times in 16 verses.

Luke 14:31
'Or what king going on to engage with another king in war<4171>, doth not, having sat down, first consult if he be able with ten thousand to meet him who with twenty thousand is coming against him?
=================================
Heb 11:34
quenched the power of fire, escaped the mouth of the sword, were made powerful out of infirmities, became strong in battle, caused to give way camps of the aliens.

Jas 4:1
Whence are wars and fightings<3161> among you? not thence -- out of your passions, that are as soldiers in your members?
===========================================
And revelation

Rev 9:
7

And the likenesses of the locusts are like to horses made ready to battle, and upon their heads as crowns like gold, and their faces as faces of men,
9
and they had breastplates as breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings is as the noise of chariots of many horses running to battle;

Rev 11:7
'And when they may finish their testimony, the beast that is coming up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them,

Rev 12:
7

And there came war in the heaven; Michael and his messengers did war against the dragon, and the dragon did war, and his messengers,
17
and the dragon was angry against the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, those keeping the commands of God, and having the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 13:7
and there was given to it to make war with the saints, and to overcome them, and there was given to it authority over every tribe, and tongue, and nation.

Rev 16:14
for they are spirits of demons, doing signs -- which go forth unto the kings of the earth, and of the whole world, to bring them together to the battle of that great day of God the Almighty; --

Rev 19:19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, having been gathered together to make war with him who is sitting upon the horse, and with his army;

Rev 20:8
and he shall go forth to lead the nations astray, that are in the four corners of the earth -- Gog and Magog -- to gather them together to war, of whom the number is as the sand of the sea
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of battles and rumors of battles. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 “All these are the beginning of sorrows.”
Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of battles and rumors of battles, do not be troubled;
for such things must happen, but the end is not yet.
8 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles.
These are the beginnings of sorrows.”
Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of battles and commotions/tumults, do not be terrified;
for these things must come to pass first, but the end is not immediate.”
10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences;
and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.”

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

.
I like this site's timeline of the Jewish wars/rebellions.
In Acts 11 it was prophecied that a great famine was coming and in the next chapter James is killed, then they wanted to kill Peter.
Would this be the famine the occurred just prior to the siege of Jerusalem in 70ad? This is getting more and more fascinating.

Acts 11:
27Now in these days, prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28One of them named Agabus stood up, and indicated by the Spirit that there should be a great famine all over the land<3625>, which also happened in the days of Claudius. 29As any of the disciples had plenty, each determined to send relief to the brothers who lived in Judea; 30which they also did, sending it to the Elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
Acts 12:
1Now about that time, King Herod stretched out his hands to oppress some of the assembly. 2He killed James, the brother of John, with the sword. 3When he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to seize Peter also. This was during the days of unleavened bread. 4When he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of four soldiers each to guard him, intending to bring him out to the people after the Passover.
=====================
This was James's last Epistle before 70ad:

James 5:8

be patient! and stand-fast! the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has drawn nigh<1448>

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html


A.D. 62 - JERUSALEM
Church Historian Suggests James' Death the "Final Straw" Which Broke the Yoke
Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Final Days


Hegesippus - "James, the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church in conjunction with the apostles.. Because of his exceeding great justice he was called the Just.. Coming therefore in a body to James (the Scribes and Pharisees) said, 'We entreat thee, restrain the people; for they are gone astray in regard to Jesus, as if he were the Christ.. Do thou therefore persuade the multitude not to be led astray concerning Jesus. For the whole people, and all of us also, have confidence in thee.. And he answered with a loud voice,' Why do ye ask me concerning Jesus, the Son of Man ? He himself sitteth in heaven at the right hand of the great Power, and is about to come upon the clouds of heaven.' And when many were fully convinced and gloried in the testimony of James, and said, 'Hosanna to the Son of David,' these same Scribes and Pharisees said again to one another,' We have done badly in supplying such testimony to Jesus.. So they went up and threw down the just man, and said to each other, 'Let us stone James the Just.' And thus he suffered martyrdom. And they buried him on the spot, by the temple, and his monument still remains by the temple. He became a true witness, both to Jews and Greeks, that Jesus is the Christ. And immediately Vespasian besieged them."
===============================
 
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TribulationSigns

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Oh brother...

It is sad that many Preterists are looking for physical destruction as "desolate" of the city. For example, Christ told Israel very clearly that, "behold your house is left unto you desolate." Despite popular ideas about Israel's judgment, Israel didn't fall in AD 70, but the minute Christ died on the cross. That was the minute that darkness covered the land! The Temple veil rent from top to bottom as a sign that the shadows or types of the land, Priest, and temple were completed! The physical Temple was no longer the Holy place, the veil within no longer separating men from God, as through the CHURCH! Israel had been judged, blinded, and left with no prophet and no vision, and no so-called 40 years probationary period. That Jerusalem had been already judged, their city burned, and their kingdom was given to another. Not in AD 70, but the time of Christ's death and resurrection in 3 days. Likewise, when the new testament congregation is judged, it is the representation of Jerusalem that Christ spoke about in Olivet Discourse! It is the beloved city that Revelation 20 says Satan attacks when he is loosed. It's not about some plot of dirt in the middle east, it's the New Testament congregation - all over the world. And speaking of this time when they are to flee and not come down from the housetops, etc, God continues..

Matthew 24:21
  • "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
Tell me, honestly, was there great tribulation in AD 70 greater tribulation than at any other time period, or greater than any period since, or that ever will be? Seriously?! Of Course Not!!! I don't care what the man named Josephus claimed. I am not interested in history lessons, traditions nor smoke screens. I am not interested in Calvin's eschatology, Henry's eschatology, or Josephus's eschatology. I spend my time in the Bible, not in those commentaries and youtube craps you seen to snoop around. The whole idea would require such gymnastics as to be spiritually twisted. Moreover..

Matthew 24:29-31
  • "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
  • And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
  • And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
There is no possibility of erroneously intermingling these prophesies, For God first said the tribulation was in the days of fleeing to the mountains, and "THEN" seals these truths by declaring unambiguously that IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation "of those days" there is seen the sign of Christ's return. Selah!

It's all academic, because Christ directs us back to the prophecy of Daniel in referring to this Abomination of desolation that causes them to flee to the mountains, and (speaking of parallel passages) it is quite evident that those prophesies refer to the end of the world and the second coming. Not AD 70. I know it's easy to become confused with these prophecies, but that's why we have to search them out carefully.

No history can furnish us with a parallel to the calamities and miseries of the Jews? How about countless thousands raped, tortured, and six million killed in World war II alone? If physical tribulation is in view, your "war and rumors of war" in the Middle East among the Jews doesn't have a leg to stand on. And "Greater tribulation than ever was or ever will be?" Do you think the killing of Jews in 70AD is greater than the greater tribulation when Satan himself is loosed after the millennium to gather the armies together against the Holy city? That is nonsense. But this seems to be your distraction "DIVERTING" us from scripture in order to rely upon secular historians and YouTube Videos in an attempt to define and fulfill the Lord's prophecy. God doesn't work like that. The Bible is it's own interpreter, not historians. That is "precisely" how we know that Israel was judged at the cross. Not because of the writings of men you reference like Adam Whatz-his-name or Matthew Henry, but because God's Word says so. We follow the light of His Word, not the traditions of these men. Thus we are always guided down the right path. Stick with the Bible!

Psalms 119:105
  • "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."
His word, not Josephus, Matthew Henry or my own.
 
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TribulationSigns

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And one more thing... Christ is not weeping over a few thousand people being killed. Thousands of people are killed every day of the week. No, you do err. Christ was weeping at foreseeing the fall of Israel that they are blinded, and that the kingdom will be taken from them and given to another, not that some Romans would conquer their temporal city. He wept for their souls, not because they wouldn't run and hide in the mountains from Romans. That's not the important thing to weep over, their souls were what Christ wept over. That they were branches now broken off of the Covenanted Olive tree, and that their children now would have no root. That is what He wept over. People, like you, have got to stop looking at the world, the physical, carnal, fleshly, earthly symbols--but unto spiritual.

Luke 23:28-31
  • "But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
  • For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
  • Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
  • For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"
Are you going to define this prophecy by the ramblings of Josephus, who wasn't even a Christian, or do we define it by the "light" of the Word of God itself? It is clearly "NOT ONLY" a prophecy of the fall of Israel at the cross when Christ would be removed, but also a prophecy of the New Testament Church (the barren having more children). It has nothing whatsoever to do with the AD 70 theory. Try compare the parallel accounts about the barren having more children. It couldn't be any clearer. The green tree is when the Life of Christ is the root of Israel, and the dry is when Christ is no longer their Root and there is no longer that life in Israel. Therefore, she becomes barren, her children are dead in trespass and sin, blinded, and in bondage to Satan. While the barren (the nations) become of Christ. That was Israel after the cross, it didn't happen in AD 70! Nor 100 years after this. Selah!

Galatians 4:25-28
  • "For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
  • But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
  • For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
  • Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise."

To attempt to assign this fulfillment of prophesy of Christ to the year AD 70 is a BIG mistake and tortuous of Matthew 23.

Clearly, and despite your objections based on the tradition of those holding to Josephus or your favorite YouTube videos, the prophecy was already fulfilled when Galatians was written, and the Jerusalem in bondage was already judged of God and in bondage with her children. That is why Christ said to Jerusalem, weep for yourselves, and for your children. Because they were not the children of promise, not the children of the Jerusalem from above. This has nothing to do with Romans sacking a physical Jerusalem, physically killing children, it has to do with the wrath of God being UPON THIS PEOPLE, His covenant people, Israel, and they being left desolate by their rejection. People need to stop attempting to define scripture by secular history books, and define it by itself. The Bible is the only History book that can interpret prophesy.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Oh brother...

It is sad that many Preterists are looking for physical destruction as "desolate" of the city. We follow the light of His Word, not the traditions of these men. Thus we are always guided down the right path. Stick with the Bible!

Psalms 119:105
  • "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."
His word, not Josephus, Matthew Henry or my own.
Oh brother back at ya.

Why do you think 70ad Jerusalem was given double doubles for Her sins in Revelation 18?

Isaiah 40:2
Comfort, comfort my people, says your God. Speak tenderly to Jerusalem and proclaim to her that her hard service has been completed, that her sin has been paid for,
that she has received from the Lord's hands, doubles for all her sins.

Revelation 18:
5 “For Her sins have reached to heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities.
6 Render to Her as also she did render to ye,
and double to Her doubles according to Her works;
in the cup that She did mingle, mingle to Her double.
7 “In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow;
for she says in her heart,
‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.'

Lam 1:1
How deserted lies the city, once so full of people!
How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations!
She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave.

................................
 
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TribulationSigns

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Why do you think 70ad Jerusalem was given double doubles for Her sins in Revelation 18?

Why did you think God was talking about 70AD Jerusalem here? He didn't! According to Scripture:

Zechariah 12:3
  • "And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."
It's the allegorical story of two Jerusalems. One earthy, of this world and the flesh carnal, and remains at war with all around her--and one Spiritual, not of this world but of heaven, which is not carnal and has been comforted and is at peace. Yes, this passage points to judgment upon the earthly Jerusalem for sin, but also symbolism and imagery regarding their efforts at work to build and carry this city themselves, and their rejection of the unburdensome Stone as the Spiritual foundation of that building.

Psalms 127:1
  • "...Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain."
A Spiritual Nation, a Spiritual City, a Spiritual Temple, all with Spiritual Jews. This is what the nation of Israel and their facsimiles the Dispensationalists and Preterists don't understand about prophesy. Briefly, this all speaks of the earthly stone that men are laden with vs the Spiritual stone that is no burden to them. The burdensome stone represents something oppressively heavy. Jerusalem is this burdensome stone because its people (as they still do today) attempt to build and uphold the nation of Israel, the Holy City Jerusalem, and the Holy Temple and bear it by their own efforts. They are the prophesied builders (Mark 12:10) who by their own means and their own hands want to build earthly nations, kingdoms, cities, and Temples, and even 70AD city, foolishly thinking this is what prophecy requires and what God desires. And this is the great weight of Jerusalem that was and still is truly oppressing both them and every Zionist that is connected with this philosophy. By contrast, Christ "is" the Jerusalem that is a "Burden-less Stone" and is not heavy or oppressive to its people. Indeed He came as the foundation stone of the builders that He might relieve their burden, but they (like the Dispensationalists who sprang from their root) want nothing to do with a Spiritual Israel and are obsessed with a temporal land, Jerusalem and Temple like you do. In other words, Christ came as the Stone that would give them rest from these heavy burdens that no human could carry on their own, and they refused that type of Stone, that type of Messiah, that type of Kingdom. Take for example what Christ said in Matthew chapter 11:

Matthew 11:28-30
  • "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
  • Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
  • For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
Jesus Christ is the Stone whose burden is light as compared to the burden of earthly Jerusalem, because He does all the heavy lifting Himself. Christ is the burden-less stone that the builders (Jews) rejected! And that rejection means that they had to bear the heavy burden of sin themselves. Something mankind cannot do, and anyone who tries will come under God's judgment. That's why Christ came as the Spiritual nation, the Spiritual Israel, God's "true" only begotten Son called out of Egypt, the Spiritual Jerusalem from above, the Spiritual city of Peace, the Spiritual Holy Temple wherein we can inter into the true holiest of Holies in a Spiritual way through His flesh (Hebrews 10:20). For some reason, this Spiritual understanding of God's truth offends many. However, it is in this Spiritual Jerusalem only that God's chosen people may cast off that heavy and burdensome stone. For they think of Prophecy in earthly/worldly terms as concerning the people residing in a plot of dirt in the middle east. Consider the prophecy of Christ's coming and the language of this Spiritual Jerusalem that will learn war no more:

Isaiah 40:1-3
  • "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
  • Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.
  • The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."
This Jerusalem represents the elect people of God who will study war no more because they are the Jerusalem that is Spiritual and comforted of God. God was not talking about physical building of Jersualem. It is NOT earthly Jerusalem, NOR the physical city in Israel that finds Peace and safety, it is the people of this burdenless Stone. The covenanted people of Israel making up from Old and New Testament. These are two distinct and separate Jerusalems, as diverse as Hagar and Sarah and the Covenants with Israel that they represented.

Now, again one Jerusalem Christ wept over and prophesied its desolation:

Matthew 23:37-38
  • "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
  • Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."
This Jerusalem is the burdensome stone that has been cast down, and remains at war with God, who has brought its people to desolation for their rejection.

The other Jerusalem God has forgiven and comforted and made peace with. She is the of God, a Holy Nation, a holy City, a Holy TemHoly not made by the work of men's hands, but made without hands. This Jerusalem has a burdenless foundation stone whereupon we build, and it is this Stone that brought His people's rest and peace with God. The burdensome stone Jerusalem is surrounded with armies because she never has any peace and once the True Stone was rejected, God sent judgment upon it.

How ironic that a Holy City of God whose name means "Peace" would be found in captivity and at war wherein she was left desolated and in bondage/captivity with her children even to this day, while the Jerusalem which is from heaven would be set free and brought everlasting peace and safety. The allegory of the two groups is striking, but clearly understandable through Spiritual eyes opened by the power of the Revelator.

Galatians 4:23-26
  • "But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
  • Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Hagar.
  • For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
  • But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."
Here God illustrates the two Jerusalems. One of the flesh, a burdensome stone, represented by Hagar, at spiritual war with God and so remains to this day in bondage with her children. The other from above, set free from spiritual bondage/captivity by the Lord Jesus Christ and brought peace. This is the Jerusalem whereupon the Israel of the flesh stumbled upon in God's judgment.

Like I said often, you got wrong Jerusalem!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Why did you think God was talking about 70AD Jerusalem here? He didn't! According to Scripture:

Like I said often, you got wrong Jerusalem!
No, I got the right Jerusalem. I saw 70ad Jerusalem in Revelation back in 2003 when I first read the NT thru......

Mat 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers!
Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath?
Luk 3:7
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers!
Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath?
Mat 23:33
'Serpents! brood of vipers!
how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

Matthew 24:19
But woe to those that are with child, and those that give suck in those days.
Mark 13:17
But woe to those that are with child and to those that give suck in those days!
Luke 21:23
But woe to them that are with child and to them who give suck in those days,
for there shall be great distress upon the land and wrath upon this people.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
.........The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers,...........

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying:
"choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari,
and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes. "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but for yourselves and fur your children ; for, behold, the days are coming in which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the breasts that never gave suck." Luke xxiii. 29.

REVELATION 9:6 'MEN WILL BE SEEKING THE DEATH, DEATH IS FLEEING FROM THEM"


Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and shall be desiring/yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

Revelation 18:8
Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>,
that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.
Revelation 19:3
And a second time they have declared<4483> ‘HalleluYah!
and Her smoke is ascending into the ages of the ages!"

Is this a literal N J coming down out of Heaven to sit on top of the OC Jerusalem burning into the ages of the ages??

Rev 21:2
and I, John, saw the holy City -- new Jerusalem -- coming down from God out of the heaven,
made ready as a bride adorned for her husband;

Heb 12:22
But, ye came to Mount Zion, and to a City of the living God,
to the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of Messengers,

 
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TribulationSigns

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The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
.........The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers,...........

I see that you seek interpretation from a commentary instead of the Bible. Not surprised!

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying:
"choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari,
and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes. "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but for yourselves and fur your children ; for, behold, the days are coming in which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the breasts that never gave suck." Luke xxiii. 29.

What? You do not know what you are talking about.


Huh?


Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and shall be desiring/yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.


Do you even know what death God talked about in Revelation 9:6?! Do you realize that this only applies to men without the seal of God per context?

Revelation 18:8
Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>,
that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.

Revelation 19:3
And a second time they have declared<4483> ‘HalleluYah!
and Her smoke is ascending into the ages of the ages!"

You went all over the Scripture without really understand what you are reading. Your point is?

is this a literal N J coming down out of Heaven to sit on top of the OC Jerusalem burning into the ages of the ages??
Rev 21:2
and I, John, saw the holy City -- new Jerusalem -- coming down from God out of the heaven,
made ready as a bride adorned for her husband;

Heb 12:22
But, ye came to Mount Zion, and to a City of the living God,
to the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of Messengers,

Do you really think New Jerusalem is a physical city coming down from heaven? No, she represents the body of Christ's Elect.[/quote]
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I see that you seek interpretation from a commentary instead of the Bible. Not surprised!

What? You do not know what you are talking about.

Huh?

Do you even know what death God talked about in Revelation 9:6?! Do you realize that this only applies to men without the seal of God per context?

You went all over the Scripture without really understand what you are reading. Your point is?

Do you really think New Jerusalem is a physical city coming down from heaven? No, she represents the body of Christ's Elect.
I agree the New Jerusalem consists of the Elect Chosen Body of Christ.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Enjoyed the video! I could not find the 4-of-4 video, but the first three were done up well. Thanks for sharing!
Hello rocky. Part 4 has just been released. He also put all 4 vids together into 1 vid!

=====================================
I am also including his vid on the Romans taking the Fortress of Massaga in 73ad.

==========================================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of battles and rumors of battles. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.

==================================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism
TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM A MILITARY POINT OF VIEW
POV: Administrative | Factional | Military | Theological


CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR
Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
=======================================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Our Lord now retired to the Mount of Olives, to which place the disciples followed him, in order to make more particular inquiries relative to the time when the calamitous events, foretold by him, would come to pass. We have already intimated, that, the Mount of Olives commanded a full view of Jerusalem and the temple. No situation, therefore, could have been better adapted to give energy to a prediction which related chiefly to their total ruin and demolition.; and if we suppose (and the supposition is highly probable) that our LORD, While in the act of speaking, pointed to the majestic and stupendous edifices, whose destruction he foretold, every word which he then uttered must have been clothed with inexpressible sublimity, and derived from the circumstances of the surrounding scenery a force and effect, which it is not possible adequately to conceive.
"Tell us, when shall these things be ? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled ?" Such were the questions of the disciples, in answer to which our LORD condescended to give them a particular account of the several important events that would precede, as well as of the prognostics which would announce, the approaching desolations ; including suitable directions for the regulation of their conduct under the various trials to which they were to be exposed........

were so frequent from the death of our Lord until the destruction of Jerusalem,that whole interval might, with propriety, appealed to, in illustration of this prophecy. One hundred and fifty of the copious pages of Josephus, which contain the history of this period, are every where stained with blood. To particularize in a few instances : About three years after the death of Christ, a war broke out between Herod and Aretas, king of Arabia Petraea, in which the army of the former was cut off. This was kingdom rising against kingdom Wars are usually preceded by rumours. It may, therefore, appear absurd to attempt a distinct elucidation of this part of the prophecy ; nevertheless, it ought not to be omitted, that about this time, the emperor Caligula, having ordered his statue to be placed in the temple of Jerusalem, and the Jews having persisted to refuse him, the whole nation were so much alarmed, by the mere apprehension of war, that they neglected even to till their lands ! The storm, however, blew over.

About this period a great number, of Jews, on account of a pestilence which raged at Babylon, removed from that city to Se leucia, where the Greeks and Syrians rose against them, and destroyed of this devoted people more than five myriads ! "The extent of this slaughter (says Josephus) had no parallel in any former period of their history." Again, about five years after; this dreadful massacre, there happened a severe contest between the Jews at Perea, and the Philadelphians, respecting the limits of a city called Mia, in which many of the former were slain. This was nation rising up against nation.

Four year afterwards, under Cumanus, and indignity was offered to the Jews within the precincts of the temple, by a Roman soldier, which they violently resented ; but, upon the approach of the Romans in great force, their terror wits so excessive, and so disorderly and precipitate their flight, that not less than ten thousand Jews were trodden to death in the streets. This, again, was nation rising up against nation.

Four years more had not elapsed, before the Jews made war against the Samaritans, and ravaged their country. The people of Samaria had murdered a Galilean, who was going up to Jerusalem to keep the Passover, and the Jews thus revenged it. At Caesarea, the Jews having had a sharp contention with the Syrians for the government of the city, an appeal was made to who decreed it to the Syrians. This event laid the foundation of a most cruel and sanguinary contest between the two nations.

The Jews, mortified by disappointment, and inflamed by jealousy, rose against the Syrians, who successfully repelled them. In the city of Casesarea alone upwards of twenty thousand Jews were slain. The flame, however, was not now quenched ; it spread its destructive rage wherever the Jew and Syrians dwelt together in the same place : throughout every city, town, and village, mutual animosity and slaughter prevailed. At Damascus, Tyre, Ascalon, Gadara, and Scythopolis, the carnage was dreadful. At the first of these cities, ten thousand Jews were slain in one hour, and at Scythopolis thirteen, thousand treacherously in one night. At Alexandria the Jews, aggrieved by the oppressions of the Romans, rose against. them ; but the Romans, gaining the ascendancy, slew of that nation fifty thousand persons, sparing neither infants nor the aged. And after this, at the siege of Jopata, not less than forty thousand Jews perished. While these destructive contests prevailed in the East, the western parts of the Roman empire were rent by the fierce contentious of Galba, Otho, and Vertellis ; of which three emperors, it is remarkable that they all, together with Nero, their immediate predecessor, died a violent death, within the short space of eighteen months Finally, the whole nation of the Jews took up arms against the Romans, king Agrippa, &c. and provoked that dreadful war which, in a few years, deluged Judea in blood, and laid its capital in ruins.
...........................
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:6 Wars rumors of Wars

Matthew 24:

6 “And you will hear of battles and rumors of battles. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 “All these are the beginning of sorrows.”
====================================
The 4 part video combined in to 1 vid..........Awesome!


Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


..........................Our Lord now retired to the Mount of Olives, to which place the disciples followed him, in order to make more particular inquiries relative to the time when the calamitous events, foretold by him, would come to pass. We have already intimated, that, the Mount of Olives commanded a full view of Jerusalem and the temple. No situation, therefore, could have been better adapted to give energy to a prediction which related chiefly to their total ruin and demolition.; and if we suppose (and the supposition is highly probable) that our LORD, While in the act of speaking, pointed to the majestic and stupendous edifices, whose destruction he foretold, every word which he then uttered must have been clothed with inexpressible sublimity, and derived from the circumstances of the surrounding scenery a force and effect, which it is not possible adequately to conceive.

"Tell us, when shall these things be ? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled ?" Such were the questions of the disciples, in answer to which our LORD condescended to give them a particular account of the several important events that would precede, as well as of the prognostics which would announce, the approaching desolations ; including suitable directions for the regulation of their conduct under the various trials to which they were to be exposed. He commences with a caution : "Take heed," says be, "that no man deceive you ; for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many." The necessity for this friendly warning soon appeared ; for within one year after our Lord's ascension, rose Dositheus the Samaritan, who had the boldness to assert that he was the Messiah, of whom Moses prophesied ; while his disciple Simon Magus deluded multitudes into a belief that he, himself, was the " GREAT POWER OF GOD." About three years afterwards another Samaritan impostor appeared, and declared that he would shew the people the sacred utensils, said to have been deposited by Moses, in mount Gerizim. Induced by an idea that the Messiah, their great deliverer, was now come, an armed multitude assembled under him, but Pilate speedily defeated them, and slew their chief. While Cuspius Fadus was procurator in Judea, another deceiver arose, whose name was Theudas. [4] This man actually succeeded s O far as to persuade a very great multitude to take their effects and follow him to Jordan, assuring them, that the river would divide at his command. Fadus, however, pursued their with a troop of horse, and slew many of them, and among the rest the impostor himself, whose head was cut off and carried to Jerusalem. Under the government of Felix, deceivers rose up daily in Judea, and persuaded the people to follow them into the wilderness, assuring them that they should there behold conspicuous signs and wonders performed by the ALMIGHTY. Of these Felix, from time to time, apprehended many, and put them to death. About this period (A.D. 55,) arose Felix the celebrated Egyptian impostor, who collected thirty-thousand followers, and persuaded them to accompany him to the Mount of Olives, telling, them that from thence they should see the walls of Jerusalem fall down at his command, as, a prelude to the capture of the Roman garrison, and to their obtaining the sovereignty of the city. The Roman governor, however, apprehending this to be the beginning of revolt, immediately attacked them, slew four hundred of them, and dispersed the rest ; but the Egyptian effected his escape. In the time of Porcius Festus (A.D.60,) another distinguished impostor seduced the people, by promising them deliverance from the Roman yoke, if they would follow him into the wilderness ; but Festus sent out an armed force which speedily destroyed both the deceiver and his followers. In short, impostors, to a divine commission, continually and fatally deceived the people, and at once justified the caution, and fulfilled the prediction of our LORD.

If it be objected that none of these impostors, except Dositheus, assumed the name of Messiah, we reply, that the groveling expectations of the Jews was directed to a Messiah who should merely deliver them from the Roman yoke, and "restore the kingdom to Jerusalem ;" and such were the pretensions of these deceivers. This expectation, indeed, is the only true solution of these strange and reputed insurrections ; which will naturally remind the reader of the following prophetic expressions of our LORD : "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not ; if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." " If they shall say unto you, 'Behold he is in the desert !" go not forth. They will shew [5] (or pretend to shew) great signs and wonders,"' &c. Our Saviour thus proceeded : "And ye shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars ; see that ye be not troubled : for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet, for nation shall rise up against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences : all these are the beginnings of sorrows. " -- Matt. xxiv. 7,8.

Luke xxi. 11, "Wars and rumours of wars," &c. These commotions, like distant thunder, that forebodes the approaching storm,
 
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parousia70

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Matthew 24:21
  • "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
Tell me, honestly, was there great tribulation in AD 70 greater tribulation than at any other time period, or greater than any period since, or that ever will be? Seriously?!
Seriously.
AD 66-70 was the greatest Day-of-the-Lord event in Israel's history, and was, unquestionably, the one Christ's followers spoke of mere decades before it transpired. This was the same Day of the Lord concerning which the apostles stated they would remain alive unto its passing (1 Thess 5:2-4,23; Phil 1:6,10; Heb 10:25,36-39; 1 Cor 1:7-8; 1 Cor 5:5). Due to the covenantal significance of the event, that Day of the Lord's vengeance (cf. Luke 21:20-22; Isa 61:2; Jer 46:10) can never be repeated.

That bears repeating.

Due to the covenantal significance of the event, that Day of the Lord's vengeance (cf. Luke 21:20-22; Isa 61:2; Jer 46:10) can never be repeated.

There is no equal to the level of devastation millions of Messiah-rejecting Jews endured as they were violently excommunicated out of covenant with God (Matt 21:40-45; Acts 3:22-24).

1) In none of your later examples of supposedly GREATER Tribulation events did God's Covenant people get excommunicated out of Covenant with Him as a result, and therefore pale in comparison on the "eternal consequence" scale.

2)Do you realize that None of your later examples of supposedly GREATER events are found anywhere scripture?
I mean.. not ANYWHERE.
It's weird, since you rail against others' use of History and commentary to support their view... yet if you need to cite WWII or the Black Plague (things NOT found in scripture) to prop up YOUR Interpretation of the Bible, you happily give yourself a free pass to do so, in the same breath you harshly admonish others not to...

There's a word for that...

I am not interested in history lessons, traditions nor smoke screens. I am not interested in Calvin's eschatology, Henry's eschatology, or Josephus's eschatology. I spend my time in the Bible

Demonstrably not true as I have shown above, but, What a coincidence!
So do I!

Lets spend some time in the Bible together shall we?

Scripture tells us in 1 Kings 3:12 that there was "no king like Solomon before or after him." Such statements are then repeated in 2 Kings 18:5-6 of Hezekiah and in 2 Kings 23:25 of Josiah. Obviously, they can't all be the greatest King there ever was nor ever shall be. (And, of course, Jesus Christ surpasses even Solomon -- Matt. 12:42). Furthermore, this same Old Testament idea of "never will be again" is employed of various judgments that have already been fulfilled such as locusts in Egypt (Ex. 10:12-15; cf. Joel 1:1-4), a cry in Egypt (Ex. 11:6), and judgment upon O.T. Israel (Ez. 5:9; Joel 2:2).
The Ezekiel 5:9 passage ought to be especially instructive to you, for it states that the Babylonian conquest of Israel (sixth-century BC) would be the greatest judgment God had ever brought upon a nation, past or future.

What gives? Just how many "ever was nor ever shall be" events are there, and how can they all be the greatest that "ever was nor ever shall be"??


Matthew 24:21 is at least the 7th time recorded in scripture that Jesus/God says would be the "greatest that ever was nor ever shall be"..

Your Move... How does the futurist explain away these MULTIPLE "greatest that ever was nor ever shall be" Events scripture testifies of again and again??

Oh, and please stick to scripture... try as hard as you can to steer clear of commentaries, History Books, The Holocaust, the Middle ages, Traditions or Smoke Screens the way you have been doing.

Her's a hint... if you need to appeal to Hitler's Legacy or non-biblical commentary about diseases of the Middle ages to prove your interpretation of scripture, then your interpretation must not be very scriptural.

If it were, it could stand on Scripture alone.

So, Show us... and show us with scripture alone, please.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Seriously.
AD 66-70 was the greatest Day-of-the-Lord event in Israel's history, and was, unquestionably, the one Christ's followers spoke of mere decades before it transpired. This was the same Day of the Lord concerning which the apostles stated they would remain alive unto its passing (1 Thess 5:2-4,23; Phil 1:6,10; Heb 10:25,36-39; 1 Cor 1:7-8; 1 Cor 5:5). Due to the covenantal significance of the event, that Day of the Lord's vengeance (cf. Luke 21:20-22; Isa 61:2; Jer 46:10) can never be repeated.

That bears repeating.

Due to the covenantal significance of the event, that Day of the Lord's vengeance (cf. Luke 21:20-22; Isa 61:2; Jer 46:10) can never be repeated.

There is no equal to the level of devastation millions of Messiah-rejecting Jews endured as they were violently excommunicated out of covenant with God (Matt 21:40-45; Acts 3:22-24).

What a coincidence!
So do I!
Lets spend some time in the Bible together shall we?
Scripture tells us in 1 Kings 3:12 that there was "no king like Solomon before or after him." Such statements are then repeated in 2 Kings 18:5-6 of Hezekiah and in 2 Kings 23:25 of Josiah. Obviously, they can't all be the greatest King there ever was nor ever shall be. (And, of course, Jesus Christ surpasses even Solomon -- Matt. 12:42). Furthermore, this same Old Testament idea of "never will be again" is employed of various judgments that have already been fulfilled such as locusts in Egypt (Ex. 10:12-15; cf. Joel 1:1-4), a cry in Egypt (Ex. 11:6), and judgment upon O.T. Israel (Ez. 5:9; Joel 2:2).
The Ezekiel 5:9 passage ought to be especially instructive to you, for it states that the Babylonian conquest of Israel (sixth-century BC) would be the greatest judgment God had ever brought upon a nation, past or future.

What gives? Just how many "ever was nor ever shall be" events are there, and how can they all be the greatest that "ever was nor ever shall be"??


Matthew 24:21 is at least the 7th time recorded in scripture that Jesus/God says would be the "greatest that ever was nor ever shall be"..

Your Move... How does the futurist explain away these MULTIPLE greatest ever was nor ever shall be Events scripture testifies of??
Indeed. Nice post parousia.
It is the same fulfillment as the Jewish book of Daniel:

Daniel 12:1 "In that time Michael shall stand-up, the chief/prince, the great, the one, standing over sons of thy people.
And time of distress<06869>, which not occurred since coming a nation, until that time. And in that time, thy people shall escape<4422>, Every of the one being found being written in scroll.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:21 great tribulation, great distress, and wrath

Matthew has "great tribulation and beginning of world"
Mark has "tribulation and creation of world"
Luke never mentions tribulation or creation, however he does use the exact word form of #2889 for "world" as Matt 24 and 3 verses in Revelation.

Matthew 24:21
for then shall be great tribulation, such as not has become from beginning of world<2889> till of the now,
neither not no may be becoming.
Mark 13:19
for shall be the days, those, tribulation such as not has become such from beginning of creation<2397> which God creates till of the now, and not no may be becoming
Luke 21
22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled all the having been written
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath upon this people.

Luke also adds this:

36 “Yet be being vigilant/watching in every season, beseeching that ye should be being strong to be escaping<1628> all these, the being about to be becoming, and to stand before the Son of the Man.
=======================
Rom 2:9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape<1628>.

Daniel 12:1 "In that time Michael shall stand-up, the chief/prince, the great, the one, standing over sons of thy people.
And time of distress<06869>, which not occurred since coming a nation, until that time. And in that time, thy people shall escape<4422>, Every of the one being found being written in scroll.
=======================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

On the appearance of the Roman army, the factious Jews united, and, rushing furiously out of the city repulsed the tenth legion, which was with difficulty preserved. This event caused a short suspension of hostilities, and, by opening the gates, gave an opportunity to such as were so disposed to make their escape ; which before this they could not have attempted without interruption, from the suspicion that they wished to revolt to the Romans.

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,) but justifying, also, his friendly direction, that those who fled from the place should use the utmost possible expedition.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Similarity between the dates destruction of Jerusalem/Temple......

The Destruction of the Second Temple


Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, "You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down." As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?" (Matthew 24:1-3)

Both the Temple and the City of Jerusalem were indeed about to be destroyed. With four Legions, Titus the Roman General, later to become Caesar, began the siege of Jerusalem in April, A.D. 70. He posted his 10th legion on the Mount of Olives, directly east of and overlooking the Temple Mount. The 12th and 15th legions were stationed on Mount Scopus, further to the east and commanding all ways to Jerusalem from east to north. The 5th legion was held in reserve.


The Second 9th of Av - 70 C.E.

On the 10th of August, in A.D. 70 -- the 9th of Av -- in Jewish reckoning, the very day when the King of Babylon burned the Temple in 586 B.C., the Temple was burned again. Titus took the city and put it to the torch, burning the Temple.


Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus was present in Jerusalem when the city was captured and the Temple was burnt. He described the event in this manner:........................

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

APRIL, A.D. 70 - PHASE ONE
THE ROMAN ARMY ARRIVES AT JERUSALEM TO PREPARE THE SIEGE

The first night of Titus' encampment with the 15th, 3rd and 18th Legions, the 5th Legion arrived from Emmaus and set camp north of the city on Mount Scopus. Later the next day, the famed 10th Legion (founded by Julius Caesar) marched in from Jericho and camped on the Mount of Olives, east of the city. Instead of waiting to starve the Jews into submission, Titus decides to assault many different parts of the city and overwhelm the defenders. Titus was early on in the middle of the fighting with his soldiers. At least two times, Titus and his detachment are surrounded by defenders, only to escape unharmed.

The first obstacle was the Third Wall, just to the north of the Jaffa Gate. The ground leading up to it was felled to provide clear fields of fire and to provide timber for siege equipment. Two of the Jewish factions fighting within the city agree to work together against the Romans, but a third continued to fight the other factions. Massive quantities of corn were destroyed in bitter factional fighting.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @

APRIL, A.D. 70 - PHASE ONE
THE ROMAN ARMY ARRIVES AT JERUSALEM TO PREPARE THE SIEGE

The first night of Titus' encampment with the 15th, 3rd and 18th Legions, the 5th Legion arrived from Emmaus and set camp north of the city on Mount Scopus. Later the next day, the famed 10th Legion (founded by Julius Caesar) marched in from Jericho and camped on the Mount of Olives, east of the city. Instead of waiting to starve the Jews into submission, Titus decides to assault many different parts of the city and overwhelm the defenders. Titus was early on in the middle of the fighting with his soldiers. At least two times, Titus and his detachment are surrounded by defenders, only to escape unharmed.

The first obstacle was the Third Wall, just to the north of the Jaffa Gate. The ground leading up to it was felled to provide clear fields of fire and to provide timber for siege equipment. Two of the Jewish factions fighting within the city agree to work together against the Romans, but a third continued to fight the other factions. Massive quantities of corn were destroyed in bitter factional fighting.

LATE MAY, A.D. 70 - PHASE TWO
THE 5TH, 12TH, and 15TH LEGIONS QUARTER IN THE CAMP OF THE ASSYRIANS

Titus positioned the battering rams to attack the central northern tower of the Second Wall. The tower crumbled, and a section of the wall adjacent to the tower collapsed. The defenders then retreated inside the First Wall. Josephus was used at this juncture to implore the partisans to surrender, promising honorable treatment at the hands of the Romans. The defenders, in response, threatened death to any of the hundreds of thousands of refugees still inside should they have attempted to surrender.

Thousands of legionaries poured inside the ruined section of the wall, only to be caught up in a maze of narrow streets inside. Suddenly gates opened in the First Wall and the Romans were overwhelmed and forced to retreat behind the Second Wall.

Titus orders sustained ramming operations and succeeds in opening several new breaches. When the Romans retake the Second Wall, the Jews are forced to again retreat inside the first wall. All buildings between the two walls are then demolished by the Romans. Titus then suspends the siege.

 
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