NC deputy lawsuit: I was fired for refusing to train a woman

essentialsaltes · Aug 8, 2019

Torres said he was fired from the Lee County Sheriff’s Office after declining to train a new female hire alone — a violation of his Christian beliefs under the so-called Billy Graham rule. In a lawsuit filed Wednesday in North Carolina federal court, the former deputy is now seeking more than $300,000 in damages for religious discrimination.

“Torres holds the strong and sincere religious belief that the Holy Bible prohibits him, as a married man, from being alone for extended periods with a female who is not his wife,” the suit states.

“The job duty of training female deputies, in such a manner, violates (Torres’) religious beliefs against being alone for periods of time with female(s) who is/are not his wife and leaving the appearance of sinful conduct on his part,” the suit states.

Torres said he asked for a religious accommodation that would exempt him from the training in July 2017, according to the lawsuit, but he said his sergeant ultimately denied the request.

Note that we only have his side of things. But let's assume he's right that this is why he was fired. And certainly there may be issues of whether the sheriffs did what they needed to do in terms of accommodation and whether they did what they shouldn't have done in regards to his claim of retaliation.

But after the training, when she was on the force, certainly his job duty might involve working with her. Is it a reasonable accommodation to make sure he is never partnered with a female officer? Or can employers say, "We hire both men and women; if you can't work with someone, then maybe you can't work here."

Nithavela · Aug 8, 2019

Dave-W · Aug 8, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
Or can employers say, "We hire both men and women; if you can't work with someone, then maybe you can't work here."

Federal EEO rules dictate that reasonable accommodations be made in such cases. Religion is a protected class. That is no different than requiring an observant Jew or Islam adherent be present at a pig roast.

If he was fired and filed suit, the onus is on the department to show the accommodation was NOT reasonable.

Hank77 · Aug 8, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
Or can employers say, "We hire both men and women; if you can't work with someone, then maybe you can't work here."

Nithavela · Aug 8, 2019

Dave-W said:
Federal EEO rules dictate that reasonable accommodations be made in such cases. Religion is a protected class. That is no different than requiring an observant Jew or Islam adherent be present at a pig roast.

If he was fired and filed suit, the onus is on the department to show the accommodation was NOT reasonable.

Do you think that the christian religion mandates men and women not to spend time together alone unless they are married?

GoldenBoy89 · Aug 8, 2019

How would,

“My deeply held religious convictions won’t allow me to work with a black person”

Hold up?

Willie T · Aug 8, 2019

I can see an objection to, perhaps, the close physical contact required during certain aspects of an officer's training. But not being wiling to spend time alone with a female officer, (to me), is a clear indication that you really do need to look for another line of work.

It might have been better if they had accommodated his wishes by assigning him desk duty till he could locate another job.

usexpat97 · Aug 8, 2019

I think he wins. They can shoot dogs dead all day and not get fired. They can shoot black people and not get fired. This guy got fired for insubordination for refusing to be in a squad car all day with a female. If religion had not played a factor--while the police department would have had the right to fire him for cause--in all likelihood they would not have. But because religion did play a part, they do not have the right to fire him.

Judgement $100,000 for the plaintiff.

Ophiolite · Aug 8, 2019

Nithavela said:
Do you think that the christian religion mandates men and women not to spend time together alone unless they are married?

One would think that the Christian religion, sound ethics and common sense would all say the same thing: if you are married, or in a committed relationship then, when alone with another, just behave yourself. (And if gossiping tongues wish to suggest something else, let them stew in their own narrow, mean-spirited vitriol.)

Willie T · Aug 8, 2019

It seems these "deeply held religious convictions" would also preclude his ability to kill an offender in the line of duty. (Sounds like a bit of insincere "cherry picking" to me)

Dave-W · Aug 8, 2019

Nithavela said:
Do you think that the christian religion mandates men and women not to spend time together alone unless they are married?

Actually, it is a doctrine in a subset of Christianity, mostly American evangelical and fundamental Christianity.

The origin of the so-called "Billy Graham rule" (aka the Pence rule) was a product of an incident that happened to the famous evangelist back around 1960. He was in New York and staying on the top floor of a high rise hotel. He got into the elevator to go to the lobby for some reason and on his way down a young woman also got into that elevator. Just the 2 of them. Seeing who it was, she immediately disrobed and when the elevator opened in the lobby, she ran out naked screaming "RAPE RAPE!!!!" Quite the stir it caused. And their interpretation of this verse caused even the evangelical community to blame Dr Graham:

1 Thessalonians 5:22 KJV
Abstain from all appearance of evil.

"Appearance" being taken to mean if it can possibly be construed to look bad, you have to avoid it.

usexpat97 · Aug 8, 2019

Ophiolite said:
One would think that the Christian religion, sound ethics and common sense would all say the same thing: if you are married, or in a committed relationship then, when alone with another, just behave yourself.

It's not always yourself whom you have to worry about.

Dave-W · Aug 8, 2019

Willie T said:
It seems these "deeply held religious convictions" would also preclude his ability to kill an offender in the line of duty. (Sounds like a bit of insincere "cherry picking" to me)

In evangelical america, issues of sexual morality take precedence over issues of violence.

Besides, there are plenty examples of offenders being executed in the bible.

Ophiolite · Aug 8, 2019

usexpat97 said:
It's not always yourself whom you have to worry about.

I'm not sure why that is relevant. It takes two to tango. Perhaps you could clarify.

essentialsaltes · Aug 8, 2019

Nithavela said:
Do you think that the christian religion mandates men and women not to spend time together alone unless they are married?

Whether it does or it doesn't is irrelevant. As long as he believes it sincerely, that's his religious belief.

The US government from its foundation doesn't want to have to decide who is 'correctly' following any particular religion. The founders knew that that road leads to burning people at the stake.

essentialsaltes · Aug 8, 2019

Ophiolite said:
I'm not sure why that is relevant. It takes two to tango. Perhaps you could clarify.

I think the implication is that one can be falsely accused.

usexpat97 · Aug 8, 2019

Ophiolite said:
I'm not sure why that is relevant. It takes two to tango.

That may be true for the tango, but when you're working with Potiphar's wife, it only takes one.

Shiloh Raven · Aug 8, 2019

Ophiolite said:
One would think that the Christian religion, sound ethics and common sense would all say the same thing: if you are married, or in a committed relationship then, when alone with another, just behave yourself. (And if gossiping tongues wish to suggest something else, let them stew in their own narrow, mean-spirited vitriol.)

I wonder if most Christian men need the boundaries of the Billy Graham rule for them to stay faithful and not cheat on their wives or significant other. Are they not capable of self-control otherwise?

essentialsaltes said:
I think the implication is that one can be falsely accused.

Okay, that makes sense.

Tom 1 · Aug 8, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
Torres said he was fired from the Lee County Sheriff’s Office after declining to train a new female hire alone — a violation of his Christian beliefs under the so-called Billy Graham rule. In a lawsuit filed Wednesday in North Carolina federal court, the former deputy is now seeking more than $300,000 in damages for religious discrimination.

“Torres holds the strong and sincere religious belief that the Holy Bible prohibits him, as a married man, from being alone for extended periods with a female who is not his wife,” the suit states.

“The job duty of training female deputies, in such a manner, violates (Torres’) religious beliefs against being alone for periods of time with female(s) who is/are not his wife and leaving the appearance of sinful conduct on his part,” the suit states.

Torres said he asked for a religious accommodation that would exempt him from the training in July 2017, according to the lawsuit, but he said his sergeant ultimately denied the request.

Note that we only have his side of things. But let's assume he's right that this is why he was fired. And certainly there may be issues of whether the sheriffs did what they needed to do in terms of accommodation and whether they did what they shouldn't have done in regards to his claim of retaliation.

But after the training, when she was on the force, certainly his job duty might involve working with her. Is it a reasonable accommodation to make sure he is never partnered with a female officer? Or can employers say, "We hire both men and women; if you can't work with someone, then maybe you can't work here."

I can't see how that could have any practical application, wanting to avoid ever working or being alone with a woman as a police officer. How could that be accomodated? Maybe if there were only a tiny number of female police officers. As an idea it's completely unrealistic. Also, how would you prove that as a biblical teaching? It could be argued as a principle with roots in other biblical teachings, but the bible doesn't actually teach anything of the sort in any direct way.

Shiloh Raven · Aug 8, 2019

GoldenBoy89 said:
How would,

“My deeply held religious convictions won’t allow me to work with a black person”

Hold up?

I think that's a good point.

NC deputy lawsuit: I was fired for refusing to train a woman

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