Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

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jgr

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Anyone who descends from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Read more about it here:

Jewish and Christian: Can It Be? • Jews for Jesus

Unsurprisingly, no reference to Romans 9:6-8.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one Israel shall be saved.

Romans 11
26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
 
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Contenders Edge

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Cite one who does so loudly and courageously (and repeatedly).



You were referring to Zechariah. Where does he quantify the Gentile death toll?





“Cite one who does so loudly and courageously (and repeatedly).”





Take some time to research prophecy and you will find some who teach it.

But they also teach that the vast majority of the world will also perish at the same time. The Jews are not being singled out.


“You were referring to Zechariah. Where does he quantify the Gentile death toll?”


Isaiah says that a time will come when a man will be more rare than gold (Is. 13:12) and clearly, many people die from the various judgments and calamities foretold in the book of Revelation. Furthermore, not every nation will enter into the Kingdom that Christ will set up upon the earth when He returns. Zechariah himself may not mention all of this but that is why we must look at the full counsel of scripture in order to receive as much clarity as we can on any given matter.
 
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Contenders Edge

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Unsurprisingly, no reference to Romans 9:6-8.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one Israel shall be saved.

Romans 11
26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


But when the nation of Israel turns to Christ, will they then not all be saved? I bet you haven't even taken the time to read the source link provided.
 
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pasifika

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Are you trying to say earthly Jerusalem will survive the destruction of this planet, which is found in 2 Peter 3:10-13.

Either Peter was wrong, or you are wrong.


.
Hello, yes this world will be destroyed by fire in 2 Peter 3:10...but what is destruction by fire looks like?

Jude 7...in a similar way Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immortality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire...

So the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were is there, but Sodom and Gomorrah and it surrounding towns all turned to ash...

2 Peter 2:6..."if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them as an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly....
 
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Contenders Edge

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Still no Scripture for "they" joint-heirs.

What identifies a Jew?


You obviously haven't bothered to read the source link I provided. I at least took the time to read yours.
 
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keras

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So the heavenly Jerusalem is Not His home?
It is where Jesus resides for now.
What it is not; is our home. We never go there, after the Millennium, it comes to us.
 
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keras

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Awaiting indisputable proof that we are all descendants of Abraham.
Don't bother waiting.
jgr is stuck on the fact that according the mathematics, we are all descendants of Abraham. Which may or may not be 100% correct.

What jgr and most people don't see, is how God chose a people and He has watched them thru the ages. Amos 9:9 and many other verses prove this.
The Jewish people are a part of the Israelites, they are known to us today, but the majority of the Israelites, the ten Northern tribes, remain scattered among the nations and unknown to the world and to themselves.
Actually it is easy to know who the real Israelites are; they are the faithful Christians. Jesus' mission to the lost sheep of Israel, WAS successful.
 
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pasifika

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It is where Jesus resides for now.
What it is not; is our home. We never go there, after the Millennium, it comes to us.
Yes, God is coming to dwell among his people here on earth in the promise land... Ezekiel 37:25-28...mount zion in the promise land is the place where He will pitch His dwelling Place...
 
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BABerean2

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Hello, yes this world will be destroyed by fire in 2 Peter 3:10...but what is destruction by fire looks like?

Jude 7...in a similar way Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immortality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire...

So the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were is there, but Sodom and Gomorrah and it surrounding towns all turned to ash...

2 Peter 2:6..."if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them as an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly....


Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

.
 
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jgr

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But when the nation of Israel turns to Christ, will they then not all be saved? I bet you haven't even taken the time to read the source link provided.

You've identified Israel as bloodline i.e. children of the flesh. Paul explicitly excludes them as the children of God if they are not children of the promise.

I read it and saw no Romans reference therein.
 
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jgr

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It is clearly implied and what was Peter commanded concerning the vision He was given Acts chapter 11?

There is no mention of health edicts.

If their elimination is "clearly implied", then the elimination of land restoration is at least equally "clearly implied", and in fact necessitated, by the definition of Will and Testament, and by the associated Book of Hebrews scriptures.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Contenders Edge said:
God has stated that He would not make a full end to the promised-land. (Jer. 4:27)

If He said that He will not make a full end to it, then it will endure, even as the present heavens and earth pass away in the coming fire.
BABerean2 said:
Are you trying to say earthly Jerusalem will survive the destruction of this planet, which is found in 2 Peter 3:10-13.

Either Peter was wrong, or you are wrong.
pasifika said:
Hello, yes this world will be destroyed by fire in 2 Peter 3:10...but what is destruction by fire looks like?

Jude 7...in a similar way Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immortality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire...

So the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were is there, but Sodom and Gomorrah and it surrounding towns all turned to ash...

2 Peter 2:6..."if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them as an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly....
Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

.
Hello BAB
A non Zionist Futurist view of the NH and NE:
[I will not be posting much on the Eschatology board]

Jer 3:16

In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the LORD, “people will no longer say,
‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.' It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made
.
Rev 11:19
And opened was the sanctuary of God in the heaven, and there was seen the ark of His covenant in His sanctuary, and there did come lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT

I am putting this topic up on the CT board because of the controversial nature of it and that it may evolve into the realm of what is called "full preterism/realized eschatology" which can only be discussed on this board.

With that aside, I would like to put up the Preterist perspective from a Preterist site.

I am of the Covenantle view, of both the Olivet Discourse and Revelation, and will explain more about that was we get further along with this thread.

For now, here are a few Preterist views
[of course, both partial and full futurists can also post their views
FUTURISTS
(Virtually No Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 & Revelation in 1st C. - Types Only ; Also Included are "Higher Critics" Not Associated With Any Particular Eschatology)]
=================

The New Heavens and Earth | Study Archive @ PreteristArchive.com - The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

New Heavens and Earth
Global, Covenantal, or Personal?

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens, and a new earth." II Peter 3:13

John Brown (1853)
" 'Heaven and earth passing,' understood literally, is the dissolution of the present system of the universe, and the period when that is to take place, is called the 'end of the world.' But a person at all familiar with the phraseology of the Old Testament Scriptures, knows that the dissolution of the Mosaic economy, and the establishment of the Christian, is often spoken of as the removing of the old earth and heavens, and the creation of a new earth and new heavens" (vol. 1, p. 170)

"It appears, then, that is Scripture be the best interpreter of Scripture, we have in the Old Testament a key to the interpretation of the prophecies in the New. The same symbolism is found in both, and the imagery of Isaiah, Ezekiel, and the other prophets helps us to understand the imagery of St. Matthew, St. Peter, and St. John. As the dissolution of the material world is not necessary to the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, neither is it necessary to the accomplishment of the predictions of the New Testament. But though symbols are metaphorical expressions, they are not unmeaning. It is not necessary to allegorise them, and find a corresponding equivalent for every trope; it is sufficient to regard the imagery as employed to heighten the sublimity of the prediction and to clothe it with impressiveness and grandeur. There are, at the same time, a true propriety and an underlying reality in the symbols of prophecy. The moral and spiritual facts which they represent, the social and ecumenical changes which they typify, could not be adequately set forth by language less majestic and sublime. There is reason for believing that an inadequate apprehension of the real grandeur and significance of such events as the destruction of Jerusalem and the abrogation of the Jewish economy lies at the root of that system of interpretation which maintains that nothing answering to the symbols of the New Testament prophecy has ever taken place. Hence the uncritical and unscriptural figments of double senses, and double, triple, and multiple fulfillments of prophecy. That physical disturbances in nature and extraordinary phenomena in the heavens and in the earth may have accompanied the expiring throes of the Jewish dispensation we are not prepared to deny. It seems to us highly probable that such things were. But the literal fulfillment of the symbols is not essential to the verification of prophecy, which is abundantly proved to be true by the recorded facts of history." (vol. i. p.200).

=========================
Isaiah 51:15-16 | Hebrews 12:25-29

Another example of "heaven and earth" being referred to the Covenant World of Israel, and not literal creation, is Isaiah 51:16, "And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Notice that God is speaking to Israel. He says he gave them his law, the Old Covenant, the same law Jesus is speaking about in Matthew 5:17-18, to establish heaven and lay the foundation of the earth!

Clearly God is not saying he gave the Old Covenant to Israel to create literal heaven and earth! Material creation existed long before Israel was ever given the Old Covenant.

Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in your mouth and covered you in the shadow of my hand, establishing the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, 'You are my people.'

Who is God speaking to in Isaiah 1:1-2, "…Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth." The physical creation?

No, he is speaking to Israel. And who is the witness in Deuteronomy 4:26, "I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day"? Physical creation or Old Covenant Israel?
======================
 
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jgr

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jgr is stuck on the fact that according the mathematics, we are all descendants of Abraham. Which may or may not be 100% correct.

The original study was published 20 years ago. It has never yet been proven incorrect.

But anyone is welcome to try.
 
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claninja

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But the blessing of being given the cookie is not necessarily lost to the child forever. If the child changes his mind and cleans his room like his father told him to do, he can still be rewarded the cookie.


In the same way, the Israelites have not lost out on the earthly blessings that they were promised as a reward of faithfulness and devotion to God, yet those promises did not cease with the Old Covenant. They simply will meet their fulfillment in the New Covenant as a testimony of God’s faithfulness in keeping His promises even when we are not always faithful to Him.


If the agreement between the the father and child remained the same (if child cleans room, father gives a cookie), then I would agree with you.


But as we see with Israel, God found fault with them as they could not keep their end of the agreement and so through Jeremiah, He prophesied of a new covenant (hebrews 8:7-8).


And so if the child does not clean his room, the father does not need to give the child a cookie. The child then continues in disobedience and will not clean the room, so the father ends this agreement and promises a new agreement. IF the child cleans the room, the father will give his child a new video game system.


Now when the child listens and cleans the room under the new promise, does the child receive a video game system or a cookie?


But now those blessings are given upon acceptance of the New Covenant instead of the Old.


the materialistic blessings of the old covenant are bestowed upon the Jews who come to Christ? That doesn't make sense if the old covenant was made obsolete and taken away (Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 10:9).


The promises that God has made under the New Covenant do not cancel out those promises made beforehand. Instead, the Jews receive a double portion in that along with their earthly blessings receive also the blessings that everyone else in Christ receives as well.


Scripture is very clear the new covenant is NOT LIKE the old covenant (hebrews 8:9). Scripture is very clear the new covenant has better promises (hebrews 8:6). Scripture is very clear the old covenant was made obsolete (Hebrews 8:13).



However, your argument that the old covenant promises are still in effect means the new covenant is like the old covenant. Your argument that the old covenant promises are still in effect means they co exist with better promises and are thus worse promises. Your argument that the old covenant promises are still in effect means the old covenant is till in effect, which goes against scripture.


The Church is not a nation in the same sense that Israel is in that the Church is made part of an eternal Kingdom into which the earthly nation of Israel is destined to be made part of as well.


The body of Christ is Israel. It consists of Jews and grafted in gentiles who were made one under Christ. Anyone who is in Christ is Abraham's offspring.



The prophecies of Ezekiel and Hosea are not entirely about the same things in that Ezekiel focuses specifically on the nation of Israel. Hosea, while focused mainly on Israel, invites the Gentiles to be reconciled with their Maker as well. Hosea is not the only set of Old Testament scriptures that expresses God’s desire for all people, Jew and Gentile, to know Him and experience His love and mercy.


I disgaree. Both Hosea and Ezekiel mention the house of Israel and Judah coming together under one leader.





But what other nation, other than Israel, has been displaced, scattered, and then again restored?


Greece.


You forget that not all the returning Jews had yet set their hearts to seek the Lord as is also mentioned in the book of Nehemiah and even more notably so, the prophets Zechariah and Malachi.


Let's try not to forget that not all Israel is Israel, thus the remnant of Israel is all of Jacob.


Micah 2:12 I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob; I will gather the remnant of Israel;


Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.


None of the Israelites were ousted from the Covenant. They left the Covenant. If the northern kingdom had been divorced of God, it is because they divorced themselves from Him first. Nevertheless, He has left the door open for they and the rest of the Jews to be reconciled to Him.


They never became as Gentiles. They still retained their identity.

.


I disagree.


It was prophesied that Ephraim (another name for the house of Israel) would become a multitude of gentiles

Genesis 48:19 But his father refused. “I know, my son, I know!” he said. “He too shall become a people, and he too shall be great; nevertheless, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his offspring shall become a multitude of gentiles”


We can see it was God who sent the northern kingdom away with a decree of divorce.

Jeremiah 3:8 She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce.


It was the northern kingdom that would no longer be God's people and God no longer their God

Hosea 1:6-9 Gomer again conceived and gave birth to a daughter, and the LORD said to Hosea, “Name her Lo-ruhamah,cfor I will no longer have compassion on the house of Israel, that I should ever forgive them. Yet I will have compassion on the house of Judah, and I will deliver them—not by bow or sword or war, not by horses and cavalry, but by the LORD their God.” After she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, Gomer conceived and gave birth to a son. And the LORD said, “Name him Lo-ammi,d for you are not My people, and I am not your God.e


It is the northern kingdom that mixes with the nations.

Hosea 7:8 Ephraim mixes with the nations; Ephraim is an unturned cake.


Thus by God divorcing the northern kingdom, he scattered them and mixed them with nations. and therefore descendants of the northern kingdom became a multitude of gentiles by the time of the 1st advent of Christ (700 years post Assyrian exile).


THis is substantiated by Paul quoting hosea 1:10 and 2:23 as being fulfilled with the inclusion of the GENTILES with the jews in the vessels of mercy (romans 9:24-26).


I would not call the first century the generation in which the hearts of the Jews had undergone a spiritual circumcision. Most of the people of Israel ended up rejecting their Messiah and remained uncircumcised in their hearts.


So you believe true Israel are those who reject Christ?



I do not because Israel was punished for their own sins and not for the sins of anyone else. Christ on the other hand suffered for the sins of all mankind and yet Himself was sinless which He had to be in order to be that perfect sacrifice required for the forgiveness of the sins of those who place their trust in the sacrifice made by Christ on their behalf in order that they might be saved from damnation and reconciled with their Maker.


Again, shadow. Christ became sin, who knew no sin, for us. He became a curse for us.


Christ redeemed Israel from the curses of the law by becoming a curse (Galatians 3:13). As dueteronomy states, it is after the curses were poured out that Israel would repent and return to the Lord and thus God would restore them from captivity (deuteronomy 30:1-5). That is the shadow.


After Christ became the curse and thus redeemed Israel from the curses of the law (Galatians 3:13), Israel began to repent (acts 2:41), and were set free (Galatians 5:1).

That is the reality.









Applied as it may be in that sense, Ezekiel’s prophecy was written in a way meant to be taken literally.


All scripture points to Christ and all promises of God find their yes in Christ. Ezekiel 37 prophesies that the house of Israel and the house of Judah would be gathered together in their land and would become one nation under one king.


This literally is fulfilled. Israel (descendants of both houses) did return to the land following the Babylonian exile (1 chronicles 9:1-3). God was manifested in the flesh through Christ following the return from exile. Through the ministry, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ to the Father, Israel and the gentiles began to be gathered as one people under one head/shepherd who is Christ (John 11:52, ephesians 2:15).


But the promised blessings were not canceled alongside the Old Covenant. If that were the case, God would be breaking promises that He has made which is why, in order to show Himself faithful in keeping His promises, (Heb. 10:23) He must fulfill all promises and all declarations He has made exactly as He has said.


The old covenant was a conditional agreement. If Israel obeyed, God would bless. We cannot separate the promises from the covenant. If the covenant is obsolete so are the conditional promises.


And why do you think that is? Should that in and of itself not serve as evidence of God’s promise that He would not make a full end of His people or the nation of Israel?


Who are God's people? Those obedient to the son or those that reject the son?


Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.”


You have misquoted Paul in your statement. Paul did say that a man can be a Jew outwardly, but that does not make him one spiritually.


I did not misquote. Paul literally states a man IS NOT A JEW BECAUSE HE IS ONE OUTWARDLY. Paul clearly states a man is a jew because HE IS ONE INWARDLY.


There are passages in Ezekiel chapters 40-47 that at least indicate that this is the case as far as the forth coming millennial reign is concerned. The New Testament does not have as much to say about the Millennial Reign as the Old Testament does. The most we read about the Millennial Reign is in Revelation chapter 20.


If we want to find out what the Millennial Reign under Christ will be like, that requires not only looking at New Testament scriptures, but also Old Testament scriptures as well. In other words, we have to look at the full counsel of scripture on the matter from beginning to end.






1.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Body of Christ are the Bride of the lamb
Revelation 20:9-10 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,

Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

2.)Both the New Jerusalem and the Body of Christ are built on the foundations of the prophets
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone

3.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Body of Christ are where God dwells with his people.
Revelation 21:3 Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God

Ephesians 2:21 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

4.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Ezekiel temple having water flowing from them
Revelation 22:1-2 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city.

Ezekiel 47:1-2 Then he brought me back to the door of the temple, and behold, water was issuing from below the threshold of the temple toward the east (for the temple faced east). The water was flowing down from below the south end of the threshold of the temple, south of the altar

5.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Ezekiel temple have trees growing on either side of the river producing fruit every month and have leaves for healing
Ezekiel 47:12 And on the banks, on both sides of the river, there will grow all kinds of trees for food. Their leaves will not wither, nor their fruit fail, but they will bear fresh fruit every month, because the water for them flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for healing.”

Revelation 22:2 On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

6.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Ezekiel temple are where God's throne is
Revelation 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him

Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple, and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever.

7.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Jerusalem of the Ezekiel temple have 12 gates (3 on each side) with the names of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Revelation 21:12-13 The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west.

Ezekiel 48:33-35 These will be the exits of the city: Beginning on the north side, which measures 4,500 cubits long, the gates of the city will be named after the tribes of Israel. On the north side there will be three gates: the gate of Reuben, the gate of Judah, and the gate of Levi.
On the east side, which will be 4,500 cubits long, there will be three gates: the gate of Joseph, the gate of Benjamin, and the gate of Dan. On the south side, which will be 4,500 cubits long, there will be three gates: the gate of Simeon, the gate of Issachar, and the gate of Zebulun. And on the west side, which will be 4,500 cubits long, there will be three gates: the gate of Gad, the gate of Asher, and the gate of Naphtali. The perimeter of the city will be 18,000 cubitsh , and the name of the city from that day on will be: THE LORD IS THERE.”


I believe the Body of Christ = New Jerusalem = Ezekiel temple.

Ezekiel 43:7 and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever.

Isaiah 66:1 Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool;

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
 
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jgr is stuck on the fact that according the mathematics, we are all descendants of Abraham. Which may or may not be 100% correct.

What jgr and most people don't see, is how God chose a people and He has watched them thru the ages. Amos 9:9 and many other verses prove this.
The Jewish people are a part of the Israelites, they are known to us today, but the majority of the Israelites, the ten Northern tribes, remain scattered among the nations and unknown to the world and to themselves.
Actually it is easy to know who the real Israelites are; they are the faithful Christians. Jesus' mission to the lost sheep of Israel, WAS successful.


With most of what you are saying, I agree. The teaching that all of humanity is presently descended from Abraham is far-fetched scientifically and logically and is not biblically compatible.
Granted that some Israelites did mix with the peoples of the nations throughout which they were scattered but not all of them did.

But nevertheless once more, we know that they who are in Christ are given the title of Israel in the spiritual sense because that is what scripture teaches. How it is that the Church is called Israel in the spiritual sense is best explained on another thread, but this thing that the earthly Israel and the spiritual Israel have in common:

Neither one will be destroyed and as mentioned before, earthly Israel will eventually join the spiritual Israel and in doing so, will experience the fullness of the blessings and promises pertaining to them.
 
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