Controversial faith question?

Dave-W

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According to Jeremiah's prophesy concerning the New Covenant to come this cant happen.

Jer 31:
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Jer 32:
38 “They shall be My people, and I will be their God;
39 and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them.
40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.
41 “I will rejoice over them to do them good and will faithfully plant them in this land with all My heart and with all My soul.

The Fear of Him indwelling us seals us against apostasy as promised.

This is consistent with the seven aspects of the Holy Spirit being mentioned in Isaiah 11 indwelling us - including the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord - when we are born again.
That is talking about ethnic Jews at the end of time.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Mmmm... I replied but my post disappeared...

Try again.

The Apostles were somewhat surprised that the Gentiles were receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit as well as them.

They would have been well aware of these verses as they confirmed the much awaited the permanent indwelling presence promised in the Covenant to come.

All believers in the New Covenant era have received this as promised.

This nullifies the suggestion that something greater is yet to come.

You see just as the Apostles were thinking that only they would receive this indwelling presence, as they thought that only Jews would inherit the Land.

Many Christians today miss the fact that the Promises concerning the Land were given to Abraham long before Moses and we inherit these promises through Christ the 'seed'. This is confirmed in Galatians 3.

So the real Israel are those who are of faith - both Jew and Gentile. For this reason both Jew and Gentile have received this promise. Rom 9.

This includes the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord which seals our salvation as clearly promised.
 
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Cherrein

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I agree with many of the posts in this thread. I can only add that God looks at the heart. While some may 'renounce' their faith in God, only God can truly know whether they were ever truly one of His and whether despite their apparent renouncing of their faith whether they still are.
 
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joshua 1 9

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If someone decides to leave the faith we’re they a follower of Jesus in the first place?
Paul says: "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." Philp1:6

Is this conditional on us allowing God to continue to do a work in us and in our life?

When people are saved all of Heaven rejoices. So there must be some degree of assurance that God is able to finish the work that He began in us.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6 and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame (Heb 6)

9 Even though we speak like this,beloved, we are convinced of better things in your case— things that accompany salvation. 10 For God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown for His name as you have ministered to the saints and continue to do so.

If we give Paul the benefit of the doubt then he seems to be saying that IF someone were to fall away he could not be restored a second time. But God is able to keep what we have trusted to HIM and He is able to preserve what belongs to Him.

Heb 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
 
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Dave-W

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Mmmm... I replied but my post disappeared...
I hate it when that happens ....
The Apostles were somewhat surprised that the Gentiles were receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit as well as them.

They would have been well aware of these verses as they confirmed the much awaited the permanent indwelling presence promised in the Covenant to come.

All believers in the New Covenant era have received this as promised.

This nullifies the suggestion that something greater is yet to come.
Except Paul calls our receiving the Spirit an "ernest" or a down payment of what is to come. Hebrews 6 talks about those who have tasted the powers of the age to come.

those passages support the idea that something greater awaits us.
 
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Dave-W

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Many Christians today miss the fact that the Promises concerning the Land were given to Abraham long before Moses and we inherit these promises through Christ the 'seed'. This is confirmed in Galatians 3.
that is classic replacement theology. Gentiles get included; but the physical promise to the physical descendants of Jacob still stands and will be fulfilled.
 
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Carl Emerson

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That is not classic replacement theology.

Nothing is being replaced.

Believing Jews AND believing gentiles share the land in one vine. This is consistent with Rom 9-11 and Gal 6.

Replacement theology ignores the place in His purpose of the Nation of Israel. At some future time all Jews will repent.

Paul talks of two Israels and so do I. Both have a place in His purpose.
 
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bcbsr

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If someone decides to leave the faith we’re they a follower of Jesus in the first place?

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19
 
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Carl Emerson

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Those who are born again NOW do.
Exactly as Jeremiah prophesied. They do now. So the suggestion that this promise is not yet fulfilled is not correct. This is why I hold to his chosen having their salvation eternally sealed by the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord. Exactly as Jeremiah correctly predicted.
 
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Carl Emerson

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"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

Exactly.
 
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