LDS LDS Say "Everyone gets what they desire"

Peter1000 said:

Anyone that believes in Jesus will be saved in heaven. But according to your works, you will find yourself either in the first heaven or the second heaven or the third heaven. The third heaven is mentioned in the bible. The first and second heavens are actually named in the bible.
First = Celestial, second = Terrestrial, look them up.

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I already looked it up a long time ago. The only mention of a third heaven was Paul saying that he knew a man who found himself caught up into the third heaven (2 Corinthians 2:12). Some have concluded that the first heaven is earths atmosphere, the second heaven is outer space, the third heaven is God's dwelling place. So it is understandable as to how Mormons come up with a "terrestrial/celestial. But there is absolutely nothing in scripture that even suggest some kind of works based hierarchy of heavens. However some charismatic traditions believe that the second heaven is the battlegrounds of the demonic forces and angels. But the Bible nowhere mentions there being any place for the soul other than heaven or hell.

He is the way said:

Because we know that families are forever and that women are equal to men. Both men and women have eternal divine natures.

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So I have a few questions:

1) A woman who has been sealed to multiple men have how many husbands will she have if she attains exaltation?

2) If families are forever, then how come one has to undergo a special ceremony to have a forever family? Isn't that not so much families are forever as only certain families under certain circumstances get to be forever?

3) Assuming the equality of men and women, it should be safe to say that Heavenly Mother is equal to Heavenly Father, yes? And is therefore worthy of the same equal glory, adoration, and honor as her husband, yes?

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

1) A woman who has been sealed to multiple men have how many husbands will she have if she attains exaltation?

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Women aren't sealed to multiple men. Only one such sealing is allowed.

2) If families are forever, then how come one has to undergo a special ceremony to have a forever family? Isn't that not so much families are forever as only certain families under certain circumstances get to be forever?

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I'll get back to you on this one when I've had more than three hours' sleep, as I'm a bit too fuzzy to explain it properly.

3) Assuming the equality of men and women, it should be safe to say that Heavenly Mother is equal to Heavenly Father, yes? And is therefore worthy of the same equal glory, adoration, and honor as her husband, yes?

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Think about how much smack Heavenly Father gets.

Would you want someone talking about your gal like that?

Ironhold said:

Think about how much smack Heavenly Father gets.

Would you want someone talking about your gal like that?

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God the Father is God in Mormonism, right? Can he not handle things that people say about Him or "His Gal"?

This explanation makes very little sense.

ViaCrucis said:

So I have a few questions:

1) A woman who has been sealed to multiple men have how many husbands will she have if she attains exaltation?

2) If families are forever, then how come one has to undergo a special ceremony to have a forever family? Isn't that not so much families are forever as only certain families under certain circumstances get to be forever?

3) Assuming the equality of men and women, it should be safe to say that Heavenly Mother is equal to Heavenly Father, yes? And is therefore worthy of the same equal glory, adoration, and honor as her husband, yes?

-CryptoLutheran

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1 Women are only married for eternity to one man. All of the problems, if there be problems, will eventually be worked out.

2. The sealing (binding) keys were first given to Peter:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:19)

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Ordinances such as binding and baptism for the dead were restored to the earth in these latter days so that this work can go forward. This work was foretold:

(Old Testament | Malachi 4:5 - 6)

5 ¶ Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

I believe that eventually all the families of the earth will be blessed. Abraham was given this promise:

(Old Testament | Genesis 28:14)

14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

3 Yes, and although we are separated from are heavenly family at this time, I believe that eventually we will be together again and enjoy being the family we were before we came to earth.

dzheremi said:

God the Father is God in Mormonism, right? Can he not handle things that people say about Him or "His Gal"?

This explanation makes very little sense.

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I don't believe that God the Father wants to put her or us in that situation. It is bad enough for people to take God's name in vain, but to take her name in vain would cause more anger to be on His children.

He is the way said:

1 Women are only married for eternity to one man. All of the problems, if there be problems, will eventually be worked out.

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The same holds true for men right? Men are only married for eternity to one woman?

-CryptoLutheran

Ironhold said:

Would you want someone talking about your gal like that?

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My gal wouldn't want someone talking about me like that either. I don't patronize women by regarding them as the little lady. We are equals, I have her back and she has mine. There is an equality, a team, of mutual respect, love, and dignity.

This argument doesn't really help here, it only presents a paternalistic and patronizing attitude of chauvinism against women--that would be the opposite of equality.

-CryptoLutheran

He is the way said:

I don't believe that God the Father wants to put her or us in that situation. It is bad enough for people to take God's name in vain, but to take her name in vain would cause more anger to be on His children.

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This still doesn't make sense. The point is that you're treating your God the Father figure like a hotheaded bruiser who cannot handle anyone speaking against "the little woman" (goddess) as an excuse to leave her completely in the shadows when she supposedly makes up half of this holy parental structure in your theology, because to not do so would supposedly make God the Father really, really angry. You say "It is bad enough for people to take God's name in vain", which is true, but we note that this doesn't stop you from presenting your God the Father figure as one to be worshiped and known about.

So why, if the heavenly mother is (a) God, is she not treated the same? Why does she have to stay unknown to her supposed children for her 'protection' when no such protection is afforded the heavenly Father figure, who definitely is (a) God? Presumably he can hold his own despite what anyone might say of him, but he would just fly off the holy handle at the idea of anyone saying what they already say about him about the heavenly mother?

It sounds like your God has control and anger management issues.

dzheremi said:

This still doesn't make sense. The point is that you're treating your God the Father figure like a hotheaded bruiser who cannot handle anyone speaking against "the little woman" (goddess)

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I... take it that chivalry is largely forgotten these days, then if people presume it to be hot-headedness?

Ironhold said:

I... take it that chivalry is largely forgotten these days, then if people presume it to be hot-headedness?

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And I take it that God, the omnipotent creator and ruler of everything, is not a medieval European knight.

ViaCrucis said:

The same holds true for men right? Men are only married for eternity to one woman?

-CryptoLutheran

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Some men have been married to more than one woman for eternity.

Ironhold said:

I... take it that chivalry is largely forgotten these days, then if people presume it to be hot-headedness?

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Chivalry isn't chauvinism.

-CryptoLutheran

He is the way said:

Some men have been married to more than one woman for eternity.

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So men can have more than one eternal wife, but women can't have more than one eternal husband.

Is this correct?

-CryptoLutheran

dzheremi said:

This still doesn't make sense. The point is that you're treating your God the Father figure like a hotheaded bruiser who cannot handle anyone speaking against "the little woman" (goddess) as an excuse to leave her completely in the shadows when she supposedly makes up half of this holy parental structure in your theology, because to not do so would supposedly make God the Father really, really angry. You say "It is bad enough for people to take God's name in vain", which is true, but we note that this doesn't stop you from presenting your God the Father figure as one to be worshiped and known about.

So why, if the heavenly mother is (a) God, is she not treated the same? Why does she have to stay unknown to her supposed children for her 'protection' when no such protection is afforded the heavenly Father figure, who definitely is (a) God? Presumably he can hold his own despite what anyone might say of him, but he would just fly off the holy handle at the idea of anyone saying what they already say about him about the heavenly mother?

It sounds like your God has control and anger management issues.

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God does get angry:

(Old Testament | Numbers 32:14)

14 And, behold, ye are risen up in your fathers' stead, an increase of sinful men, to augment yet the fierce anger of the LORD toward Israel.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 13:13)

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

(Old Testament | Zephaniah 2:1 - 3)

1 GATHER yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;
2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you.
3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger.

That is why we need to FEAR God and keep His commandments. What father allows their children treat their mother badly?

ViaCrucis said:

So men can have more than one eternal wife, but women can't have more than one eternal husband.

Is this correct?

-CryptoLutheran

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Yes.

He is the way said:

God does get angry

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I never said He didn't. You've missed the point, which was why Mormonism doesn't treat its god figures the same in this regard. Why does the heavenly mother figure need to be hidden away for fear that what you say already happens to god the father might happen to god the mother? Is god the mother not able to take it? Is god the father not able or willing to handle it?

What father allows their children treat their mother badly?

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What kind of father does not allow their children to know anything about their mother beyond the fact that she exists?

dzheremi said:

I never said He didn't. You've missed the point, which was why Mormonism doesn't treat its god figures the same in this regard. Why does the heavenly mother figure need to be hidden away for fear that what you say already happens to god the father might happen to god the mother? Is god the mother not able to take it? Is god the father not able or willing to handle it?



What kind of father does not allow their children to know anything about their mother beyond the fact that she exists?

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Why are you asking me and not God? Perhaps God is hiding. I am sure that God the Father has His reasons.

He is the way said:

Why are you asking me and not God?

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Because I believe the doctrine comes from you, not from God.

Perhaps God is hiding.

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'Spoken' like the prophet Elijah insulting the god of the pagans...except that in his case, he was making fun of the worshipers of Baal, not talking about God the Father. Hmm.

dzheremi said:

Because I believe the doctrine comes from you, not from God.



'Spoken' like the prophet Elijah insulting the god of the pagans...except that in his case, he was making fun of the worshipers of Baal, not talking about God the Father. Hmm.

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I believe the doctrine is from the Bible:

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:26 - 27)

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Man is in the image of the Father, Eve is in the image of her mother. The "us" and "our" referrers to the Father and the Mother.