Dealing with the underlying cause of mass shootings

What has it been called besides Christmas?

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Holiday.

Ken Rank said:

They do... but the US is unique. I am not sure if any of those nations you mentioned your a purely capitalistic representative republic like the US

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On capitalism, Marx only developed his ideas around 1850. Even if we assumed that all European countries instantly became non-capitalistic, most of those countries were Christian and capitalist for centuries. Some European countries are still monarchies of a sort, which surely is a more 'Judeo-Christian' form of government than a republic.

Ken Rank said:

That is ridiculous and not my point at all. The use of Christmas was just meant as an example of where Christians have held something dear and did not stand up and say a word when "Christmas" offended an atheist family and the town changed the name to something generic. By the way, I haven't celebrated Christmas in years.... it wasn't the point.

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But MY point perhaps is that we don't need to put a band-aid label on something that already exists, and every single day. We don't need to wait for a week in December to express our "Christmas" joy, or force others who practice different religions or no religion at all to our views. Even as Christians, we don't share the same views or celebrate holidays in the same way regardless of what they are called. Who really cares what they are called? It's not stopping me or you or anyone from celebrating (or not celebrating) them. What is dear to me isn't "Christmas" but the *person* of Jesus Christ, and he isn't seasonal.

Ken Rank said:

I agree... Paul wrote, "in all you do in word or deed, do so in the name of the Lord." To a Hebrew, that would have meant, "in all you do in word or deed, do so in the character and reputation of the Lord." In other words... the Lord should be seen in your actions and heard in your words and when that isn't the case, we actually profane His name (character and reputation). It is on those who know the Lord to show the world WHY there is a better way that doesn't include decrees by man.

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It is true that Christianity should be reflected in daily activities. However there must not be very many Christians who understand this, because if there were this world would be a very different place. On the other hand there simply might not be enough true Christians to make a difference in the world. That God will spared the world "for the elect's sake" seems to bear this out.

I think there are as many reasons for mass shootings as there are mass shootings.

Ken Rank said:

Most Muslims don't include 'Isaac and Jacob"

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Yeah, they do. It's in the Quran.

but regardless... I should have just said, "The God of Israel" and been done with it.

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Anything to avoid Jesus, it appears. Very, very weird.

And I am not placing all blame on Christianity... there are many factors. I am saying on a CHRISTIAN FORUM that we (those of us who profess a faith in the God of Israel through His messiah) can do better.

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On that we agree.

Also, some explanation or evidence for twinkle season would be nice. As I mentioned above, all google has is links to some anime.

Tanj said:

Yeah, they do. It's in the Quran.

Anything to avoid Jesus, it appears. Very, very weird.

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Mohammed mentions many of the patriarchs in the Koran, also Jesus. The bible has a specific purpose in mentioning Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and it likely has to do with the foundations of Islam, that being the person of Ishmael, who the Muslims insist was the son who was to be sacrificed, not Isaac. God makes it clear that the succession was to be through Isaac, not Ishmael.

Ken Rank said:

If I say so? You could have asked for examples, like where "Twinkle Season" came to be. Regardless, that isn't the point... if you look out over this politically correct world and don't see that we have failed in standing up against the allowance of sin to become the norm in our society, than we just don't agree. Have a great day.

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I don't generally expect my non-believing neighbors to come to church, receive the Sacraments, recite the Creed, etc. So why would I expect non-Christians to participate in the Church's liturgical calendar?

-CryptoLutheran

Ken Rank said:

Pittsburgh started using "Twinkle Season" years ago. And historically... the 10 days to 2 weeks students had off in this country were called, "Christmas Break." Since it included more than just that one day, and because it offends SOME atheists and non-Christians.... it has pretty much become "Winter Break" or some variation over the last decade or two. But again, what we call that time isn't my point. My point is that we have many factors that create mass shooters. ONE OF THEM, I believe (which means you are free to believe whatever you want) is that those of faith, which once dominated this nation, have become silent and as such, laws have been passed that have created a modern society that is all but unrecognizable to the moral standards this nation was built upon.

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And yet America wasn't any any better--in terms of overall morality--a hundred years ago. Not with Jim Crow laws, Segregation, lynching, etc.

Further, overall violent crime rates have actually been steadily declining over the last quarter century.

-CryptoLutheran

Ken Rank said:

The point I am trying to make is we have sat back and allowed laws like these to be passed. We didn't stand up... if 70% of the country is (was?) Christian... NO WAY should laws like these ever saw the light of day. But... we remained silent... and the longer we remain silent the more decay we will see come upon this land.

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If 70% of the country was Christian, we wouldn't have founded the country based on exploitation and murder of indigenous people as well as black slavery, and that's just one part of the icing. The "good old days" of Manifest Destiny with the United States as the "New Jerusalem" weren't all that great for a lot of people. Or Christian, for that matter. Let's take off the rose-colored glasses. The U.S. has always been secular and has always had laws that were oppressive to at least part of the population.

If we really want to be more Christian as a nation, we will love God by loving our neighbors.

OldWiseGuy said:

Mohammed mentions many of the patriarchs in the Koran, also Jesus. The bible has a specific purpose in mentioning Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and it likely has to do with the foundations of Islam, that being the person of Ishmael, who the Muslims insist was the son who was to be sacrificed, not Isaac. God makes it clear that the succession was to be through Isaac, not Ishmael.

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I know. Does any of that have relevance to the OPs purpose in mentioning them?

Saw this earlier:

bekkilyn said:

If 70% of the country was Christian, we wouldn't have founded the country based on exploitation and murder of indigenous people as well as black slavery, and that's just one part of the icing. The "good old days" of Manifest Destiny with the United States as the "New Jerusalem" weren't all that great for a lot of people. Or Christian, for that matter. Let's take off the rose-colored glasses. The U.S. has always been secular and has always had laws that were oppressive to at least part of the population.

If we really want to be more Christian as a nation, we will love God by loving our neighbors.

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Well said, my friend.

Ken Rank said:

The sin nature is part of it, I don't deny that. But those who know better, who know what God desires, who were once a great majority in this country (even if they didn't always act like it) are on the decline. So much so that recent polls (@Hank77 ) show the amount of devout Christians (i.e. church once a week) down to the point where 40% go once a month. There is a prophesied great falling away and I think we are witnessing it.

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I know it's easy to gloss over this... Original sin isn't something we can just turn on and off... So it's not really a workable solution...

I think there's also another thing here... Proverbs 7. Simple solutions offered by those with ulterior motives are seductive - yet usually end up going very badly for us....

Violent events have been an issue in the USA since before our founding. We have had a LOT of smart, capable, and hardworking leaders. A majority of them Christian. If there was a simple straightforward solution - we would have already found it. Yet the annual number of these events has been the same for over 100 years.

Compare this to modern Japan, NZ, or Aus - none of those nations EVER had a real problem with mass shootings... And so thinking we could get their "Solutions" to work here is ridiculously naive because they never actually had our "Problem"....

Compare this to nations that DO or recently did have problems with mass shootings/violent events and we find that solutions are NEVER simple and straightforward - or the solutions that did work were so unbelievablely brutal as to baffle us... For example feudal Japan or pre-1998 peace treaty Northern Ireland.

For example Pre-soviet Eastern Europe had a LOT of revolutionary terror violence.... It was they unspeakable brutality of Soviet rule that literally tortured and murdered anybody (and often their family as well) who was suspected of non-patriotic behavior or ginning up a terrorist attack.... To me - adopting that strategy would be the greater evil....

Feudal Japan was sort of the same - when the Emperor's armies murdered everybody who fought against him...

Anyway.. Thanks for your continued insight.