The Surprising Secret of Church Growth

Peter J Barban said:

Research shows that when church leaders emphasize that God has power to help his people, the churches grow. Churches where leaders do not emphasize this shrink and die.

(This is a paraphrase of an article that I read a few months ago and I can't track the info down.)

In one way, it makes perfect sense, people want God's help if they can get it, even for selfish reasons. But if God can't or won't help, then why not sleep late and go to church next week.

On the other hand, all the other things we focus on such as prayer meetings, youth groups, choirs, preaching, Bible study, etc. have limited impact. That's surprising.

What do you all think about that?

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Kitchen staff, a paid volunteer coordinator, an active welcoming process, according to research. All along the lines you mentioned.

7 Keys to Church Growth – Smart Church Management

I remember reading a blog entry of a megachurch pastor in Philadelphia. His advice to smaller churches was to stop insisting on small groups. He said those groups form naturally anyway, but forcing people together who might otherwise be incompatible might be counter productive. I don't understand the concerns about youth group. Many young parents specifically choose churches based on the youth ministry, at least in my neck of the woods

Peter J Barban said:

Research shows that when church leaders emphasize that God has power to help his people, the churches grow. Churches where leaders do not emphasize this shrink and die.

(This is a paraphrase of an article that I read a few months ago and I can't track the info down.)

In one way, it makes perfect sense, people want God's help if they can get it, even for selfish reasons. But if God can't or won't help, then why not sleep late and go to church next week.

On the other hand, all the other things we focus on such as prayer meetings, youth groups, choirs, preaching, Bible study, etc. have limited impact. That's surprising.

What do you all think about that?

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I think the author is only looking at church growth in the USA and is only considering numbers.

Yes, people want to listen to what they like to hear and the preacher telling them God will make them healthy, wealthy and happy all sounds “good”.

Telling people it will be extremely challenging, you must count the cost, you have a cross to bear, your reward is with heaven, your family may disown you, there will be lots for you to do, repeating stories of people just like them who suffered for the cause and telling them they might go to jail, only works well in places of severe persecution, but it does result in rapid growth.

The “problem” with a health and wealth gospel is it promotes selfishness and not a commitment to following in the hard but rewarding steps of Christ all the way to the cross.

bling said:

Yes, people want to listen to what they like to hear and the preacher telling them God will make them healthy, wealthy and happy all sounds “good”.

Telling people it will be extremely challenging, you must count the cost, you have a cross to bear, your reward is with heaven, your family may disown you, there will be lots for you to do, repeating stories of people just like them who suffered for the cause and telling them they might go to jail, only works well in places of severe persecution, but it does result in rapid growth.

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They need to hear both, that God has power to help his people and that they will endure trouble. People can endure a great deal if they believe that there's a God up there who is on their side and can help them through it, and they can handle a lot more if they know that the trouble is coming.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

They need to hear both, that God has power to help his people and that they will endure trouble. People can endure a great deal if they believe that there's a God up there who is on their side and can help them through it, and they can handle a lot more if they know that the trouble is coming.

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We need to give the complete message is very true.
I did not say it, but from my knowledge of the unregistered Church in China and my working with Christians in prison is the fact they will be sacrificially Loved and supported by God and others through everything they go through.
The truth is not an easy sell, while some churches in the West are presenting an easy sell only (it is all a good and wonderful life to be a Christian).
I tend to look for and teach those who are burdened by their sins and want to experience forgiveness at any cost.

Peter J Barban said:

On the other hand, all the other things we focus on such as prayer meetings, youth groups, choirs, preaching, Bible study, etc. have limited impact. That's surprising.

What do you all think about that?

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I'm inclined to think that it is more a matter of the content of the message, both in the sermon and elsewise. Bringing a Biblical message of hope rather than fire and damnation or political propaganda seems to be more effective at reaching the people.

Peter J Barban said:

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In one way, it makes perfect sense, people want God's help if they can get it, even for selfish reasons. But if God can't or won't help, then why not sleep late and go to church next week.
...

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On the other hand, when things are well, people reject God and begin to think it is because of them that things go smoothly. But when difficulties come, people come to God to complain or to ask help. It is sad that people often take credit of good things to themselves, not to God, but blame is almost always for God.

Albion said:

I'm inclined to think that it is more a matter of the content of the message, both in the sermon and elsewise. Bringing a Biblical message of hope rather than fire and damnation or political propaganda seems to be more effective at reaching the people.

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What about challenging people?

1213 said:

On the other hand, when things are well, people reject God and begin to think it is because of them that things go smoothly. But when difficulties come, people come to God to complain or to ask help. It is sad that people often take credit of good things to themselves, not to God, but blame is almost always for God.

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Churches have grown rapidly under pretty severe persecution.

bling said:

What about challenging people?

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Probably depends on what the challenge is.

Peter J Barban said:

These persecuted churches must be convinced that God will empower them, or it would be too easy to quit the faith.

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One of the members of a small but growing house church visited Hong Kong and watch some Televangelist talk about how being a Christian makes you wealthy and went home sad thinking they were not as good of a Christian as those in America, because they were poor. I had lots of explaining to do and was sad she had to hear such garbage. They are still poor, but growing rapidly.

Albion said:

Probably depends on what the challenge is.

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What should we challenge Christians with?

bling said:

What should we challenge Christians with?

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The reason I asked that was because the point I made earlier didn't rule out challenges, but only the content of what a lot of churches are putting out these days (and losing members). Almost any Scriptural topic can be put to the people as a challenge, it seems to me.

Albion said:

The reason I asked that was because the point I made earlier didn't rule out challenges, but only the content of what a lot of churches are putting out these days (and losing members). Almost any Scriptural topic can be put to the people as a challenge, it seems to me.

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OK

Peter J Barban said:

Bling, if it's not a sensitive issue, how should the churches in Hong Kong respond to the present crisis with Beijing? And what should they expect the power of God to accomplish?

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I really know little about the Churches in Hong Kong all my friends and my two daughter-in-law relatives are in Communist China and Taiwan. I should meet with several from Communist China next week and will ask them. Several friends four years ago were working with the Communist and they thought the Government would open up to a nondenominational training program for the registered Church preachers and wanted my input, but I really did not trust the Communist (long story) and trust them even less now. The Communist will push for more control of Hong Kong, but it will not be taken over completely (to much money involved).
I believe the persecution of Christians in Communist China has worked to the benefit of their rapid growth, so if severe persecution of the churches in Hong Kong were to start, there would definitely be a reduction in the uncommitted, but it could wind up growing with just committed members.

The draw is God helps - few examples:

"Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them." Exo 3:9. He delivered them.

Couples who wanted children included: "Isaac intreated the Lord for his wife, because she was barren: and the Lord was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived." Gen 25

After their homes were destroyed and their families taken, David encouraged himself in The Lord then he asks "And David enquired at the Lord, saying, Shall I pursue after this troop? shall I overtake them? And he answered him, Pursue: for thou shalt surely overtake them, and without fail recover all." I Sam 30

The message that God helps would be in the prayer meetings, youth groups, choirs, preaching, Bible study, etc Helping during trials and tribulations John 16:33. The church includes local assemblies "...where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18 That promise is very caring. He always has a purpose in everything He does.