Controversial faith question?

Sadly, no. Either they deceived others to think they were, or they themselves were deceived to think so, or both. I encourage you to go and read the parable of the sower in Matthew 13:1-23.

Celibate Life said:

If someone decides to leave the faith we’re they a follower of Jesus in the first place?

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Scripture seems to say yes. One can apostate. Judas did.

Acts of the Apostles 1

Celibate Life said:

If someone decides to leave the faith we’re they a follower of Jesus in the first place?

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That depends on whether or not they return again to the faith. Some people come back to faith in their death beds, so we never know.

Celibate Life said:

If someone decides to leave the faith we’re they a follower of Jesus in the first place?

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Yes cos people comeback

Celibate Life said:

If someone decides to leave the faith we’re they a follower of Jesus in the first place?

Click to expand...

That question is just another face of the OSAS vs. Arminianism dilemma.

It is my understanding that no one can become apostate without being a mature believer, first, and then, willfully abandoning their faith, according to Hebrews 6:4-6.

"For it is impossible for those who

1. were once enlightened, and
2. have tasted the heavenly gift, and
3. have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and
4. have tasted the good word of God and
5. [have tasted] the powers of the age to come,

if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."

To be CLEAR, that verse does not apply to

• unbelievers,
• new believers,
• those held in the grip of OCD or
• anyone else who still wants to be saved...!

Sabertooth said:

That question is just another face of the OSAS vs. Arminianism dilemma.

It is my understanding that no one can become apostate without being a mature believer, first, and then, willfully abandoning their faith, according to Hebrews 6:4-6.

"For it is impossible for those who

1. were once enlightened, and
2. have tasted the heavenly gift, and
3. have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and
4. have tasted the good word of God and
5. [have tasted] the powers of the age to come,

if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."

To be CLEAR, that verse does not apply to

• unbelievers,
• new believers,
• those held in the grip of OCD or
• anyone else who still wants to be saved...!

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"For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned. Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation." - Hebrew 6:7-9

In case some have missed what this is saying, I will rephrase it.

If rain falls, and the land produces a crop, it receives a blessing. If rain falls, and the land produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed...its end is to be burned. This is the difference between two kinds of individuals who profess the faith, and the apostate resembles the latter. Though we speak in this way toward you, we know that such things do not accompany those who have salvation in Christ.

Everyone wants to quote Hebrews 6:4-6, but they never explain verse 7-9. We cannot divorce these verses, it must be understood as a whole.

If they were truly saved then they will be back. If not in this life, then in heaven. When God puts His Spirit in us we are sealed. There is no revoking salvation on God's end or on ours. God Bless!

To be fair, there are those who have aligned themselves with Christianity without ever, personally, committing their life to Jesus.

When they don't see the power of God in their life, they mistakenly believe that they might be apostate, when they really just haven't gotten the rest of the story,* yet.

*Read in other languages.

This frequently happens with children raised in Christian homes. Many had religion not faith. As adults they question their beliefs and turn away. Some return and others don’t.

There are also those who leave due to harm they’ve experienced from others including the clergy.

Celibate Life said:

If someone decides to leave the faith we’re they a follower of Jesus in the first place?

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Jesus tells us the Parable of the Sower, sometimes the seed falls on the ground and takes root but is later choked out by the thorns and thistles.

However, Jesus also tells us the Parables of the Good Shepherd and the Prodigal Son. We have a God who is relentless in His love for us. The Good Shepherd seeks high and low over great distances to bring back the one lost lamb; the father of the prodigal rejoices at the return of the lost son.

Yes, apostasy is possible; but God is fierce in His grace.

-CryptoLutheran

Celibate Life said:

If someone decides to leave the faith we’re they a follower of Jesus in the first place?

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Probably not...

Celibate Life said:

If someone decides to leave the faith we’re they a follower of Jesus in the first place?

Click to expand...

Have you read in scripture about the many disciples who desert Jesus? (John 6:60-70)

Some like myself however wander away for years and then Hear His word to return.

If someone leaves the Faith, does it really matter either way, they don't seem to care.

How can someone become UN-Born Again, how does someone die to the Spirit, and become alive to the Flesh, Does the Holy Spirit say, "I give up goodbye"

JIMINZ said:

Does the Holy Spirit say, "I give up goodbye"

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"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,..." 1 Timothy 4:1-2 NKJV

Yes - but do they become "unborn again?"

Carl Emerson said:

Yes - but do they become "unborn again?"

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That is the OSAS/Arminianism dilemma that I alluded to, earlier.
If OSAS is correct, they weren't saved in the first place.
If Arminianism is correct, they did not maintain fellowship with God.

"21 But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right,* he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

24 But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die." Ezekiel 18:21-24 NKJV

But 1 John 1:9 [below, if we reach for it] restores us to the verse 21 standing!

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

*We can only do that through Jesus.

“Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18 NKJV