Is Jesus Christ present in the world?

Andrewn

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All put Jesus' resurrected form in one specific place...at the right and of God in heaven. The last (Acts 7:55-56), the story of the martyrdom of Stephen, indicates that Stephen sees him there as he is dying. So I think that's pretty much incontrovertible evidence of where Jesus is at the moment.
You make good points. The following verses show that Jesus Christ is indeed present in the world:

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

John 14:20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our home with him.

John 17:23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

Romans 8:10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

1co 12:27 You are the body of Christ, and individually you are members of it.

1Co 15:8 Last of all, He was seen by me also, as by one born at the wrong time.

2Co 4:6 For it is the God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are living in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless, indeed, you fail to meet the test!

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who set me apart since I was in my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the nations, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I am now living in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Gal 4:19 My children, I am suffering birth pains for you again until Christ is formed in you.

Eph 1:23 The church is his body, the fullness of him[c] who fills everything in every way.

Eph 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Then, being rooted and grounded in love,

Eph 4:7 But to each one of us grace was given, according to the measure of the gift from Christ. 8 That is why it says, “When he ascended on high, he took captivity captive and gave gifts to his people.” 12 for the purpose of training the saints for the work of serving, in order to build up the body of Christ.

Col 1:27 God wanted to make known to them what is the wealth of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles—this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

1 John 3:24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Revelation 3:20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

You can probably think of a few more verses that I didn't list above. The second person of the Trinity was omnipresent before the incarnation. Why should He be limited now? But even physically, as a Lutheran you believe He is physically present in the sacrament of the Eucharist.

How can you explain this?
 

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The physical Jesus is at the right hand of the Father in heaven, interceding for us. He said that He would have to go away, but He would not leave us alone, but will send the Holy Spirit in His stead. The physical Jesus is not omnipresent. But we still have God with us in in the Person of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not inferior to Jesus because He is an equal Person in the Trinity.

This is what Jesus meant when He said that He would always be with us. The Holy Spirit did not come to represent Himself, He came to represent Jesus in us. Therefore having the Holy Spirit in us is equivalent to having Jesus in us because everything that Jesus is, the Holy Spirit is to us.

The work of the Holy Spirit in us is to make Jesus real to us and to point us to Him and to strengthen our faith in Him.

I cannot comment on His presence in the Eucharist, because it is not for me to give comments relating to it on this forum. If Lutherans believe that Jesus is right there in the Eucharist and it strengthens their faith in Christ and His finished work on Calvary, I would be the last person to argue with that! :)
 
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The point is that God the Son is _not_ only physical. He is omnipresent and the verses I quoted prove this.
Then, if He is present in the earth at this time, why does He say that He will return one day? And if He is present, why is the Holy Spirit still here. If the principal is present, the representative is not needed. Anyone can go through the concordance and list verses to try and prove a point, but the problem is that important and significant verses are left out that would throw a spanner into the works of the theory.

After His resurrection, Jesus is a God-Man. He has a glorified body and is at the throne of God, seated at the Father's right hand.
 
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Andrewn

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the problem is that important and significant verses are left out that would throw a spanner into the works of the theory.
Please do not accuse me of ignoring biblical teachings in favor of selected verses. I don't do that. When I start a thread, I start it to learn from others, not to "sell" an idea. What are the verses that prove Lord Jesus is _not_ in the world? quoting verses that prove the Holy Spirit is in the word doesn't answer this question.

After His resurrection, Jesus is a God-Man. He has a glorified body and is at the throne of God, seated at the Father's right hand.
Yes, this is what Newtheran said, also. And I do not disagree. He will return again, physically, in the future. But the Holy Son is God. And God is immutable. The incarnation did not limit Him to one place. There are multiple verses saying that He is with us and He is in us, now. How do you handle these?

Why did the Lord say, "Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don't go away the Counselor will not come to you. If I go, I will send him to you," Joh 16:7?
 
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RaymondG

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He will return again, physically, in the future.
Why do you believe this? And If he does return Physically, how do you know he would not be rejected like He was the "1st" time? Just like many differ in beliefs about whether or not he is still here now, many differ in belief on how He should return......so he will return in a way that many believe is incorrect.... How, then, would we know that we would accept Him.....specially if He appears as lowly as a carpenter's son....and not on chariots of fire like most now and back then expect?
 
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Andrewn

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Why do you believe this? And If he does return Physically, how do you know he would not be rejected like He was the "1st" time?
The second coming of Jesus will be on the clouds with His angels and every eye will see Him. So, there will be no chance He would be rejected, No?
 
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RaymondG

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The second coming of Jesus will be on the clouds with His angels and every eye will see Him. So, there will be no chance He would be rejected, No?
The religious 2k years ago were waiting for the messiah to come with power and authority as well....the Great deliverer to deliver from the hands of the oppressors. He did come to deliver them....but since he wasnt on the "clouds with Angels" They rejected Him, to wait for the "true" messiah to come as they envision from scriptures read.

What if we reject Him as well, and wait for a Christ to come as we envision from scriptures read.....?
 
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Andrewn

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What if we reject Him as well, and wait for a Christ to come as we envision from scriptures read.....?
Since we will be dead at that time and Jesus will resurrect our bodies, I don't see how their could be difficulty in distinguishing Him. Those who are still alive will also be transformed into glorious bodies. I hope you explain more your POV.
 
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RaymondG

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Since we will be dead at that time and Jesus will resurrect our bodies, I don't see how their could be difficulty in distinguishing Him. Those who are still alive will also be transformed into glorious bodies. I hope you explain more your POV.
There is no repentance in the grave. Salvation and eternal life comes now to those who seek it.....after which, death is not possible:

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
 
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Andrewn

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There is no repentance in the grave. Salvation and eternal life comes now to those who seek it.....after which, death is not possible: "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
I was referring to physical death. But theologically, you are right. As baptized Christians, we have been raised with Christ and will be with Him in Paradise when our mortal bodies decompose.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is as related to Christ's current presence in the world.
 
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RaymondG

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I was referring to physical death. But theologically, you are right. As baptized Christians, we have been raised with Christ and will be with Him in Paradise when our mortal bodies decompose.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is as related to Christ's current presence in the world.
Do you believe the verse I quoted, to be referring to something other than physical life?
 
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Please do not accuse me of ignoring biblical teachings in favor of selected verses. I don't do that. When I start a thread, I start it to learn from others, not to "sell" an idea. What are the verses that prove Lord Jesus is _not_ in the world? quoting verses that prove the Holy Spirit is in the word doesn't answer this question.


Yes, this is what Newtheran said, also. And I do not disagree. He will return again, physically, in the future. But the Holy Son is God. And God is immutable. The incarnation did not limit Him to one place. There are multiple verses saying that He is with us and He is in us, now. How do you handle these?

Why did the Lord say, "Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don't go away the Counselor will not come to you. If I go, I will send him to you," John 16:7?
We don't need the physical presence of Jesus with us, because we have the Holy Spirit dwelling right inside of us. It is the Holy Spirit who is present in the world, in every genuine believer. He is representing Jesus. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are in such unity, that having the Holy Spirit in us is the same as having Jesus in us. This is the meaning of "Christ in us, the hope of glory".

By the way, I think you went 2+2=5 by thinking I am accusing you of anything. When I mentioned the problem, it was more in the light bulb than anywhere else.
 
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Why do you believe this? And If he does return Physically, how do you know he would not be rejected like He was the "1st" time? Just like many differ in beliefs about whether or not he is still here now, many differ in belief on how He should return......so he will return in a way that many believe is incorrect.... How, then, would we know that we would accept Him.....specially if He appears as lowly as a carpenter's son....and not on chariots of fire like most now and back then expect?
I think the Bible is quite clear about the the nature of His return. I guess to find out from the Biblical view, is to actually read the Bible.
 
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RaymondG

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I think the Bible is quite clear about the the nature of His return. I guess to find out from the Biblical view, is to actually read the Bible.
The Scripture was quite clear about the nature of His return 2000+ years ago, to the Masters of the Scripture then as well......Which is why they rejected Him when he came. To believe that we know more about scripture than the ones who dedicate their whole lives to it's study and therefore are less likely to dismiss Christ, is a claim that I would not make....
 
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