LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

devin553344

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He was still in His human imperfect body capable of sinning (breaking the commandments of God the Father) although He hadn't done so.

So you think his body tempted him? We only have written record that Satan tempted a God (Jesus) to perform miracles of turning stone into bread and such. Which is obvious he was a God if he could turn stone into bread. A miracle that he did for many by dividing bread and fish and fed the multitude. Feeding the multitude - Wikipedia
 
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Peter1000

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If you're trying to sell me some teaching from a polygamous spiritual leader, as was Joseph Smith, you're not going to succeed. I don't believe polygamy is morally upright. And your really nit picking the word marry which could easily and most like does mean married.

The LDS teachings of "Celestial Marriage" appear to be polygamous and therefore immoral in my opinion:Celestial marriage - Wikipedia

Wikipedia is not a good choice for getting your information about our plural marriage. No wonder you are confused.

I am not trying to teach you anything. I am trying to see what your understanding is about the text about marriage (or not) in heaven, based on Matthew 22:30.

We both agree that Jesus was talking about a time that is after the resurrection.

Now tell me how you interpret "they neither marry"? Tell my how you think I am nit picking 'marry'? Do you think the text should say, 'there is no marriage'? Let me know, so I can respond. Thank you.

As far as plural marriage is concerned. In our D&C, the Lord tells us that having one wife is the natural law, and that we should abide that law. Only under certain conditions will the Lord command plural marriage, and it is only by commandment of the Lord, then he says it is not adultery and is clean unto me.

Right now, we live the law of one wife. Anyone that tries to practice plural marriage is excommunicated.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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(New Testament | John 16:33)

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

(New Testament | Luke 13:31 - 35)

31 ¶ The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Luke 13:31-35 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
Jesus and Herod
31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said, “You had better get away from here! Herod[a] wants to kill you.”

32 Jesus said to them:

Go tell that fox, “I am going to force out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and three days later I’ll be through.” 33 But I am going on my way today and tomorrow and the next day. After all, Jerusalem is the place where prophets are killed.

Jesus Loves Jerusalem
34 Jerusalem, Jerusalem! Your people have killed the prophets and have stoned the messengers who were sent to you. I have often wanted to gather your people, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings. But you wouldn’t let me. 35 Now your temple will be deserted. You won’t see me again until the time when you say,

“Blessed is the one who comes
in the name of the Lord.”

Luke 13:31-35 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
The Pharisees warn Jesus of Herod; he replies
31 Just then some Pharisees arrived to tell him, “You must get right away from here, for Herod intends to kill you.”

32-33 “Go and tell that fox,” returned Jesus, “today and tomorrow I am expelling evil spirits and continuing my work of healing, and on the third day my work will be finished. But I must journey on today, tomorrow, and the next day, for it would never do for a prophet to meet his death outside Jerusalem!

34-35 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you murder the prophets and stone the messengers that are sent to you! How often have I longed to gather your children round me like a bird gathering her brood together under her wings, but you would never have it. Now, all that is left is yourselves, and your house. For I tell you that you will never see me again till the day when you cry, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
 
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Daniel Marsh

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What Does the Bible Mean by Temptation?
Copyright 1990 by Bob and Gretchen Passantino.
1. God cannot be tempted (James 1:13)
.
2. God can be tempted (or there would be no reason for us to be warned against tempting God -- Deuteronomy 6:16).
3. If God cannot be tempted (see 1 above), and Jesus is God, then does that mean he cannot be tempted? (James 1:13)
4. But Jesus was tempted (Hebrews 4:15).
5. God tempts no one (James 1:13).
6. God tempted someone (David, to number Israel -- 2 Samuel 24:1).
How are these biblical statements reconciled, both within scripture and consistent with God's character?
The answers to these statements can be categorized in two major ways: vocabulary (what words were used in the original, and what meanings those words have), and context (how the words were used in each passage).
Vocabulary
Temptation has many synonyms (equivalent words) in English. It can mean (among other things) test, proof, experiment, trial, and enticement. The main Greek (New Testament language) words for temptation are formed from peiraz and dokimaz , both words of which also occur in the Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. The main Hebrew words are n s�h, s rap, and b han, and one word which relates primarily to the genuineness of coins, sig. Comparing the Septuagint equivalents to the original Hebrew helps us understand the overall biblical use of the terms.
[Those who wish more information on the Greek or Hebrew should see The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Vol. 3), Colin Brown, ed., Zondervan, 1978, pp. 798-810; or The Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, Lawrence O. Richards, Zondervan, 1985, pp. 593-594.]
Both peiraz and dokimaz can mean test or proof. In addition, peiraz includes the ideas of temptation or enticement (to sin) and of a trial. Dokimaz also carries the connotation of approval or genuineness.
From this vocabulary study, we see that "temptation" can mean test, proof, or to establish genuineness; not only "enticement to sin."
Context
Armed with our vocabulary study, we can look at the context of each of our six statements.
God Cannot Be Tempted
James 1:13 says, "Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone." Looking at the context, we see that the statement is not merely "God cannot be tempted," but "God cannot be tempted by evil." In other words, God cannot be enticed to sin (Greek apeir st s). James 1:13 affirms that God cannot sin, but is completely holy and good.
God Can Be Tempted
When Deuteronomy 6:16 warns us against "tempting God," the context refers on the one hand to testing the Israelites' faithfulness and, on the other hand, to testing God's righteous judgment. Paraphrased, the passage means, "Don't test God's righteous judgment by worship-ping idols unless you are willing to be wiped off the face of the earth" (v. 15).
The reconciliation of the two statements? God cannot be enticed to sin; he is holy and good. God's consistent, holy, good reaction to idolatry is righteous judgment. One should not "test" God's character by sinning, since God will "pass the test" of righteousness and punish the sinner (see also Jeremiah 18:7-10).
Can Jesus Be God and Be Tempted?
Jesus is God and so he cannot be tempted in the sense that he cannot be enticed to sin, but he can be tempted in the sense that he can be tested, even with the evil lures of Satan (Matthew 4), and found to be true to his character. This is the context of Hebrews 4:15, which says, "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted (peiraz ) in all things as we are, yet without sin."/
Jesus was tested by Satan's enticements concerning his obedience to the Father and his commitment to his messianic mission, yet he did not succumb to the temptation. (A related issue concerns the dynamics between Christ's human and divine natures, under the subjection of his one divine person. See The Impeccable Christ by W. E. Best, Zondervan, 1971).
Does God Tempt People?
Look again at James 1:13. Just as God cannot be enticed into sinning, so God does not entice anyone else into sinning. That is what is meant by "and He Himself does not tempt anyone." James warns us not to blame our own fall into sin on God. God does not persuade us to sin, we willingly fall to the lure of our own sinful nature (Romans 3:23), the sinfulness in the world (Titus 2:12), and/or the false promises of Satan (Genesis 3:1-5).
When 2 Samuel 24:1 says God provoked or tempted David to number Israel, it means God made use of David's action to manifest David's disobedience to God. The parallel passage in 1 Chronicles 27:23-24 credits Satan with provoking David to take the census. Putting the two passages together shows that, while Satan may have enticed David into sin, it was God who tested David and used that occasion to show both David and the Israelites the consequences of David's sin.
God tests us to reveal to ourselves and the world our true characters.
God has always tested each order of rational beings that He has created. This test has consisted of proof of perfect trust and obedience. A test in itself is not a cause of sin. Only the action of the one tested can turn it into an occasion to sin. . . . Adam and Eve faced a test of obedience, and disobeyed and fell. Christ, in order to redeem men, faced testing, and came out victorious (Hebrews 5:7-9) (Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 2, Charles Pfeiffer, Howard Vos, and John Rea, eds., Moody, 1975, p. 1680).
Summary
There are various meanings for the word temptation. Usually it means either an enticement to sin or a test or trial. God never entices anyone to sin, but uses testing to reveal his justice and challenge believers to faithfulness (2 Corinthians 13:5-8).
Answers In Action
 
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Rescued One

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Yes, you are right, in the resurrection there will not be any new marriages, but those that were married "in the Lord" before the resurrection will be married even after the resurrection, in fact they will be married for time and all eternity, as the NT says.

Angels are not married neither will humans be --- they'll be unmarried as the angels are.
 
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mmksparbud

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He was still in His human imperfect body capable of sinning (breaking the commandments of God the Father) although He hadn't done so.

As a human He most certainly could have sinned---you can not be tempted unless there is a potential to succumb to it. If you can't fall to the sin, it is no temptation. Could Jesus have sinned? Absolutely!! Would He have lost His Godhood? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! God is God. If He had fallen to sin at any time---we would all be lost--but He would still, and always will, be God. Satan would have claimed a victory, but Jesus would still have remained God and Satan would still never have had the power he wanted. God would have had to destroy sin in a different manner---but He still would have done so and Jesus would never have lost His Godhood---not a possibility. Point is---Jesus didn't fail.
 
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Rescued One

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MORMONISM:
Humans and gods are the same species. Each has to earn godhood.

"Even Christ himself was not perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness [see D&C 93:11–13]. Is not this to be so with the children of men? Is any man perfect? Has any man received a fulness at once? Have we reached a point wherein we may receive the fulness of God, of his glory, and his intelligence? No; and yet, if Jesus, the Son of God, and the Father of the heavens and the earth in which we dwell, received not a fulness at the first, but increased in faith, knowledge, understanding and grace until he received a fulness, is it not possible for all men who are born of women to receive little by little, line upon line, precept upon precept, until they shall receive a fulness, as he has received a fulness, and be exalted with him in the presence of the Father?"
Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p.68

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...pdf/language-materials/35744_eng.pdf?lang=eng
 
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Rescued One

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So you think his body tempted him? We only have written record that Satan tempted a God (Jesus) to perform miracles of turning stone into bread and such. Which is obvious he was a God if he could turn stone into bread. A miracle that he did for many by dividing bread and fish and fed the multitude. Feeding the multitude - Wikipedia
Correction: Jesus wasn't a God. That's Mormonism.
 
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He is the way

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Correction: Jesus wasn't a God. That's Mormonism.
Rather God the Father is our God and the God of Jesus our brother. However, Jesus Christ is one with God the Father as we can also be one with Him:

(New Testament | John 17:21 - 23)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
 
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mmksparbud

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I believe those who are Gods can give up their Godhood for a period of time, not that they lose it.

LOL!! Jesus never gave it up. It was set aside, partially hidden by His humanity unless needed. God doesn't loose His godhood. He doesn't give it up---all life would cease if He did---He does not transfer it. What nonsense.
 
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He is the way

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LOL!! Jesus never gave it up. It was set aside, partially hidden by His humanity unless needed. God doesn't loose His godhood. He doesn't give it up---all life would cease if He did---He does not transfer it. What nonsense.
(New Testament | Philippians 2:7 - 9)

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
 
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mmksparbud

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(New Testament | Philippians 2:7 - 9)

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:


Yes---that is what I said---but He was still God the Son, God the Creator of all--veiled and set aside---still God.
 
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Rescued One

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So, do our LDS friends believe that a god can loose their godhood?

Some of them do:

LDS Mormons Say "There are many cults and many false faiths..."
post #33
 
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He is the way

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Yes---that is what I said---but He was still God the Son, God the Creator of all--veiled and set aside---still God.
And I said: "I believe those who are Gods can give up their Godhood for a period of time, not that they lose it."
 
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mmksparbud

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And I said: "I believe those who are Gods can give up their Godhood for a period of time, not that they lose it."

So you disagree with your buddy?

If Jesus had not finished the work that God had given him to do, Jesus would not have continued to perfect himself and would have lost his Godhood.
 
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devin553344

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Wikipedia is not a good choice for getting your information about our plural marriage. No wonder you are confused.

I am not trying to teach you anything. I am trying to see what your understanding is about the text about marriage (or not) in heaven, based on Matthew 22:30.

We both agree that Jesus was talking about a time that is after the resurrection.

Now tell me how you interpret "they neither marry"? Tell my how you think I am nit picking 'marry'? Do you think the text should say, 'there is no marriage'? Let me know, so I can respond. Thank you.

As far as plural marriage is concerned. In our D&C, the Lord tells us that having one wife is the natural law, and that we should abide that law. Only under certain conditions will the Lord command plural marriage, and it is only by commandment of the Lord, then he says it is not adultery and is clean unto me.

Right now, we live the law of one wife. Anyone that tries to practice plural marriage is excommunicated.

The wiki article is correct. Mormons perform a "Celestial Marriage" one per male-female. And if the wife dies then the man can marry another wife. In heaven he gets both. This is the very heart of Jesus conversation and what he said was not going to happen. See Matthew 22:23-30

So we agree then no marriages will be performed for people that are resurrected. If that is at the heart of heaven, what makes you think people would be married in heaven? Seems contradictory. At this point I must believe that only Mormon authority have this power, not Jesus and God the Father, because they won't be performing any of this. Doesn't that seem strange to you?
 
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