Dilemma for Attending a Secular University

tuliplane said:

What is "I" trouble?

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If you're asking, then it's unlikely that you have it. It's generally indicated by posts consisting largely of references to one's self. Words like I, me, my, mine, I'll, I'd, I've, I'm, etc., feature prominently.

Here's a pioneering example:

...“I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the most High."
(Isaiah 14:13-14)
.

What is your field of study? What courses will you be taking? It would be worth getting some reviews of the professors, try to get a sense about how objective they will be about marking papers with views different from theirs.

How might you be able to cover these topics in a neutral way? There may be times you can talk about what others believe and why they believe it without necessarily stating your opinion on it? How far are you willing to go to do your own research and find sources to back up views that may challenge what is expected? Do you have the faith to stand out if this is what God calls you to do?

It being an online school seems to limit peer influence, but how much influence will your professors have? University classes on existentialism shook my brother of his 'right to be sure', to where he is agnostic at best.

tuliplane said:

So I recently graduated with an associate's and wanted to finish up by getting my bachelor's through an online degree program. I had really wanted to attend a certain university and got accepted there. I pretty much got settled in, paid my acceptance fee, completed the online orientation, went through the headache of submitting most of my documentation, etc. and only just found out some of what they will be teaching.

I've attended secular colleges before, but they weren't super overt in their teachings. This school on the other hand is really vocal in their immorality and agendas.

My question is, is it wrong of me as a Christian to participate there? I know on one hand Paul tells us that to not associate with the immoral that we would have to leave this world, yet on the other, the Bible tells us to flee immorality, not to love the world, and that we cannot have two masters. If I have a choice, should I choose a school that is less pushy in their beliefs? I'm really afraid of supporting something wrong and I want to make sure I am steadfast in Christ. I really just don't know if it's a bad thing if I attend and I would like to hear opinions and advice. Prayers are appreciated too as I try to make a decision - as class starts in 15 days!

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It's not wrong for you to attend such a school if you are well-grounded in your faith and the Bible. If you do attend that school, find and attend a Christian student campus group based on the Bible and a local church that preaches the Good News in Jesus with a college or young adults' group. Set your alarm every Sunday. You have my prayers.

You are in the world but not of the world; you can be in the school but not of the school. You don't need to embrace its beliefs.

God's Word already tells us:

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked [joined] together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Beside that the Lord Jesus Christ tells us if we wish to follow Him, we must deny our own will and turn away from it.
All now that remains is either we will deny our own will, or else we will insist upon it and over-rule His.

tuliplane said:

So I recently graduated with an associate's and wanted to finish up by getting my bachelor's through an online degree program. I had really wanted to attend a certain university and got accepted there. I pretty much got settled in, paid my acceptance fee, completed the online orientation, went through the headache of submitting most of my documentation, etc. and only just found out some of what they will be teaching.

I've attended secular colleges before, but they weren't super overt in their teachings. This school on the other hand is really vocal in their immorality and agendas.

My question is, is it wrong of me as a Christian to participate there? I know on one hand Paul tells us that to not associate with the immoral that we would have to leave this world, yet on the other, the Bible tells us to flee immorality, not to love the world, and that we cannot have two masters. If I have a choice, should I choose a school that is less pushy in their beliefs? I'm really afraid of supporting something wrong and I want to make sure I am steadfast in Christ. I really just don't know if it's a bad thing if I attend and I would like to hear opinions and advice. Prayers are appreciated too as I try to make a decision - as class starts in 15 days!

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Are you attending college to be indoctrinated or are you attending to learn how to think? If it's the former, you're going for the wrong reasons. You can learn how to think by countering the left-wing nonsense on campus. Beyond that, there's nothing wrong with learning about what the other side thinks. When Paul preached to the Athenians in Acts he knew and understood the arguments of the Epicureans and Stoics. He then countered their arguments with sound teaching about Christ. The key though is he knew their philosophy before preaching to them.

I have degrees from a state university and a Catholic university. I can't say there was an once of difference between the two in teaching subject matter.

seeking.IAM said:

I have degrees from a state university and a Catholic university. I can't say there was an once of difference between the two in teaching subject matter.

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Agree. There once was a difference, however.

Today, a person wanting what our inquirer apparently is seeking can find it, but it takes some careful looking.

Redwingfan9 said:

Are you attending college to be indoctrinated or are you attending to learn how to think? If it's the former, you're going for the wrong reasons. You can learn how to think by countering the left-wing nonsense on campus.

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Sometimes yes (which is true and needs to be said) but sometimes not. Ask the members of the Duke University lacrosse team about that. Their lives were close to ruined by the university wrongly treating them all as rapists and not even making it right when the accusation was disproved. And something similar happened with that fraternity at the U of Virginia.

That's why I noted that the universities do not come in a handy either-or condition which we can easily size up. There is a range. Sometimes their craziness can be opposed or countered or ignored, but not always.

Albion said:

Sometimes yes (which is true and needs to be said) but sometimes not. Ask the members of the Duke University lacrosse team about that. Their lives were close to ruined by the university wrongly treating them all as rapists and not even making it right when the accusation was disproved. And something similar happened with that fraternity at the U of Virginia.

That's why I noted that the universities do not come in a handy either-or condition which we can easily size up. There is a range. Sometimes their craziness can be opposed or countered or ignored, but not always.

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Those issues are separate from what's taking place in the classroom. Let's also not bury our heads in the sand about the Duke Lacrosse team, they hired that woman as a stripper. While they were innocent of rape, they still went out and hired a stripper. As for the UVA frat, obviously they were unjustly punished based on a completely fabricated story. That said, we would be foolish to pretend like frats aren't notorious for heavy drinking and illicit sex.

As Christians we ought to keep away from all of this stuff. The best way to not be accused of rape is to not engage in sexual conduct before marriage. That ought to allow a Christian student to focus on his school work, which is the whole point of college in the first place.

Redwingfan9 said:

Those issues are separate from what's taking place in the classroom.

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Not really. There are cases in which students can be disciplined for using the wrong pronoun, and the conservative clubs that some posters are recommending as a remedy have been banned or assessed huge fees by universities simply for being not-PC. There is a website that reports on this stuff and much of the news you can find reported there would curl your hair.

Let's also not bury our heads in the sand about the Duke Lacrosse team, they hired that woman as a stripper. While they were innocent of rape....

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Stop there. That is the point. The false accusation led to police action and the boys were lucky to have evidence that disproved the claims or else they would have been expelled (and I think some were anyway) and criminally prosecuted. The university did not care; it was going to side with the 'me:too' movement, no matter what.

As for the UVA frat, obviously they were unjustly punished based on a completely fabricated story. That said, we would be foolish to pretend like frats aren't notorious for heavy drinking and illicit sex.

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Do you hear yourself?! They were innocent of the charges but the university preferred to believe otherwise and took punitive action against the innocents. Oh yes, they did some other things, legal things, that good Christian boys ought not to have done, so "they got what they deserved." God save us all from that sort of justice at the hands of the government!

Albion said:

Not really. There are cases in which students can be disciplined for using the wrong pronoun, and the conservative clubs that some posters are recommending as a remedy have been banned or assessed huge fees by universities simply for being not-PC. There is a website that reports on this stuff and much of the news you can find reported there would curl your hair.


Stop there. That is the point. The false accusation led to police action and the boys were lucky to have evidence that disproved the claims or else they would have been expelled (and I think some were anyway) and criminally prosecuted. The university did not care; it was going to side with the 'me:too' movement, no matter what.


Do you hear yourself?! They were innocent of the charges but the university preferred to believe otherwise and took punitive action against the innocents. Oh yes, they did some other things, legal things, that good Christian boys ought not to have done, so "they got what they deserved." God save us all from that sort of justice at the hands of the government!

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Simmer down now! While I'll grant that Campus Reform has a long list of issues that have taken place on campus from discipline over pronouns to conservative speakers being uninvited to speak. A little perspective goes a long way. There are thousands of universities and nearly 20 million students in college in the US. The number of incidents is terribly small in light of the hype that surrounds them. I agree that there are problems, Title IX in particular is a problem and the hard left bent of most schools is a problem. However, in perspective the number of incidents is incredibly low.

Duke didn't side with the "me too" movement as it didn't exist in 2006. If Duke had suspended the team for hiring a stripper for a party, I wouldn't have the slightest problem with it. Quite frankly, the issue in that case really had nothing to do with Duke University. The issue was the prosecutors office, which engaged in misconduct in its investigation and prosecution that resulted in the prosecutor getting disbarred.

I never said the UVA guys "got what they deserved." My point is that we shouldn't be putting a bunch of drunk whoremongers on a pedestal while pretending this is what will happen to good Christians at a school like UVA. Were they falsely accused? Yes. Are they an example of Title IX injustice? Yes. Is their situation something Christians can expect to find themselves in? Certainly not if believers on campus are making an effort at living a Christian life.

It would be more helpful to know which college and which program of study. Some colleges, like Reed, Oberlin, and Evergreen are so committed to advancing secular progressivism that they have no room for a Christian. Others tolerate Christians in some fields of study. Others are friendly to people of faith.

Having completed doctorate level study myself, these aren't your fathers or grandfather's universities and you have to be extremely cautious what and how you choose.

Even if you are an intelligent Christian with a strong personality the power dynamic is such that the leftists control your grades.

Newtheran said:

...Even if you are an intelligent Christian with a strong personality the power dynamic is such that the leftists control your grades.

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I wouldn't be as worried about the "leftists" as I would the non-Christians.

tuliplane said:

So I recently graduated with an associate's and wanted to finish up by getting my bachelor's through an online degree program. I had really wanted to attend a certain university and got accepted there. I pretty much got settled in, paid my acceptance fee, completed the online orientation, went through the headache of submitting most of my documentation, etc. and only just found out some of what they will be teaching.

I've attended secular colleges before, but they weren't super overt in their teachings. This school on the other hand is really vocal in their immorality and agendas.

My question is, is it wrong of me as a Christian to participate there? I know on one hand Paul tells us that to not associate with the immoral that we would have to leave this world, yet on the other, the Bible tells us to flee immorality, not to love the world, and that we cannot have two masters. If I have a choice, should I choose a school that is less pushy in their beliefs? I'm really afraid of supporting something wrong and I want to make sure I am steadfast in Christ. I really just don't know if it's a bad thing if I attend and I would like to hear opinions and advice. Prayers are appreciated too as I try to make a decision - as class starts in 15 days!

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If I have a choice, should I choose a school that is less pushy in their beliefs?

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You are already uncomfortable ... so if this could be done without much hassle/expense then might be wise to do so.

Otherwise, take and apply the good that you learn and ignore or dismiss that which is not good.

Keep your heart pure.

Proverbs 4:23
Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life.

May the Lord lead you. Amen

tuliplane said:

So I recently graduated with an associate's and wanted to finish up by getting my bachelor's through an online degree program. I had really wanted to attend a certain university and got accepted there. I pretty much got settled in, paid my acceptance fee, completed the online orientation, went through the headache of submitting most of my documentation, etc. and only just found out some of what they will be teaching.

I've attended secular colleges before, but they weren't super overt in their teachings. This school on the other hand is really vocal in their immorality and agendas.

My question is, is it wrong of me as a Christian to participate there? I know on one hand Paul tells us that to not associate with the immoral that we would have to leave this world, yet on the other, the Bible tells us to flee immorality, not to love the world, and that we cannot have two masters. If I have a choice, should I choose a school that is less pushy in their beliefs? I'm really afraid of supporting something wrong and I want to make sure I am steadfast in Christ. I really just don't know if it's a bad thing if I attend and I would like to hear opinions and advice. Prayers are appreciated too as I try to make a decision - as class starts in 15 days!

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I think I understand......I use to go through this every time I started a new year of college. When I think of all the hard work and exams and papers.....and smelly roommates, and public speaking etc... I think :" Why am i putting myself through this again!" Then I try to find every way and reason under the sun to get out of it.

Let me help you out. You will do fine....the year will go quick...studies will come easy, and you will make it out alive and with good grades. So fear not.

tuliplane said:

Thank you everyone for your insight and thoughtful replies! I have looked more into this university and determined that there was just too much against faith and values that was worth going. I am not against attending a secular university, but it becomes different when a college is more militant in their ideas and a student is forced to participate in their beliefs (such as writing papers, taking quizzes, etc. on the subject matter).

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I'm gad we could help.
May God bless you in your endevours.