Enough is enough... Everyone here should contact Sen. McConnell...

Speedwell

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Who suggested taking away the guns from the good guys?
It's part of the narrative that any kind of gun control at all is a slippery slope leading to wholesale confiscation.
 
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cow451

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It's part of the narrative that any kind of gun control at all is a slippery slope leading to wholesale confiscation.
Well, Pilgrim, I don’t think the government is coming after your musket.
 
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renniks

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That's certainly the premise of your previous arguments..

Doesn't matter, based on the previous sentence. If they already have guns, the right to have one is moot.
Do you advocate arming everyone? By everyone I mean all.
I already answered the question. I don't know what more you want.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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I would support arming the law abiding citizens who want to be able to protect themselves in those cities and training them. Not everybody legally can get a gun. What's your alternative? You're not going to destroy every gun in the world, and taking guns away from legally armed citizens, only compounds the problem. I would say that nearly every house in my area contains guns. We have millions of people in the woods with the guns on the first day of deer season, and fatalities are extremely rare. The guns are not the problem...the intent of evil men is.

Do you have any concerns with arming and training bad people who are just biding their time? Afghanistan shot at the United States with weapons sold to them by the United States using tactics taught to them by the United States. You would be giving future mass shooters the means and strategy to carry out a mass shooting. Does that concern you?
 
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Speedwell

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Well, Pilgrim, I don’t think the government is coming after your musket.
And I intend to keep it. If Canada ever invades us with muzzle-loading black powder weapons, who's going to be ready, huh?
 
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FenderTL5

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I already answered the question. I don't know what more you want.
OK, so your answer is no.
You don't believe that everyone should be armed. That would have to mean you agree with some level of regulation on guns. I'm trying to determine where you draw the line.
In the view of many 2nd Amendment* adherents, there's no proviso on who can bear arms.
Seemingly you would limit it.
The question then becomes - where? Then, how do you enforce it?

*A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 
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renniks

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And I intend to keep it. If Canada ever invades us with muzzle-loading black powder weapons, who's going to be ready, huh?
You can make some very potent weapons that operate with black powder. That's another issue, we're probably going to have the technology, if we don't already,s anyone that wants to can make a gun at home, which kind of makes the whole discussion moot.
Do you have any concerns with arming and training bad people who are just biding their time? Afghanistan shot at the United States with weapons sold to them by the United States using tactics taught to them by the United States. You would be giving future mass shooters the means and strategy to carry out a mass shooting. Does that concern you?
In most of the country, anyone who doesn't have a record, can get a gun, and attend a training class. Out of all those legal gun owners, you have far more protecting themselves and their families then going off the rails. You have far more lives saved, by allowing law-abiding people to have guns. So no I don't have any concerns with training law-abiding citizens.
 
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LostMarbels

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What we need is some sort of program to educate criminals about their state's approved firearms rosters. Most criminals are far to careless about what type of firearm they use, and they need to be correctly informed so we can get more law abiding criminals only brandishing approved weaponry when they commit a crime. We might even try brightly colored and well lit gun free zone signage and scratch & sniff stickers to inform criminals that there just some areas they are not allowed to shoot unarmed people in. Hopefully, with enough effort, and public awareness, we can get criminals to stop using unapproved weaponry in zones deemed as gun free.
 
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renniks

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OK, so your answer is no.
You don't believe that everyone should be armed. That would have to mean you agree with some level of regulation on guns. I'm trying to determine where you draw the line.
In the view of many 2nd Amendment* adherents, there's no proviso on who can bear arms.
Seemingly you would limit it.
The question then becomes - where? Then, how do you enforce it?

*A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
There are already laws in place that don't allow felons to possess weapons. Of course the catch-22 is many felons are going to get them illegally. Several years ago, if I picked up a neighbor, who was walking along the road, carrying a rifle. Now this was rather foolish of me, you might think, but here in the country, when someone flags your down, you stop and help, it's what good neighbors do. At any rate, once he got into the vehicle, I could see he was highly agitated, and talking nonsense. He made some comment about taking him where he wanted to go, and then cocked the lever action rifle he had. About that time, I believe he also looked over, and noticed a 22 revolver on my hip. So I let him off down the road a couple miles. Honestly, I never even got excited until later, when I begin to worry that he would hurt or threaten someone else. So I called the police, told them about the incident, and they told me he'd already been picked up along the road, some distance from there. Additional information I picked up from another source later, was that he was banging on someone's door with his rifle, and they came out with their handgun and chased him away. I would guess, that between the drug charges and firearm charges, he can no longer legally possess a weapon, but that doesn't mean I'm not more cautious now. So you can see why I support armed citizens. I suspect their are thousands of similar stories that happen in this country every day, but how many of those does a news report?
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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In most of the country, anyone who doesn't have a record, can get a gun, and attend a training class. Out of all those legal gun owners, you have far more protecting themselves and their families then going off the rails. You have far more lives saved, by allowing law-abiding people to have guns. So no I don't have any concerns with training law-abiding citizens.

But how well are they able to do that? Think how long it takes you to get your gun out locate the target and neutralize said target. Now think of how many bullets you could fire in that same amount of time. Arming the citizenry isn’t going to work because the criminal always has the element of surprise unless you are not allowed in public unless someone has a gun pointed at you which is insane.

As for using an armed populace to scare criminals into submission, some of them aren’t planning on surviving, they are going the suicide by cop route and going to take as many down with them as they go. Those people have no fear of being shot so an armed populace isn’t going to work.

Then we have to get into how accurate and good at deterring targets people are. Your world is going to have a lot of dead and injured people from friendly fire. A criminal starts his spree in the center of a room and it is going to be shooting circle. That’s assuming they start shooting at the right person and don’t start shooting at the person trying to shoot the criminal. Those who live by the sword die by the sword and there would be a lot of dying in your world.

What we need is some sort of program to educate criminals about their state's approved firearms rosters. Most criminals are far to careless about what type of firearm they use, and they need to be correctly informed so we can get more law abiding criminals only brandishing approved weaponry when they commit a crime. We might even try brightly colored and well lit gun free zone signage and scratch & sniff stickers to inform criminals that there just some areas they are not allowed to shoot unarmed people in. Hopefully, with enough effort, and public awareness, we can get criminals to stop using unapproved weaponry in zones deemed as gun free.

We need some areas the public aren’t allowed to bring guns. The top of my head I’m thinking of are bars. You do allow people who have been drinking alcohol to have easy access to fire arms. I’ve seen enough fights at bars to know that is a Wild West shootout waiting to happen. Casinos are no good. The streets would run red with the blood of blackjack dealers. I don’t know how many dead district attorney and judges you would need to know courthouses aren’t going to allow guns. Prisons, for obvious reasons. Sporting events aren’t a good idea.
 
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LostMarbels

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We need some areas the public aren’t allowed to bring guns. The top of my head I’m thinking of are bars. You do allow people who have been drinking alcohol to have easy access to fire arms. I’ve seen enough fights at bars to know that is a Wild West shootout waiting to happen. Casinos are no good. The streets would run red with the blood of blackjack dealers. I don’t know how many dead district attorney and judges you would need to know courthouses aren’t going to allow guns. Prisons, for obvious reasons. Sporting events aren’t a good idea.

This is why we need to educate criminals so they do not break gun laws while committing a crime.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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This is why we need to educate criminals so they do not break gun laws while committing a crime.

I’m not overly afraid of criminals in those areas. The criminals will be there either way though by making them gun free, casing the place beforehand becomes a risky venture for the criminal. I’m more afraid of your normal law abiding citizen having his/her emotions and/or alcohol getting the best of him/her and gunning someone down to settle the score.
 
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LostMarbels

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I’m not overly afraid of criminals in those areas. The criminals will be there either way though by making them gun free, casing the place beforehand becomes a risky venture for the criminal. I’m more afraid of your normal law abiding citizen having his/her emotions and/or alcohol getting the best of him/her and gunning someone down to settle the score.

The question posed is how do we get more law abiding criminals that are sensitive to gun free zones, and will not use unapproved weapons while committing crimes?

Reason dictates without the criminals participation, no crime or gun violence is prevented. So how do we get someone who is about to enter a gun free zone to kill people, to only assault non gun free zones with approved weapons?
 
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Darkhorse

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But how well are they able to do that? Think how long it takes you to get your gun out locate the target and neutralize said target. Now think of how many bullets you could fire in that same amount of time. Arming the citizenry isn’t going to work because the criminal always has the element of surprise unless you are not allowed in public unless someone has a gun pointed at you which is insane.

This is true for police as well as citizens - but we arm them (and rightly so)...
 
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FenderTL5

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The question posed is how do we get more law abiding criminals that are sensitive to gun free zones, and will not use unapproved weapons while committing crimes?

Reason dictates without the criminals participation, no crime or gun violence is prevented. So how do we get someone who is about to enter a gun free zone to kill people, to only assault non gun free zones with approved weapons?
I'm proposing the total opposite. Arm everybody. Criminals, those with mental issues, everyone.
I'm thinking we should start issuing bb guns to kindergartners in order to develop a basic operational foundation.
By the time a child is in 2nd grade they should be carrying a .22 at all times. All high school students should have AR15s as a requirement.
All conflict can be resolved with enough firepower. If everyone is armed, crime will be eliminated entirely.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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The question posed is how do we get more law abiding criminals that are sensitive to gun free zones, and will not use unapproved weapons while committing crimes?

Reason dictates without the criminals participation, no crime or gun violence is prevented. So how do we get someone who is about to enter a gun free zone to kill people, to only assault non gun free zones with approved weapons?

I told you my concern isn’t from the criminals who will commit their crime whether there is a sign or not. My concern is of people who are going to end up committing a crime of passion or a drunken mistake. That person can be stopped by gun free zones.

So the simple answer to your question: we don’t.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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This is true for police as well as citizens - but we arm them (and rightly so)...

The military as well. I pretty much described Foucault’s Boomerang where by teaching someone what you know you also inadvertently teach them how to defeat you. But police and military go through more vetting than I’m sure would be required of each citizen if we planned to arm and train them.
 
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LostMarbels

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I told you my concern isn’t from the criminals who will commit their crime whether there is a sign or not.

My question then would be, who is affected by gun restrictions if criminals will commit the crime anyways?

My concern is of people who are going to end up committing a crime of passion or a drunken mistake. That person can be stopped by gun free zones.

First of all, I can not be held accountable for your fear or suspicion. I would never murder anyone in cold blood. Secondly going back to the original point, what is stopping the individual from returning with an illegal weapon and killing people he knows will be unarmed?

So the simple answer to your question: we don’t.

So the onus is on law abiding citizens then? They need to make sure they don't have a weapon. How does that stop everyone in that area from being gunned down?
 
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