Casting lots

visionary

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Some decisions are hard to make. Al the pros and cons do not weight one way or the other. A choice has to be made. A verse comes forward and you ask yourself, "is this the way to get a godly answer?"

Proverbs 16:33 ‘'The lot is cast into the lap but it’s every decision is from the Lord,"
 

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The New Testament nowhere instructs Christians to use a method similar to casting lots to help with decision-making. Now that we have the completed Word of God, as well as the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide us, there is no reason to be using games of chance to make decisions. The Word, the Spirit, and prayer are sufficient for discerning God’s will today—not casting lots, rolling dice, or flipping a coin.

www.gotquestions.org/casting-lots.html
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Some decisions are hard to make. Al the pros and cons do not weight one way or the other. A choice has to be made. A verse comes forward and you ask yourself, "is this the way to get a godly answer?"

Proverbs 16:33 ‘'The lot is cast into the lap but it’s every decision is from the Lord,"
Since we now have the Holy Spirit, is this divination?

God can speak through it sure, but is there a more Godly way of asking for information?
 
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visionary

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Since we now have the Holy Spirit, is this divination?

God can speak through it sure, but is there a more Godly way of asking for information?
They had the holy spirit then too. Its availability is the has always been there. So that is not a good question.
 
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visionary

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The New Testament nowhere instructs Christians to use a method similar to casting lots to help with decision-making. Now that we have the completed Word of God, as well as the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide us, there is no reason to be using games of chance to make decisions. The Word, the Spirit, and prayer are sufficient for discerning God’s will today—not casting lots, rolling dice, or flipping a coin.

www.gotquestions.org/casting-lots.html
And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. - Acts 1:26
 
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Gregory Thompson

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They had the holy spirit then too. Its availability is the has always been there. So that is not a good question.
When they cast the lots it was acts 1, when they received the Holy Spirit it was Acts 2, thus my question.
 
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visionary

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When they cast the lots it was acts 1, when they received the Holy Spirit it was Acts 2, thus my question.
Numbers 11:25 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied-but did not do so again.

The Holy Spirit rested on these seventy elders way before Acts 1. So no, your question is not valid.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Numbers 11:25 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied-but did not do so again.

The Holy Spirit rested on these seventy elders way before Acts 1. So no, your question is not valid.
There's more to it, but I'll leave it at that.

Bless.
 
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visionary

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There's more to it, but I'll leave it at that.

Bless.
Of course there is more to it, why didn't the apostles wait for the instructions of the holy spirit but cast lots instead? or was Mathias what God wanted them to have for the 12th apostle and thus the casting of lots was the way God communicated with them?
 
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Of course there is more to it, why didn't the apostles wait for the instructions of the holy spirit but cast lots instead? or was Mathias what God wanted them to have for the 12th apostle and thus the casting of lots was the way God communicated with them?
The only distinction I had in mind was in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit would rest upon people for a period of time to accomplish something. However, in the New Testament, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is permanent since this marks the quality of the new life in Christ once we are born again.

So I reasoned, they cast lots because they were still waiting.

In any case, I was just being helpful, and you appear to be taking offense, so I'll be on my way.
 
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visionary

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The only distinction I had in mind was in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit would rest upon people for a period of time to accomplish something. However, in the New Testament, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is permanent since this marks the quality of the new life in Christ once we are born again.

So I reasoned, they cast lots because they were still waiting.

In any case, I was just being helpful, and you appear to be taking offense, so I'll be on my way.
No offense, Good question on the "resting" upon people in OT and "baptizing" people in the NT. We might need a new thread to dig a little deeper into this question.
 
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Gregory Wilson

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Well there it is in holy scripture from proverbs - if one casts a lot, the Lord will decide the result! And all scripture is profitable for doctrine. I think it could be a valid way to make a decision in the right circumstance.. But yes, still might be a little uneasy about the result...
 
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Swan7

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Of course there is more to it, why didn't the apostles wait for the instructions of the holy spirit but cast lots instead? or was Mathias what God wanted them to have for the 12th apostle and thus the casting of lots was the way God communicated with them?

Yes God absolutely communicated with His people in this manner. All the times I have ever read about casting lots was used in this manner. Even when they were cast to divide Jesus’ belongings - which was prophesied by David.

This was absolutely not divination. There seems to be a misunderstanding of scripture about this.
 
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bèlla

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Christ prayed. That’s our example. To cast lots would lend the impression of divination to outsiders which would cause many to stumble and seek answers through those channels. Waiting on Him helps us to develop patience.
 
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Christ prayed. That’s our example. To cast lots would lend the impression of divination to outsiders which would cause many to stumble and seek answers through those channels. Waiting on Him helps us to develop patience.
However, the process is completely Jewish and found within the Torah. It's part of the priestly function and the 'lots' are attached to his garments. They were the urim and thummim. It was a practice instituted by Hashem through through the Torah regarding the high priest to decide matters. It appears random, but serves to render a decision of authority without rendering responsibility to a person. (nobody makes the choice, but God).

The Urim and Thummim (Heb. אוּרִים וְתֻמִּים) was a priestly device for obtaining oracles. On the high priest's ephod (an apron-like garment) lay a breastpiece (חֹשֶׁן) – a pouch inlaid with 12 precious stones engraved with the names of the 12 tribes of Israel – that held the Urim and Thummim (Ex. 28:15–30; Lev. 8:8). By means of the Urim, the priest inquired of YHWH on behalf of the ruler (Num. 27:21; cf. Yoma 7:5, "only for the king, the high court, or someone serving a need of the community"); they were one of the three legitimate means of obtaining oracles in early Israel (Urim, dreams, prophets; I Sam. 28:6). Owing to the oracular character of the Urim, the breastpiece is called "the breastpiece of decision" (חֹשֶׁן הַמִּשְׁפָּט). (The concept evokes "the Tablets of Destiny" in Babylonian mythology – the symbol of supreme authority that lay on the breast of the chief god; Pritchard, Texts, 63, 67, 111.) The right to work this oracle was reserved for the levitical priests (Deut. 33:8).

The most illuminating passage is the Greek of 1 Samuel 14:41, whose underlying Hebrew is mutilated in the received texts: הָבָה תָמִים, conventionally rendered "Give a perfect answer":

Saul said: "O YHWH God of Israel, why have you not answered your servant this day? If the guilt be in me or in my son Jonathan. O YHWH God of Israel, give Urim (הָבָה אוּרִים). But if this guilt is in your people Israel, give Thummim (הָבָה תֻמִּים)."

From the use of the verbs hippil and nilkad in connection with the Urim (verses 41–42), it appears that they were a kind of lot ((marked) stones or sticks?), since these verbs occur in connection with the casting of lots (Isa. 34:17; I Sam. 10:20). They were suitable for indicating which of two alternatives was right; hence inquiries to be decided by them were designed to elicit "yes" or "no" answers (I Sam. 23:10–12;30:8). ~virtualjewishlibrary
 
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Well there it is in holy scripture from proverbs - if one casts a lot, the Lord will decide the result! And all scripture is profitable for doctrine. I think it could be a valid way to make a decision in the right circumstance.. But yes, still might be a little uneasy about the result...
Whatever is not "of faith" is sin.

So do not try without confidence in the Father in heaven. Don't be "uneasy" with Yahuweh's (God's) Guidance, nor be double-minded.
 
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bèlla

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However, the process is completely Jewish and found within the Torah.

That was not my point. I mentioned the result of employing the practice on outsiders (immature Christians are in that lot). Most would assume you’re sanctioning divination.

The majority of Christians aren’t conversant in the Old Testament nor its culture and practices.
 
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