Believers’ faith must endure until the end of their lives!

1stcenturylady

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In heaven we are clothed with white linen, but here linen gets dirty. Obviously Jesus said believers will commit offenses against each other. Often. How else would we need to forgive if brethren were sinless!? That is ridiculous.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.



dad, please answer my post to you. Are the sins I mentioned called trespasses?
 
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1stcenturylady

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@dad This one below

It seems you believe that because we are not under the law we can murder, commit adultery, steal, lie and believe that Christ took our penalty, so we are free to do what we want. Am I reading you right? Is that what you believe?

I hope that is not what you believe, because it is false, though Martin Luther seemed to believe that in his "Sin
 
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dad

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@dad This one below
David killed a guy, and so I guess committed adultery as well, Peter tried to kill a guy. Samson killed lots of guys. Any believer who looked at any woman to lust committed adultery. Any believer that had a moment of hatred is a murderer. Abraham lied about Sarah, Peter lied that He did not know Jesus. Etc etc. The bible is full of women and men sinning and being forgiven and saved.

I already gave the verse where Peter talked about believers sinning. Jesus did not correct Him, rather said he should keep on and keep on and keep on forgiving those sins. The servant is not greater than his master, and that is what the Master said! John, the servant must be taken in context.
 
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1stcenturylady

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David killed a guy, and so I guess committed adultery as well, Peter tried to kill a guy. Samson killed lots of guys. Any believer who looked at any woman to lust committed adultery. Any believer that had a moment of hatred is a murderer. Abraham lied about Sarah, Peter lied that He did not know Jesus. Etc etc. The bible is full of women and men sinning and being forgiven and saved.

I already gave the verse where Peter talked about believers sinning. Jesus did not correct Him, rather said he should keep on and keep on and keep on forgiving those sins. The servant is not greater than his master, and that is what the Master said! John, the servant must be taken in context.

Do you understand the difference between the covenants? For instance, you are talking about Peter though Jesus was still living. The New Covenant hadn't started yet, so he was under the LAW. Samson was before the LAW, and David repented, but God took his son.

daddy-O you are missing the main ingredient when saying we are NOT UNDER THE LAW. Here is a question I'd like you to ponder. What replaced the law?
 
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dad

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Do you understand the difference between the covenants? For instance, you are talking about Peter though Jesus was still living. The New Covenant hadn't started yet, so he was under the LAW. Samson was before the LAW, and David repented, but God took his son.

daddy-O you are missing the main ingredient when saying we are NOT UNDER THE LAW. Here is a question I'd like you to ponder. What replaced the law?

We are not under the law period. Never really were. By the law was no flesh justified ever. No one ever kept the law. No one was ever saved by the law. They were saved by believing Jesus would come, and us by believing He did come. Don't let anyone try to put you under the bondage of the law. We are free from that. By the law is death. By Christ is life.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Continuing belief-faith is necessary for
continuing salvation-eternal life
Yes........along with earning a few crowns.................

1Co 9:25
and every one who is striving, is in all things temperate; these, indeed, then,
that a corruptible Crown they may receive, but we an incorruptible;

2Ti 4:8
henceforth there is laid up for me the Crown of the Righteousness that the Lord -- the Righteous Judge -- shall give to me in that day, and not only to me, but also to all those loving his manifestation.

1Pe 5:4
and at the manifestation of the chief Shepherd, ye shall receive the unfading Crown of the Glory.

Jas 1:12
Happy the man who doth endure<5278> trials<3986>, because, becoming approved,
he shall receive the Crown of the Life, which the Lord did promise to those loving Him.

Rev 2:10
'Be not afraid of the things that thou art about to suffer; lo, the devil is about to cast of you to prison, that ye may be tried<3985>, and ye shall have tribulation ten days;
become thou faithful unto death, and I will give to thee the Crown of the Life.

Revelation 13:10 [Luke 21:24]
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints
====================
Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]
 
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SkyWriting

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Continuing belief-faith is necessary for
continuing salvation-eternal life

Yes, and believers can backslide into legalism.....but can recover
as they still respect God.
 
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SkyWriting

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I've already warned you that
you insist on ignoring/rejecting
God's many warnings about losing salvation!

We can't un-bleed Jesus. It's already done.

John 19
30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

John 3
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
 
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BCsenior

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BC: I've already warned you that you insist on ignoring/rejecting
God's many warnings about losing salvation!

We can't un-bleed Jesus. It's already done.
John 19:30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,”
and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son,
that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Yes, Jesus finally had finished the tasks He was sent to perform.

Do you have any idea what the NT version of "believe" really means?
 
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SkyWriting

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SkyWriting

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Continuing belief-faith is necessary for continuing salvation-eternal life

Faith in Christ for our salvation and not backsliding
into trusting in ourselves for our salvation.

You message is sliding back toward legalism which
claims we must work out our salvation.

But you can be saved, by trusting in Jesus again
and not your own efforts to be justified.
 
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Saint Steven

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Continuing belief-faith is necessary for
continuing salvation-eternal life
Putting conditions on salvation is dangerous territory.
How can we measure such things?

We have been saved (past tense) in the here and now by the completed work of Christ on our behalf.

To place ANY conditions on this is claiming salvation depending on personal effort.
This raises many questions and puts us in a no-man's land of trying to measure such things.

If someone stayed in the church, was that enough? Or could they have done more? (of course) Was it enough? (who can say?)

Did they have enough faith? (who can say?) Could they have had more faith? (of course) Was it enough? (who can say?)

Some will claim that you can lose your salvation by an act of your own will. I do not believe this. We cannot in and of ourselves undo what only God can do in the first place.

Even in the situation of reprobation it is God's decision, not ours. Jesus leaves the 99 to go after the one. Only when he decided not to do this has a person been left out.
 
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BCsenior

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Putting conditions on salvation is dangerous territory.
How can we measure such things?
BACs are supposed to measure such things by reading God's dire warnings in the NT.
There are many conditions attached to our salvation, which is a process!
Ever noticed all of the "IF" conditional statements in the epistles?
However, these conditional statements are just one type of warning.
Today's popular doctrines like grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.
are horrendously false doctrines straight out of the pits of hell.
 
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Saint Steven

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BACs are supposed to measure such things by reading God's dire warnings in the NT.
There are many conditions attached to our salvation, which is a process!
Ever noticed all of the "IF" conditional statements in the epistles?
However, these conditional statements are just one type of warning.
Today's popular doctrines like grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.
are horrendously false doctrines straight out of the pits of hell.
So, you are waiting to find out whether you will be saved, or not?
And you believe false doctrines come from "the pits of hell"?

I believe we are saved in the here and now (based on the finished work of atonement on the cross) and that the word "hell" was borrowed from a pagan Norse religion and should not even be in the bible.
 
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BCsenior

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So, you are waiting to find out whether you will be saved, or not?
And you believe false doctrines come from "the pits of hell"?
I believe we are saved in the here and now (based on the finished work of atonement on the cross) and that the word "hell" was borrowed from a pagan Norse religion and should not even be in the bible.
To be clear, I have confidence in my salvation
because I'm doing what I'm told to do in the NT
to the best of my ability ... repenting of sin, etc.

I understand ... you wish that only what you want
to be in the Bible should be in there! Great.
 
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Saint Steven

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To be clear, I have confidence in my salvation
because I'm doing what I'm told to do in the NT
to the best of my ability ... repenting of sin, etc.

I understand ... you wish that only what you want
to be in the Bible should be in there! Great.
Glad to hear that you are confident in your salvation.

I put more weight on the finished work done on my behalf than what I can do for myself.
In other words, I "... put no confidence in the flesh..." (Phil.3)

I do not live in fear of "losing" my salvation.

If a person decides to "leave the faith", God will have to decide what to do about that.
I don't consider that a one-way "ticket to hell". Because "... God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." - Rom.11:29

Ultimately, it is God who justifies the ungodly. When we trust God, our faith is credited as righteousness. (Rom.4:5)

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
 
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BCsenior

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SS,
You are totally disregarding all of the many NT verses about:
losing salvation
gaining eternal death
being estranged from Christ
falling from grace
drawing back to perdition
being blocked from entering the kingdom of God
being blocked from entering the city of New Jerusalem
being blotted out of the Book of Life
... let's see, do we have space for more?
 
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Saint Steven

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SS,
You are totally disregarding all of the many NT verses about:
losing salvation
gaining eternal death
being estranged from Christ
falling from grace
drawing back to perdition
being blocked from entering the kingdom of God
being blocked from entering the city of New Jerusalem
being blotted out of the Book of Life
... let's see, do we have space for more?
Losing salvation?
I can't imagine such a thing. Is that like losing your car keys? - lol

You said something in the previous post to me that was very telling.
Here's your quote. (note bolded statement) My comments below.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BCsenior said:
To be clear, I have confidence in my salvation
because I'm doing what I'm told to do in the NT
to the best of my ability
... repenting of sin, etc.

I understand ... you wish that only what you want
to be in the Bible should be in there! Great.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You said you were confidence in your salvation...
"... because I'm doing what I'm told to do in the NT to the best of my ability..."

Since when is "to the best of my ability" good enough to EARN or RETAIN salvation?
Back to my original question. How can such things be measured?

Is doing what you were told to do in the NT to the best of your ability enough? (who knows?) Could you have done better? (sure) Was it enough? (who knows?)

Much better to put your assurance in the FINISHED work of the atonement.
Since Jesus paid it all, you don't need to pay anything. It's a gift. Why do you refuse it?

Do you really think you can be saved if you refuse the gift of salvation?
By claiming that you have to do something to retain it, you are denying the gift.
Stop living in fear and receive the gift.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
 
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Neogaia777

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SS,
You are totally disregarding all of the many NT verses about:
losing salvation
gaining eternal death
being estranged from Christ
falling from grace
drawing back to perdition
being blocked from entering the kingdom of God
being blocked from entering the city of New Jerusalem
being blotted out of the Book of Life
... let's see, do we have space for more?
Are you wanting to judge such things for yourself only, or for others also...? Cause that is the "dangerous ground" that is most often "sin" whether a person knows that or not...

Especially if you judge hypocritically whether you know it or not or think you are or are not also... because most of the time, you are...

You just are, most of the time...

Which is sin, etc...

And if you really want me to expose your hypocrisy, just ask, K...

God Bless!
 
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