Why was St Thomas not at the Dormition of the Theotokos?

AMM

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I was praying part of the Akathist in honor of the Dormition of St Mary and I noticed something in Kontakion 3. It reads:

By the power of the Most High was Thomas taken from India, since by the will of God he had not been brought to the most honorable Dormition of the Mother of God, and standing before Her life-bearing tomb, he stooped down to see and understood that She had ascended to Heaven in the body, and believing, he cried out: Alleluia!

And the Ekos:

The disciple, having thoughts within himself, since by Divine Providence he had not been brought to the funeral procession of the Mother of God with others, rejoiced in Her immortal Dormition, crying out to Her these things: (...)

Why wasn't St Thomas present? Is there an Orthodox interpretation/commentary on this, besides saying that it was "by the will of God" and "Divine Providence"?
 

AMM

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My only thought is that perhaps it was Christ giving Thomas another chance to believe without seeing -- "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" -- this time about her Dormition instead of about His Resurrection
 
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Not David

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My only thought is that perhaps it was Christ giving Thomas another chance to believe without seeing -- "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" -- this time about her Dormition instead of about His Resurrection
I am curious about "By the power of the Most High was Thomas taken from India", it makes it sound like he was transport back to their place.
 
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icxn

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Because when he finally made it they were forced to open her tomb for him to venerate only to find out that her body was missing. Thus witnessing her bodily assumption to heaven, which she also confirmed when she later appeared to all of the apostles.
 
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AMM

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I am curious about "By the power of the Most High was Thomas taken from India", it makes it sound like he was transport back to their place.
I think it's taught that all the apostles were transported to Jerusalem for the event (well, all except Thomas), from where they were doing their missionary work. The akathist also says in Kontakion 2: "Upon seeing the apostolic choir by an all-powerful command being presented upon clouds from the ends of the earth for Thy most honorable Dormition..." And I recall hearing that taught in more detail in other places but it's all pretty new to me
 
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AMM

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Because when he finally made it they were forced to open her tomb for him to venerate only to find out that her body was missing. Thus witnessing her bodily assumption to heaven, which she also confirmed when she later appeared to all of the apostles.
Oh interesting, I didn't pick up on that. So the apostles were there for her death, she died, they buried her, and then it is after that that she was translated to Heaven? Then Thomas comes, they open the tomb, and learn that she had been assumed.

Orthodoxy teaches that she died, right? I'm under the impression that Catholicism teaches that she was simply brought to heaven without dying
 
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All4Christ

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Oh interesting, I didn't pick up on that. So the apostles were there for her death, she died, they buried her, and then it is after that that she was translated to Heaven? Then Thomas comes, they open the tomb, and learn that she had been assumed.

Orthodoxy teaches that she died, right? I'm under the impression that Catholicism teaches that she was simply brought to heaven without dying
Yes, that’s why we celebrate the Dormition of the Theotokos, not the assumption of the Theotokos
 
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All4Christ

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Oh interesting, I didn't pick up on that. So the apostles were there for her death, she died, they buried her, and then it is after that that she was translated to Heaven? Then Thomas comes, they open the tomb, and learn that she had been assumed.

Orthodoxy teaches that she died, right? I'm under the impression that Catholicism teaches that she was simply brought to heaven without dying
And I think the RC view is that she was brought to Heaven, but they don’t specify if she did or did not die. The RC dogma is that the Virgin Mary "having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory". The focus for them is on the assumption, whereas the dormition is important theologically to us.
 
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AMM

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because she really died, and she died the death we all pray to have.
thank you Father. So it goes back to her being our example for each of us through all our life.

Slight tangent from the original topic but is Mary our mother? what about the mother of the church? Those are ideas I've heard in Catholicism and Lutheranism, but are they seen as true in Orthodoxy as well?
 
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ArmyMatt

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thank you Father. So it goes back to her being our example for each of us through all our life.

Slight tangent from the original topic but is Mary our mother? what about the mother of the church? Those are ideas I've heard in Catholicism and Lutheranism, but are they seen as true in Orthodoxy as well?

yes on both
 
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All4Christ

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Can you explain more why the dormition is more important than the assumption to us?
She truly needed to be saved by Christ as all human persons are saved from the trials, sufferings and death of this world. She truly died and was raised up into Heaven, showing what will happen to us as well. She participated in the eternal life promised to all who hear the word of God and keep it (Luke 11).

In giving birth, you preserved your virginity. In falling asleep you did not forsake the world, O Theotokos. You were translated to life, O Mother of Life, and by your prayers, you deliver our souls from death (Troparion).

Neither the tomb, nor death, could hold the Theotokos, who is constant in prayer and our firm hope in her intercessions. For being the Mother of Life, she was translated to life, by the One who dwelt in her virginal womb (Kontakion).

Father Thomas Hopko explained:

Finally it must be stressed that, in all of the feasts of the Virgin Mother of God in the Church, the Orthodox Christians celebrate facts of their own lives in Christ and the Holy Spirit. What happens to Mary happens to all who imitate her holy life of humility, obedience, and love. With her all people will be “blessed” to be “more honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim” if they follow her example. All will have Christ born in them by the Holy Spirit. All will become temples of the living God. All will share in the eternal life of His Kingdom who live the life that Mary lived.

In this sense everything that is praised and glorified in Mary is a sign of what is offered to all persons in the life of the Church. It is for this reason that Mary, with the divine child Jesus within her, is called in the Orthodox Tradition the Image of the Church. For the assembly of the saved is those in whom Christ dwells.

The Orthodox Faith - Volume II - Worship - The Church Year - Dormition of the Theotokos

She died and was raised from the dead. She physically died, but was saved from death and corruption, and raised to Life Eternal. This same gift is offered to all those who are in Christ - to all who hear the word of God and keep it.
 
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prodromos

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Tradition tells us that Thomas was being brought to the tomb and met with Mary in the air as she was being taken up, and she handed him the belt of camel hair which she wore around her waist. Part of this belt now resides at the monastery of Vatopedi on Mt Athos, and the list of miracles associated with her belt grows daily.
 
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She truly needed to be saved by Christ as all human persons are saved from the trials, sufferings and death of this world. She truly died and was raised up into Heaven, showing what will happen to us as well. She participated in the eternal life promised to all who hear the word of God and keep it (Luke 11).



Father Thomas Hopko explained:



She died and was raised from the dead. She physically died, but was saved from death and corruption, and raised to Life Eternal. This same gift is offered to all those who are in Christ - to all who hear the word of God and keep it.
thanks that's really helpful. I like that Hopko quote a lot

Tradition tells us that Thomas was being brought to the tomb and met with Mary in the air as she was being taken up, and she handed him the belt of camel hair which she wore around her waist. Part of this belt now resides at the monastery of Vatopedi on Mt Athos, and the list of miracles associated with her belt grows daily.
Oh now that's interesting

Being outside the empire Thomas got the news late of Mary's death.
Thomas arriving late and receiving evidence of the assumption is meant to parallel doubting Thomas requiring proof to see the Risen Christ.
weren't other apostles outside the empire? plus, didn't they receive the message by divine inspiration, not like a letter on horseback?
 
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icxn

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Oh interesting, I didn't pick up on that. So the apostles were there for her death, she died, they buried her, and then it is after that that she was translated to Heaven? Then Thomas comes, they open the tomb, and learn that she had been assumed.

Orthodoxy teaches that she died, right?
Yes to all of the above.
I'm under the impression that Catholicism teaches that she was simply brought to heaven without dying
It logically follows, if they want to be consistent with their doctrine of immaculate conception. Of course we reject both.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Sorry for my disbelief Father, but I don't see God teleporting people, not even on Scriptures.

He does in the OT, with Habakkuk going to minister to Daniel. plus, Christ does it all the time.
 
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