The Hug

Oldmantook · Aug 11, 2019

Persis said:
Was in a Pastor's office for the 1st time. Never met him beforehand. i started crying and tried to hold back the tears because of disturbing events in a sad occasion which was causing unbearable stress. I was feeling so upset! The Pastor did not know about it. I simply asked him for a tissue to wipe my eyes in which he got up and came back from behind (the door was behind me) and to the side and gave me a tissue. I took the tissue and said thank you. All of a sudden I felt his arms try to wrap around me to console me from behind, when I was sitting in the chair. I was shocked because I did not see this coming, and just felt him touching me all of a sudden. I was startled and immediately shook him off with vigor. It was my only reaction to the shock and to the displeasure of not being ready or even happy to receive the hug since I didn't know him. Later as I looked at the event I still think it is really strange way to hug someone. It's never happened to me before. I realize as well that since hugging is such a personal thing, not everyone wants to be hugged, and they save them for the special close people in their lives. What I want to know is if the good people here on this forum both male and female, would have found this offensive? I still feel uncomfortable about it. Thank you .

Trust your instincts. That is inappropriate. No one hugs a stranger or acquaintance from behind. Take someone with you as a witness and confront him and if he denies it report him to the elders. If he is a serial offender you may spare someone else from a similar experience

Oldmantook · Aug 11, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
"Offensive"? No. But bothersome, no doubt.

Still, my hunch is your pastor was simply trying to be helpful and comforting. I'd just as soon that people keep their hands to themselves but it really seems like no harm was intended. If it was me, I'd let it slide... with a request that they not hug me.

Do you "hug" people from behind that you don't know or hardly know??

thecolorsblend · Aug 11, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Do you "hug" people from behind that you don't know or hardly know??

(1) Comments in these threads should be directed to the OP; not other members.

(2) If you insist on violating that rule, can you at least read my posts before you reply? Thx!

renniks · Aug 11, 2019

Persis said:
Okay thanks. You are respectful and I believe you, so what can I say other than I think it's great that you would have been fine about it, but you are not in the consensus of people that have replied back to me nor what comes up when searching on the subject.

Would it be correct for me to assume then that you would not have reacted like I did, and perhaps enjoyed and welcomed the hug from the back which was not only totally unexpected from a stranger, but just totally wierd? Do you not think it was wierd especially from a Pastor? How many hugs have you received from the back while you were sitting in a chair having no clue it was coming?(I was dabbing my eyes with the tissue he gave me so I was even more blind). Do you not believe that people have a right and a choice to personal space? Do you not believe in respect of others and how others are different? Is this only for places like workplaces? Remember that although he did not touch any private parts of mine, it was because I fought him off. Since he was going for that area, was I supposed to curb my instinct and wait until he did touch me, for me to find it offensive? Foremost it was a reaction out of shock. I was startled. Would you not have been startled? I did not know him from Adam, and there was no one else there. I'd really like to know your point of view, and am genuinely and sincerely curious how you would have handled it? This is very interesting to me. Thanks.

If you thought he was " going for that area" your op did not reflect it.

Persis said:
Okay thanks. You are respectful and I believe you, so what can I say other than I think it's great that you would have been fine about it, but you are not in the consensus of people that have replied back to me nor what comes up when searching on the subject.

Would it be correct for me to assume then that you would not have reacted like I did, and perhaps enjoyed and welcomed the hug from the back which was not only totally unexpected from a stranger, but just totally wierd? Do you not think it was wierd especially from a Pastor? How many hugs have you received from the back while you were sitting in a chair having no clue it was coming?(I was dabbing my eyes with the tissue he gave me so I was even more blind). Do you not believe that people have a right and a choice to personal space? Do you not believe in respect of others and how others are different? Is this only for places like workplaces? Remember that although he did not touch any private parts of mine, it was because I fought him off. Since he was going for that area, was I supposed to curb my instinct and wait until he did touch me, for me to find it offensive? Foremost it was a reaction out of shock. I was startled. Would you not have been startled? I did not know him from Adam, and there was no one else there. I'd really like to know your point of view, and am genuinely and sincerely curious how you would have handled it? This is very interesting to me. Thanks.

Your op said you thought he was trying to console you. Now you have totally changed your tone. I have no idea what to think.

Oldmantook · Aug 11, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
(1) Comments in these threads should be directed to the OP; not other members.

(2) If you insist on violating that rule, can you at least read my posts before you reply? Thx!

I think i read your post and you stated your opinion which was that hugging from behind appears okay. Am I wrong? Yes or no. I asked you a simple question.

thecolorsblend · Aug 11, 2019

Oldmantook said:
I think i read your post and you stated your opinion which was that hugging from behind appears okay. Am I wrong? Yes or no. I asked you a simple question.

*sigh*

thecolorsblend said:
No, I don't want to be hugged that way. Honestly, I think people are way too touchy-feely these days. If you ask me, people should keep their hands to themselves.

Having said that, my opinion isn't the only valid one. Some people see no harm in hugging others. I choose to interpret their actions as well-meaning. It's off-putting but it's still well-meaning. So when someone moves in for a hug on me, if I can't stiff-arm them then I just ask them not to hug me.

I wasn't in the room when you got your unwanted hug. And I have no way to know if the pastor was trying to be weird with you or if he was just trying to make you feel better. Either way, I think the wisest policy would be to assume the best of his motivations but politely ask him to not hug you because you're not comfortable with that.

Hopefully that will be the end of it and then you won't have to be bothered with this in the future.

Oldmantook · Aug 11, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
*sigh*

*double sigh*

Persis · Aug 11, 2019

renniks said:
If you thought he was " going for that area" your op did not reflect it.
No, but factually he was going to that area if he was hugging me from behind. If it happened to you, would you not have instinctively felt uncomfortable esp. being a woman? Are you a woman, i should ask first.? When it happened to me.. I didn't have any words of announcement like that, it was fight or flight...

Your op said you thought he was trying to console you. Now you have totally changed your tone. I have no idea what to think.

No i haven't changed my tone at all -- however, maybe it would have been better had I recommended you read all of my posts as i grappled with the issue in my discussions with others. Of course there are so many posts of mine in this thread, so that would have been too bold of me to ask you to do that. i know how time consuming this all is.

The best explanation I can give you is that it 'appeared' that he was trying to console me, by him offering me a tissue and then offering me 'the hug'. Afterall he is a Pastor so of all people who should have bad will? But in reality, who knows, maybe he really was trying to do that or maybe he was thinking something otherwise? And its just so very feasible to wonder becausse his actions were so strange, so really inappropriate esp as a Pastor, that it caused me to question his motives. I did get a strange wierd creepy vibe from him and I instinctively shook him off. So his inappropriate actions caused me to question his intentions afterwards in more of a verbal form. I hope that helps. I think that some of this is reading between the lines, and just reading some of my other comments. Thank you for taking the time to write me again, I really appreciate it.

Persis · Aug 11, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Trust your instincts. That is inappropriate. No one hugs a stranger or acquaintance from behind. Take someone with you as a witness and confront him and if he denies it report him to the elders. If he is a serial offender you may spare someone else from a similar experience

Thank you.. very helpful for me ! You're a man, right? It is very important to me to hear from men too, because you know this could have happened to a man, as well, and it would be interesting to hear what he thought, about it. Of course if I was a man maybe the Pastor would have hugged me differently as I am sure men console each other in different ways .

Blade · Aug 11, 2019

"offensive" No.....'uncomfortable".. maybe.. yet I would tell him.. talk to him not anyone else.. This is one way gossip starts. I am almost sure if you bring it up.. he will say sorry.. end of it.

Persis · Aug 11, 2019

[

Blade said:
"offensive" No.....'uncomfortable".. maybe.. yet I would tell him.. talk to him not anyone else.. This is one way gossip starts. I am almost sure if you bring it up.. he will say sorry.. end of it.

I never had any intentions of talking to someone else about this, and on this forum since I am anonymous and so is he, this is not considered gossiping. I am trying to get help.
I am not optimistic like you, however. There is no proof. I don't understand how you could be but you have a right to be. Not only do you not know him, I don't either. I actually know zero about him. I will proceed with caution and will only bring it up to him if there is a real opportunity that feels safe and right. Being that I am at a funeral reception there will not be any alone time nor do I want to have any alone time with him. If we speak it will be amongst the crowd and at such it would have to be quick and matter of fact. After then, I will no longer see him anymore so for me talking to him about it is not so important as me finding relief that I dont have to be embarrassed by my reaction to him. In a sense, that is where my healing is coming from. Thank you for your reply, I love all these angles presented to me as it really helps me develop a sense of where I want to go with this. I really appreciate it and your time.

Oldmantook · Aug 11, 2019

Blade said:
"offensive" No.....'uncomfortable".. maybe.. yet I would tell him.. talk to him not anyone else.. This is one way gossip starts. I am almost sure if you bring it up.. he will say sorry.. end of it.

Scripture gives us the instructions so no need to go by our own opinion. Matt 18
15And if your brother sins against you,b go reprove him, between you and him alone. If he will hear you, you have gained your brother. 16But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘every word may be strengthened upon the testimony of two or three witnesses. 17And if he fails to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he fails to listen to even to the church, let him be to you as the pagan and the tax collector.

Persis · Aug 11, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Scripture gives us the instructions so no need to go by our own opinion. Matt 18
15And if your brother sins against you,b go reprove him, between you and him alone. If he will hear you, you have gained your brother. 16But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘every word may be strengthened upon the testimony of two or three witnesses. 17And if he fails to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he fails to listen to even to the church, let him be to you as the pagan and the tax collector.

did you mean this comment for me?

Oldmantook · Aug 11, 2019

Persis said:
did you mean this comment for me?

I think it was in reply to someone else but it sounds applicable to your situation.

Oldmantook · Aug 11, 2019

Persis said:
Thank you.. very helpful for me ! You're a man, right? It is very important to me to hear from men too, because you know this could have happened to a man, as well, and it would be interesting to hear what he thought, about it. Of course if I was a man maybe the Pastor would have hugged me differently as I am sure men console each other in different ways .

Your're welcome. I'm a man and the only person in my life whom I've ever hugged from behind is my wife. You would think that in this day and age of sexual lawsuits, a pastor would be especially careful how he relates to others of the opposite sex so that makes it even more suspect in my opinion. I was also a pastor on staff for a few years and I would never have done what he did. If I saw a fellow staff member do what he did, i would certainly confront him, but that's just me. Peace be with you.

Truthkeeper · Aug 11, 2019

Persis said:
Was in a Pastor's office for the 1st time. Never met him beforehand. i started crying and tried to hold back the tears because of disturbing events in a sad occasion which was causing unbearable stress. I was feeling so upset! The Pastor did not know about it. I simply asked him for a tissue to wipe my eyes in which he got up and came back from behind (the door was behind me) and to the side and gave me a tissue. I took the tissue and said thank you. All of a sudden I felt his arms try to wrap around me to console me from behind, when I was sitting in the chair. I was shocked because I did not see this coming, and just felt him touching me all of a sudden. I was startled and immediately shook him off with vigor. It was my only reaction to the shock and to the displeasure of not being ready or even happy to receive the hug since I didn't know him. Later as I looked at the event I still think it is really strange way to hug someone. It's never happened to me before. I realize as well that since hugging is such a personal thing, not everyone wants to be hugged, and they save them for the special close people in their lives. What I want to know is if the good people here on this forum both male and female, would have found this offensive? I still feel uncomfortable about it. Thank you .

I would've definitely found this offensive; too often a few Pastors may think us females make appointments for "other" reasons, but you can usually tell by what they say or how they look at you. tsk. No pastor should really counsel alone with a female. The Last meeting I had with a Pastor, it was a large office with sofa, chairs TV, Lamp tables, wall library, coffee counter/sink with the the Pastor's desk and study area on the opposite side of the room while the Exec assistant sat by the TV and fireplace on their Tablet. It's okay to say "i'm not comfortable with being consoled physically if I dont know you, with all due respect"

Persis · Aug 11, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Your're welcome. I'm a man and the only person in my life whom I've ever hugged from behind is my wife. You would think that in this day and age of sexual lawsuits, a pastor would be especially careful how he relates to others of the opposite sex so that makes it even more suspect in my opinion. I was also a pastor on staff for a few years and I would never have done what he did. If I saw a fellow staff member do what he did, i would certainly confront him, but that's just me. Peace be with you.

Thank you then for sharing that, as your opinion then as a Pastor holds it weight in gold!! I am very grateful for your reply. Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Persis · Aug 11, 2019

Truthkeeper said:
I would've definitely found this offensive; too often a few Pastors may think us females make appointments for "other" reasons, but you can usually tell by what they say or how they look at you. tsk. No pastor should really counsel alone with a female. The Last meeting I had with a Pastor, it was a large office with sofa, chairs TV, Lamp tables, wall library, coffee counter/sink with the the Pastor's desk and study area on the opposite side of the room while the Exec assistant sat by the TV and fireplace on their Tablet. It's okay to say "i'm not comfortable with being consoled physically if I dont know you, with all due respect"

Thank you so much. I am very grateful for your reply along with all the other replies, I just feel just really comforted and understood and no longer feel alienated with the experience. God Bless you.

St_Worm2 · Aug 11, 2019

Persis said:
I think he did know how it made me feel, by me pushing him away with such vigor. hehe I think he both saw and felt I was super angry, and not wanting his touch at that moment. I think I made it very clear to the point that I felt so embarrassed afterwards, wondering what he was thinking about me. I was thinking that he maybe thought i was a crazy person. However, the more I thought it about it afterwards, I realized that he did wrong and not me, and it just got stronger as the days went by. Validation on this forum was what I needed to process the whole situation correctly. I appreciate your response, and you are right. If I see any chance or opening where it feels right to approach him about it, I will tell him in a respectful and matter of fact way. I just want to make sure that I don't tell him because I still feel bad and I am defending myself, because at this point I come to, I don't feel I owe him any explanation. Only he does. I suppose if I need more clarity on the issue to really know the truth for my own wellbeing, especially in that he can tell me that he meant no harm, then I will gladly do it. It just may turn out though that he dismisses me and looks shocked, at which point I dont know if that would just be more damaging to me. It's really a hard call.

You'd be surprised. I've been blown away by people who had no idea that they'd said something to me that I found highly offensive.

You need to do what you feel comfortable doing, of course, but I think the thing that God wants us Christians to be are His peacemakers .. Matthew 5:9. Reconciling with someone who has hurt us and then restoring our relationship with them is rarely pleasant, but just sweeping the existing problem(s) under the carpet is worse, because it 1. does nothing (at best) or 2. creates further/lasting harm! Though it can seem difficult, painful, or even frightening at first, trusting God and choosing to do the right thing/choosing to do His will for us in Christ, always seems to work out to be the best thing to do, at least in the end anyway

As Pastor Sinclair Ferguson says, "be obedient, even when you do not know where obedience may lead you." :preach:

And if something like this ever happens to you again (with this pastor or with someone else), I'd recommend telling them that they have made you feel uncomfortable on the spot! That way you get it all out in the open and taken care of immediately.

Persis said:
You are so right, he should have had his secretary at least near by. We were all alone in the office building as far as I know.

Yikes .. for you AND for him/his ministry too! Next time you meet, I'd make sure that someone is going to be there, even if that means taking a friend or family member along with you (if there is going to be a next time, that is).

--David

Snoder · Aug 12, 2019

Persis said:
Was in a Pastor's office for the 1st time. Never met him beforehand. i started crying and tried to hold back the tears because of disturbing events in a sad occasion which was causing unbearable stress. I was feeling so upset! The Pastor did not know about it. I simply asked him for a tissue to wipe my eyes in which he got up and came back from behind (the door was behind me) and to the side and gave me a tissue. I took the tissue and said thank you. All of a sudden I felt his arms try to wrap around me to console me from behind, when I was sitting in the chair. I was shocked because I did not see this coming, and just felt him touching me all of a sudden. I was startled and immediately shook him off with vigor. It was my only reaction to the shock and to the displeasure of not being ready or even happy to receive the hug since I didn't know him. Later as I looked at the event I still think it is really strange way to hug someone. It's never happened to me before. I realize as well that since hugging is such a personal thing, not everyone wants to be hugged, and they save them for the special close people in their lives. What I want to know is if the good people here on this forum both male and female, would have found this offensive? I still feel uncomfortable about it. Thank you .

That was completely unprofessional and inappropriate to the situation. Does this guy belong to any kind of denomination or have any kind of degree that is accredited? His actions demonstrate a serious lack of training and education. You don't initiate hugs, especially if you don't know them. You especially don't do it to someone that is crying.

The appropriate and professional response would be to sit and listen. He should have been non-responsive (if you said something shocking, he doesn't react) and sitting, listening, and asking you questions only when necessarily. He should avoid the urge to 'comfort' you by words, but especially by actions and especially by a sneak hug. What he did showed that he had NO IDEA what he was doing.

Your reaction was absolutely justified. That's not my opinion. Those are basic pastoral skills that are shared among all denominations and Christians traditions that are professionally trained.

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