Patriarchs Meletios IV and Athenagoras I never condemned or excommunicated?

Not David

I'm back!
Apr 6, 2018
7,356
5,235
25
USA
✟231,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Both of these patriarchs were well known Freemasons. One might also add Antony Bashir and Aftimios Ofiesh while on the subject. Why the silence?
The only one I found out was a Freemason was Patriarch Meletios IV, do you have a source on the others?
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,470
20,026
41
Earth
✟1,456,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
this is something for the bishops to do. but it took Origen more than 200 years to be formally condemned, but that didn't make him any less the heretic.

so for this, I dunno. I can say in Seminary we were certainly no fans of them (especially Meletios).
 
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,513
New York
✟212,454.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Any ideas why the GOA doesnt have the same issue with Freemasonry as other jurisdictions? Was Freemasonry, and other lodges such as Elks, a way for Greeks to fit into American society?
During the waning days of the Ottomon empire, Britain had heavy influence with the former peoples of the Ottomon Empire (namely the Greeks). Cyprus became a british colony, Britain took control of Palestine from the Ottomons in 1920. Even Before that British and Turks were not adversarial hence why you had guys like Lord Elgin doing as he pleased in Athens. In 1815 the Ionian islands became protectorates of the U.k. and that's when freemasonry was first introduced in Greece. A freemason bishop with loyalties to Britain would be placed in the top bishopric for geopolitical reasons.
 
Upvote 0

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
Oct 25, 2010
4,121
4,187
Yorktown VA
✟176,292.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
During the waning days of the Ottomon empire, Britain had heavy influence with the former peoples of the Ottomon Empire (namely the Greeks). Cyprus became a british colony, Britain took control of Palestine from the Ottomons in 1920. Even Before that British and Turks were not adversarial hence why you had guys like Lord Elgin doing as he pleased in Athens. In 1815 the Ionian islands became protectorates of the U.k. and that's when freemasonry was first introduced in Greece. A freemason bishop with loyalties to Britain would be placed in the top bishopric for geopolitical reasons.

Ahhh, and when the Greeks got to the US, they were pretty badly treated. So they adapted churches to match more with the US style (pews and organs), continued Masonic membership or joined lodges here and then formed AHEPA (of which I'm a brother). Thank you. I think I may need to start studying the history of modern Greece, of which I know absolutely nothing.
 
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
21,434
11,981
58
Sydney, Straya
✟1,167,724.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Ahhh, and when the Greeks got to the US, they were pretty badly treated. So they adapted churches to match more with the US style (pews and organs), continued Masonic membership or joined lodges here and then formed AHEPA (of which I'm a brother). Thank you. I think I may need to start studying the history of modern Greece, of which I know absolutely nothing.
I would distance yourself from AHEPA.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
Oct 25, 2010
4,121
4,187
Yorktown VA
✟176,292.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
We're about as Masonic as American beer is to beer. We have a Masonic like initiation rite but no degrees, no craft, nothing else. We do philanthropic service and promote scholarships for parish members.

Although personally, I love this conspiracy theory from Pizzagate that calls AHEPA, "a virtually unknown powerful international ancient Greek ultra secret Masonic society". In our last meeting, we spent 30 minutes discussing the price that our kitchen should charge for selling blocks of feta cheese. I guess I'm not where the action is at!

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]! James ALEFANTIS And New Hampshire Alderman pizza parlor owner ARE BOTH GREEK MEMBERS OF THE HELLENIC SOCIETY, An Ancient Society.
UPDATE: James A. Alefantis of Comet Ping Pong Pizza in Washington DC at the heart of General Flynn’s PIZZAGATE, and his family are connected to a virtually unknown powerful international ancient Greek ultra secret Masonic society, Order of the AHEPA, the American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association. They are also associated with the Hellenic Orthodox Church of Annunciation (Grandmother Helen Pappas Alefantis).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GoingByzantine

Seeking the Narrow Road
Supporter
Jun 19, 2013
3,304
1,099
✟92,845.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I don't know enough about AHEPA to speak confidently about it. I ran across a listing for a AHEPA run Orthodox bookstore not far from me, but I haven't gone due to my trepedation about the group.

Personally I think that quasi-religious fraternal groups like AHEPA, and the Knights of Columbus do lots of good philantrophic deeds and deserve to be commended for their work. However, it often seems that these groups are more worldly then they should be. The silly headwear, initiation rites etc. are problematic. What purpose do these serve for a Christian? Brotherhood? The last I checked, we are already brothers and sisters in christ.
 
Upvote 0

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
Oct 25, 2010
4,121
4,187
Yorktown VA
✟176,292.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
AHEPA is not specifically Orthodox and was formed by Greek Americans in 1922 to combat such sentiments as this from 1909: "The Omaha Daily News wrote, "Their quarters have been unsanitary; they have insulted women... Herded together in lodging houses and living cheaply, Greeks are a menace to the American laboring man – just as the Japs, Italians, and other similar laborers are." Greek Town riot - Wikipedia
 
Upvote 0

JasonV

Active Member
Nov 2, 2017
154
83
USA
Visit site
✟26,455.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private

So are the Mason rituals. And they've been in print for over a hundred years.

In our last meeting, we spent 30 minutes discussing the price that our kitchen should charge for selling blocks of feta cheese. I guess I'm not where the action is at!

That's the same for a typical Masonic meeting anywhere in the USA. But I will always raise my voice against Freemasonry.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JasonV

Active Member
Nov 2, 2017
154
83
USA
Visit site
✟26,455.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
@JasonV Were the Ecumenical Patriarchs of Constantinople previous to the end of the Roman Empire condemned by name for becoming Greek Catholics? If not, I don't see how is not condemning Masonic bishops the same thing.

It is not necessary to condemn a heretic by name in a formal council in order to recognize one as a heretic.
 
Upvote 0