Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Hi there,

So I had this idea that the abomination of desolation represented the dead bodies of the Israelites in Israel, at the time of the beheading of those who do not receive the mark of the Man of Sin. The abomination is that they are the elect and should not be dead; the desolation is that without defending the elect, Israel's claim to authority under God, is void. This is what the Devil wants.

So in effect, Matthew 24:15 means "when you see what the Devil wants, let him who sees the power of the Devil not be afraid of it, let him who overlooks the place of the Devil not provide anything for it (to work) and let him who works for the Devil, not fail to complete his work, question his work or undo his work (a workingly hard saying)" - the point being that as the Holy Spirit begins to work, we are to let holy be holy, righteous be righteous, unclean be unclean and filthy be filthy (Revelation 22:11).

The essence of this, is that seeing the abomination of desolation, we no longer put stock in hope that we or the faith will survive, but by the power of God. So when God promises that there will be life after the abomination of desolation, He is saying the Return of the Christ will distinguish Him separate from the abomination of desolation - which will begin to have faded.

Rest assured! The terror has an end!

The work that we do today, has a reward in Heaven!!
 

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hi there,

So I had this idea that the abomination of desolation represented the dead bodies of the Israelites in Israel, at the time of the beheading of those who do not receive the mark of the Man of Sin. The abomination is that they are the elect and should not be dead; the desolation is that without defending the elect, Israel's claim to authority under God, is void. This is what the Devil wants.

So in effect, Matthew 24:15 means "when you see what the Devil wants, let him who sees the power of the Devil not be afraid of it, let him who overlooks the place of the Devil not provide anything for it (to work) and let him who works for the Devil, not fail to complete his work, question his work or undo his work (a workingly hard saying)" - the point being that as the Holy Spirit begins to work, we are to let holy be holy, righteous be righteous, unclean be unclean and filthy be filthy (Revelation 22:11).

The essence of this, is that seeing the abomination of desolation, we no longer put stock in hope that we or the faith will survive, but by the power of God. So when God promises that there will be life after the abomination of desolation, He is saying the Return of the Christ will distinguish Him separate from the abomination of desolation - which will begin to have faded.

Rest assured! The terror has an end!

The work that we do today, has a reward in Heaven!!

The following verse, paralleling Matthew 24:15 in the parallel chapter of Luke 21, clarifies the identity of the abomination of desolation:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

It was the Roman armies, bearing pagan ensigns considered abominations by the Jews, advancing upon Jerusalem to wreak its desolation in 70 AD.
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hi there,

So I had this idea that the abomination of desolation represented the dead bodies of the Israelites in Israel, at the time of the beheading of those who do not receive the mark of the Man of Sin.

Where does the Bible Teach that the Man of Sin Paul spoke about (Who, according to Paul was already alive and being restrained at the time he wrote) makes anyone take a "mark"?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Willie T
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
The following verse, paralleling Matthew 24:15 in the parallel chapter of Luke 21, clarifies the identity of the abomination of desolation:
Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
It was the Roman armies, bearing pagan ensigns considered abominations by the Jews, advancing upon Jerusalem to wreak its desolation in 70 AD.
Indeed.
According to the Greek, I would go so far as to say Matt 24:15/Mark 13:14 harmonizes nicely with Reve 1:3


Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread


Matthew 24:15
Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared<4483> thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood<2476> in a place<5117>, holy<40> (the one-reading<ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be understanding<νοείτω 3539>)...
16 then those in the Judea let them be fleeing!<5343> into the mountains<3735>
Mark 13:14
`Whenever yet ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood where not it is binding<1163>, (the one-reading< ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be minding/understanding), then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Revelation 1:3
Happy/Blessed the one reading/ana-ginwskwn/ἀναγινώσκων <314> and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written,
that the time/season is nigh.


Whereas Luke 21:20 and Revelation
[I and many others view 1st century Jerusalem as that great City/Harlot in Revelation]

Luke 21:20

Whenever yet may be seeing Jerusalem surrounded<2124> by war-troops<4760>, then be knowing that come nigh<1448> desolating<2050> of Her

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833> without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations
and they shall be trampling<3961> the holy City forty two months

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Rev 18:19
“They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth!
For in one hour she is made desolate.’
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Where does the Bible Teach that the Man of Sin Paul spoke about (Who, according to Paul was already alive and being restrained at the time he wrote) makes anyone take a "mark"?

Its in Revelation 13, I think.

The point being, those who do this, bring death upon themselves.

The death put upon the faithful, being the abomination of desolation - the faithful leaving their bodies behind, in answer to the mark.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,685
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Its in Revelation 13, I think.

The point being, those who do this, bring death upon themselves.

The death put upon the faithful, being the abomination of desolation - the faithful leaving their bodies behind, in answer to the mark.
Why can't we just go to Daniel 12, which Jesus referred to Daniel, the prophet, speaking about the abomination of desolation? And the preview of what the abomination of desolation will be from Daniel 11:31 of a already fulfilled prophecy of a statue image placed in the temple by Antiochus?

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

_______________________________________________________________

Daneil 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,685
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The death put upon the faithful, being the abomination of desolation - the faithful leaving their bodies behind, in answer to the mark.
The desolation is not of the faithful's bodies.

It is desolation of the temple, from praise and worship of the One True God.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Berean Tim
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi there,

So I had this idea that the abomination of desolation represented the dead bodies of the Israelites in Israel, at the time of the beheading of those who do not receive the mark of the Man of Sin. The abomination is that they are the elect and should not be dead; the desolation is that without defending the elect, Israel's claim to authority under God, is void. This is what the Devil wants.

So in effect, Matthew 24:15 means "when you see what the Devil wants, let him who sees the power of the Devil not be afraid of it, let him who overlooks the place of the Devil not provide anything for it (to work) and let him who works for the Devil, not fail to complete his work, question his work or undo his work (a workingly hard saying)" - the point being that as the Holy Spirit begins to work, we are to let holy be holy, righteous be righteous, unclean be unclean and filthy be filthy (Revelation 22:11).

The essence of this, is that seeing the abomination of desolation, we no longer put stock in hope that we or the faith will survive, but by the power of God. So when God promises that there will be life after the abomination of desolation, He is saying the Return of the Christ will distinguish Him separate from the abomination of desolation - which will begin to have faded.

Rest assured! The terror has an end!

The work that we do today, has a reward in Heaven!!


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


Based on the verse below, the Jews of Jesus time would have understood the desecration of the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes, because they celebrated the re-dedication of the temple every year during the festival of Hanukkah. (Let the reader understand.)



Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

.....................................................................................................................

From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "

Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.

Antiochus Epiphanes also attacked the city of Jerusalem killing thousands of Jews, and also stopped the temple sacrifices.
The same thing would happen during 70 AD.

.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Its in Revelation 13, I think.

Nope.
Nothing about The Man of Sin in Revelation 13 - or anywhere in Revelation.

Any other place in scripture "you think" might support this assertion of yours?
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.

Antiochus Epiphanes also attacked the city of Jerusalem killing thousands of Jews, and also stopped the temple sacrifices.
The same thing would happen during 70 AD.
.
More Christians need to read Josephus in relation to the 70ad Jerusalem/Temple Discourse and Revelation.........
Please visit my 1st century "Jewish Wars" thread..

Matt 24:6..The Jewish Wars in 1st century...Up to 70ad and Masada


Matthew 24:6
Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing of battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.

Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Nope.
Nothing about The Man of Sin in Revelation 13 - or anywhere in Revelation.

Any other place in scripture "you think" might support this assertion of yours?

No, its in there: Revelation 13:16-17

Scripture said:

The emphasis being that the abomination of desolation falls between the mark and the return of the Lord.
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No, its in there: Revelation 13:16-17

Where does scripture teach you that the "he" of Revelation 13:16-17 is the same individual as Paul's Man of Sin from 2nd Thessalonians?
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Where does scripture teach you that the "he" of Revelation 13:16-17 is the same individual as Paul's Man of Sin from 2nd Thessalonians?

2nd Thessalonians talks about the Man of Sin being restrained and Revelation talks about how to identify the man of sin by his number - they are two sides of the same coin.

I suppose I could ask you to check with Holy Spirit, since I only have coherent references - not specific crosses between them.

It's almost as if this is a topic scripture would rather not deal with in depth, but rather be ready to just say "no".
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
2nd Thessalonians talks about the Man of Sin being restrained

Correct.
He was alive, A living breathing 1st century human man, being restrained from his takeover of the temple in the first century.

And The Thessalonians knew what was restraining him at that time.

and Revelation talks about how to identify the man of sin by his number - they are two sides of the same coin.

Incorrect.

Revelation speaks of the beast. There is no scriptural instruction that teaches you that the beast of Revelation and the man of sin of 2 Thess. are the same person.

If there was you’d be able to cite chapter and verse. But you can’t.

You are basing this opinion solely on the traditions of man and not on scripture. Hardly a foundation to build a theology upon.
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Incorrect.

Revelation speaks of the beast. There is no scriptural instruction that teaches you that the beast of Revelation and the man of sin of 2 Thess. are the same person.

If there was you’d be able to cite chapter and verse. But you can’t.

You are basing this opinion solely on the traditions of man and not on scripture. Hardly a foundation to build a theology upon.

Like I said, ask the Holy Spirit!

It's more important that we work together, than that we get scripture perfect.

Realistically, the argument is not over until you provide a verse that says they can't be related - if that is your standard of proof?

I mean essentially you are saying that one verse that says "the Man of Sin will be revealed" and another verse that says "this is how to tell who has been revealed" are different - when in fact the subject of both is the same??
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Like I said, ask the Holy Spirit!
I have. He’s informed me you are wrong.

Realistically, the argument is not over until you provide a verse that says they can't be related - if that is your standard of proof?

I mean essentially you are saying that one verse that says the Man of Sin will be revealed and another verse that says "this is how to tell who has been revealed" are different - when in fact the subject of both is the same??

Incorrect again.
The onus is on the claimant to prove the positive correlation.

Paul speaks of a person called the man of sin, John speaks of a person called the beast.

You believe there are the same person.

Scripture teaches no such thing.

I need not prove a negative.
I need not prove that which is not taught, is not taught.

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
I have. He’s informed me you are wrong.

What? What scripture did He quote you?

Incorrect again.
The onus is on the claimant to prove the positive correlation.

No, scripture is not "either or", it is all or nothing. Besides which I am not making an accusation, so I do not need to validate both my assumption and your pretense. If you have failed my assumption, then prove your pretense - or it is you that is accusing me?

I am happy to go without assumption, if you can demonstrate your pretense disqualifies it.

Paul speaks of a person called the man of sin, John speaks of a person called the beast.

You believe there are the same person.

Scripture teaches no such thing.

I need not prove a negative.
I need not prove that which is not taught, is not taught.

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.

I see the actions of marking small and great, to be the greatest of sins - how do you find it difficult to relate that to the title of "Man of Sin"? Is there a greater sin? Is "the number of a man" not a number that will be revealed of this Man?

Ask the Holy Spirit again, but this time ask for a verse that contradicts that the number of the Man of Sin is the same as the Man revealed in Revelation (one number or two)?
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What? What scripture did He quote you?



No, scripture is not "either or", it is all or nothing. Besides which I am not making an accusation, so I do not need to validate both my assumption and your pretense. If you have failed my assumption, then prove your pretense - or it is you that is accusing me?

I am happy to go without assumption, if you can demonstrate your pretense disqualifies it.



I see the actions of marking small and great, to be the greatest of sins - how do you find it difficult to relate that to the title of "Man of Sin"? Is there a greater sin? Is "the number of a man" not a number that will be revealed of this Man?

Ask the Holy Spirit again, but this time ask for a verse that contradicts that the number of the Man of Sin is the same as the Man revealed in Revelation (one number or two)?

Again, show me a scripture that says the beast of revelation in the man of sin of 2nd Thessalonians Are the same person.

You keep saying that revelation speaks of the man of sin… But revelation speaks of no such person. If it did you would be able to point me to chapter and verse... but again you can’t.

Sorry friend, We don’t just get to make up what we want to believe Scripture teaches....Scripture actually has to teach it, in order for it to be a scriptural teaching.
 
Upvote 0

Adamina

Praise Jesus
Supporter
Feb 29, 2020
124
43
U S A
✟16,550.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hi there, So I had this idea that the abomination of desolation represented the dead bodies of the Israelites in Israel, at the time of the beheading of those who do not receive the mark of the Man of Sin. The abomination is that they are the elect and should not be dead; the desolation is that without defending the elect, Israel's claim to authority under God, is void. This is what the Devil wants.

So in effect, Matthew 24:15 means "when you see what the Devil wants, let him who sees the power of the Devil not be afraid of it, let him who overlooks the place of the Devil not provide anything for it (to work) and let him who works for the Devil, not fail to complete his work, question his work or undo his work (a workingly hard saying)" - the point being that as the Holy Spirit begins to work, we are to let holy be holy, righteous be righteous, unclean be unclean and filthy be filthy (Revelation 22:11).
The following verse, paralleling Matthew 24:15 in the parallel chapter of Luke 21, clarifies the identity of the abomination of desolation:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

It was the Roman armies, bearing pagan ensigns considered abominations by the Jews, advancing upon Jerusalem to wreak its desolation in 70 AD.
I tend to agree.
It sppears Luke's Gospel also parallels a lof of verses in Revelation.

If one looks at the Greek, there is no article "the" preceding the phrase "holy place" which could be implying any place that is considered holy by the LORD, which would mainly be in Judea I would think. [I noticed that when I was reading a commentary on this verse, which is shown below]

Matthew 24:15

Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood in a holy place, (the one-reading let him be understanding)...
16 then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Ezekiel mentions the whole mountain top, which the Temple and Sanctuary were built upon, as being holy.

Eze 43:12
This is a law of the house: on the top of the mountain, all its border all round about is most holy; lo, this is a law of the house.
---------------------------
I haven't studied on this much, but this appears to be a very controversial topic among Christians along with the 1000yr period.
[I like "biblehub" a lot.]

Matthew 24:15 Commentaries: "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 15. - In this second strain of the prophecy contained in vers. 15-22, our Lord confines himself almost entirely to the fate of Jerusalem. Therefore. The illative particle carries us back to the signs given in the previous section (vers. 5-14). By saying when ye shall see, he implies that some of his hearers shall behold this mysterious sign, and have the opportunity of profiting by the knowledge thereof. The abomination of desolation (τὸ βδέλυγμα τῆς ἐρημώσεως). The term is from the Septuagint Version (with which Theodotion's agrees) of Daniel 12:11; in Daniel 9:27 we find βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων, where the Hebrew gives, Upon the wing [or, 'pinnacle'] of abominations shall come the desolater."
Also in Daniel 11:31 we have the simple βδέλυγμα. What is meant by the term in our text is a matter of unsettled dispute. The prophecy in Daniel 11:31 has been generally referred to the doings of Antiochus Epiphanes (see 1 Macc. 1:54), and the present is considered to relate to something analogous. "Abomination" in the Old Testament is generally connected with idolatry or sacrilege; "of desolation" is equivalent to "that causes desolation." Among the many explanation; of this passage which have been offered, two only seem worthy of consideration.

(1) The desolating abomination is referred to the Roman armies encamped around Jerusalem (Luke 21:20), of which the symbol was the legionaries' eagles, regarded with reverence by the soldiers. But in opposition to this view it may be said, if the holy place, without the article, signifies the Holy Land, then the presence of the Latin forces would be no new sign to the Jewish people, as they had been familiar with such a sight for many years. If the temple itself is meant, it is plain that it would be too late to fly from that doomed city when the Roman eagles were already in the hallowed courts.

(2) The alternative interpretation, which has seemed to many more probable, explains it of the sanguinary deeds of the Zealots, who, after the war had been carried on for some years, seized the temple, put a stop to the daily sacrifice, deluged the sacred courts with blood, and were guilty of most hideous crimes and excesses,
============================
This site is fairly good at showing the account of events concerning the Jewish revolt prior to 70ad.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

While Jerusalem was a prey to these ferocious and devouring factions, every part of Judea was scourged and laid waste by bands of robbers and murderers, who plundered the towns; and, in case of resistance, slew the inhabitants, not sparing either women or children. Simon, son of Gioras, the commander of one of these bands, at the head of forty thousand banditti, having with some difficulty entered Jerusalem, gave birth to a third faction, and the flame of civil discord blazed out again, with still more destructive fury. The three factions, rendered frantic by drunkenness, rage, and desperation, trampling on heaps of slain, fought against each other with brutal savageness and madness..Even such as brou't sacrifices to the temple were murdered. The dead bodies of priests and worshippers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts. John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example.

Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength. At this critical and alarming c onjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance. A ceaseless cry of combatants was heard day and night, and yet the lamentations of mourners were still more dreadful.
===============
OAMZKC0PDDVcb_296MO8PJUr6ZL_GZVH5q1F1_eTHWpvo-UWvWJJZ9tRfIHP4tF5bE20xHCfAOrOq1wGO1Eno_KjDpKKYnwgXdewzTTJuNRYAeLSaL_wgbJdIe4hnWxe
1200px-Siege_of_Jerusalem_%2870_CE%29-en.svg.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Berean Tim

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2017
577
207
67
Houston TX
✟145,630.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Again, show me a scripture that says the beast of revelation in the man of sin of 2nd Thessalonians Are the same person.

You keep saying that revelation speaks of the man of sin… But revelation speaks of no such person. If it did you would be able to point me to chapter and verse... but again you can’t.

Sorry friend, We don’t just get to make up what we want to believe Scripture teaches....Scripture actually has to teach it, in order for it to be a scriptural teaching.
I'm curious Who do you think The beast of Revelation 13 and the man of sin in 2nd Thess are
 
Upvote 0