Why are you non-denominational?

GodLovesCats

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I do not see any reason to assume nondenominational Christians necessarily lean toward Charisdmatic or Baptist churches. The word means a Christian does not theologically fit in any denomination. I have some Baptist and Charismatic beliefs, but have read their members interpret the Bible literally and don't accept any English version that is younger than the original KJV. If these statements are true, I can't belong to a deonmination that otherwise aligns with what I believe.
 
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Albion

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I do not see any reason to assume nondenominational Christians necessarily lean toward Charisdmatic or Baptist churches. The word means a Christian does not theologically fit in any denomination.
That is the meaning of the term, that's right. However, it is true that most non-denominational congregations, while remaining unaffiliated, are nevertheless Baptist or Pentecostal by faith and, often, by worship style as well.
 
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GodLovesCats

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That is the meaning of the term, that's right. However, it is true that most non-denominational congregations, while remaining unaffiliated, are nevertheless Baptist or Pentecostal by faith and, often, by worship style as well.

Pentacostals have a weird worship style. Instead of just singing along to music, they also chant, yell, and dance. I love this and their band music, but not the foot washing and meditating, which they also think of as worshipping. To my knowledge Baptists worship like most other Christians: out of a hymn book.

The Association of Vineyard Churches, formerly Vineyard Christian Fellowship, calls itself Neo-Charismatic and Evangelical. I read about those terms and discovered they are not singular denominations. The AVC's beliefs are similar to Pentacostal but they do not emphasize speaking in tongues.
 
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Albion

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Pentacostals have a weird worship style. Instead of just singing along to music, they also chant, yell, and dance. I love this and their band music, but not the foot washing and meditating, which they also think of as worshipping. To my knowledge Baptists worship like most other Christians: out of a hymn book.
Well, that's correct as far as it goes. But they both are non-liturgical, un-ceremonial, Bible literalists, and so on. In addition, I said that most, not all, non-denominational congregations are either Baptist in belief or Pentecostal. That doesn't mean that they are like both of them at once or that the two are identical.
 
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Andrewn

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I would hope that you search the scriptures and confirm what is being preached from the pulpit. When you meet Jesus face to face he will not ask you what church doctrine you believed. He will ask you what you did with his message.
If we doubt the importance of true doctrine, here is a short article to remind us:
What Is Doctrine and Why Is It Important? - Tim Challies
After all, when we love someone, we desire to know more about him. Until the time comes when we see him face-to-face.

I don't mean to be rude but is there some church organization that you would trust your eternal soul to?
No, it is through the grace of the Holy Spirit and our faithful cooperation that our salvation is completed.
 
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Andrewn

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Pentacostals have a weird worship style. Instead of just singing along to music, they also chant, yell, and dance. I love this and their band music, but not the foot washing and meditating, which they also think of as worshipping.
It's a good idea to distinguish Pentecostals, Charismatics, and Neo-Charismatics, even though in my writing I frequently fail to do so.

I attended different congregations of the Assemblies of God (AoG) for years and they never displayed any of the behavior you listed. We used modern translations of the Bible. Rather than Pentecostals, AoG should be considered Charismatic Baptists. They worship like most other Christians.

From discussion in this thread, I've come to realize that most non-denominational churches are also Charismatic Baptists.
 
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GodLovesCats

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In a nutshell and very oversimplified, you can think of the Baptist, Charismatic, Pentecostal and consequently non-denominational systems as the end result of a more theologically liberal position - by this I don't mean morally liberal, but essentially, these systems have a low view of things such as Baptism and the Eucharist compared to other orthodox branches of Christianity, where the Sacraments occupy a greater importance doctrinally.

Whoa, you seem to be saying Baptists (who get their name from the importance of believer baptism) and Pentacostals don't care enough about one of God's commanded rites. They don't think baptism is any less important than it is for those who have been saved. It is all about timing: infant baptisms are useless and meaningless because they have no effect on a baby's chances of being saved, so their policy is to wait for people to make the conscious decision themselves to follow God and receive the Holy Spirit.
 
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Daniel9v9

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Whoa, you seem to be saying Baptists (who get their name from the importance of believer baptism) and Pentacostals don't care enough about one of God's commanded rites. They don't think baptism is any less important than it is for those who have been saved. It is all about timing: infant baptisms are useless and meaningless because they have no effect on a baby's chances of being saved, so their policy is to wait for people to make the conscious decision themselves to follow God and receive the Holy Spirit.

I don't want to get into a debate on infant baptism because there's so much that goes into, and I'd like to stay on topic. Basically, in the Arminian Baptist or Pentecostal system, of course infant baptism doesn't make sense. The whole system operates around that thought. Other systems that are more theologically conservative strongly disagree. The sum of it is: is baptism something we do for God? Or is it something God does for us? At least Lutherans will say that baptism is something God does for us, therefore we should not hinder anyone God's grace. So hopefully you can get a sense of the difference.

I'm not saying that baptism is unimportant in the Baptist or Pentecostal system, for I know it is. I was raised Pentecostal. But compared to orthodox branches, they are less important - both theologically and practically, and I can understand if that sounds strange. Let me demonstrate:

Baptists and Pentecostals generally view (water) Baptism as a symbol of new life in Christ; an outward declaration of faith; an act of obedience to Christ. Orthodox bodies believe that it doesn't only symbolise, but that it truly is God's means of grace. Therefore they will say baptism is (ordinarily but not absolutely) necessary for salvation. That's why orthodox branches will say that if we're baptised, there is no need for re-baptism if we were to fall out of faith and come back. For once we're baptised into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, it stands eternally on account of God's own promise through baptism. This is apprehended through faith.

Baptists and Pentecostals view the Eucharist more or less as a symbol, and it doesn't confer any actual grace; it's memorialism; eating bread and drinking some wine, reflecting on Chris's life, death and resurrection. Orthodox bodies believe that it's not only a symbol and occasion for reflection, but that it truly is God's means of grace. It's truly the body and blood of Christ given for us; a gift from God for our comfort, apprehended through faith in the person and works of Jesus Christ.

Bodies after the Zwinglian system view Baptism and the Eucharist as symbols, therefore not very central in their theological thought. A great example of this is some Baptists' insistence on full immersion, where the outward practice is more rigorously defended than the actual essence of what baptism is. Orthodox bodies view Baptism and the Eucharist as true means of grace, whereby the Holy Spirit operates and confers faith. They are not mere symbols, but synonymous with the Gospel; God's grace for us through Jesus Christ.

Now, I can appreciate that much of what I said here may seem confusing (or not!), but rather than debating me, I would encourage you to read about the Reformation and what they confessed. It's a real gold mine of theological thought that has shaped the Church as we see it in our day. We can get a better sense of what is taught in the Roman Catholic (and to an extent Eastern Orthodox), Lutheran, Anglican and Reformed and their consequent bodies such as Baptist and Pentecostal.
 
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Daniel9v9

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I thought nondenominational meant they are not affiliated with the custom beliefs of mainstream denominations of Christianity. Hence they would likely vary in beliefs from one church to another even amongst individuals within the church. Perhaps your speaking of a majority of nondenominational churches?

Well, non-denominational in an orginasational sense, meaning independent, is true of these bodies. However, it's really impossible to be theologically non-denominational, if taken to mean neutral.

For example, if we ask non-denominational pastors or worship leaders if they believe babies should be baptised, I think they would - with overwhelming consensus - say no. The reason for this is due to their Baptist and Pentecostal roots. However, given that these bodies are independent and often not accountable to any written confession of faith or larger Church body, it's only natural that they vary in theological thought. But it's all in the spectrum of Baptist, Charismatic and Pentecostal thought.

To put this more forcefully: It would be quite easy for a Pentecostal pastor to become a pastor in a non-denominational church. However, I don't think a conservative High-Church Anglican bishop would be equally welcome. Or to flip it on its head: A non-denominational pastor may transition relatively easy to become a Pentecostal pastor. But he'd find it much more challenging becoming a Lutheran pastor, for example.
 
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Stone-n-Steel

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If we doubt the importance of true doctrine, here is a short article to remind us:
What Is Doctrine and Why Is It Important? - Tim Challies
After all, when we love someone, we desire to know more about him. Until the time comes when we see him face-to-face.


No, it is through the grace of the Holy Spirit and our faithful cooperation that our salvation is completed.

In your original post you favored denominations as the keeper of true doctrine and said you don't understand churches that choose to follow scripture and not a denomination. I'm confused as to which you choose to follow. Your identified Anglican belief is in opposition to say a Baptist, yet you state the importance of true doctrine.

Denomination divide is the work of the enemy and not the intention of God.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Well, non-denominational in an orginasational sense, meaning independent, is true of these bodies. However, it's really impossible to be theologically non-denominational, if taken to mean neutral.

For example, if we ask non-denominational pastors or worship leaders if they believe babies should be baptised, I think they would - with overwhelming consensus - say no. The reason for this is due to their Baptist and Pentecostal roots. However, given that these bodies are independent and often not accountable to any written confession of faith or larger Church body, it's only natural that they vary in theological thought. But it's all in the spectrum of Baptist, Charismatic and Pentecostal thought.

To put this more forcefully: It would be quite easy for a Pentecostal pastor to become a pastor in a non-denominational church. However, I don't think a conservative High-Church Anglican bishop would be equally welcome. Or to flip it on its head: A non-denominational pastor may transition relatively easy to become a Pentecostal pastor. But he'd find it much more challenging becoming a Lutheran pastor, for example.

I can’t speak for others but my beliefs are based on my studies of the scriptures, early church writings, and Orthodox teachings. I was driven by Matthew 16:18 to find Jesus’ apostolic Church of God that I believe must always exist. The Orthodox teachings I prefer to remain neutral on mostly deal with Mary. Personally I don’t feel it is important to understand if she remained a virgin after Jesus’ birth or if she never sinned. I don’t see conclusive evidence in the scriptures to support one way or the other on these debates so I choose not to believe either way. I just leave it as something I don’t know and don’t need to know.
 
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Andrewn

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I'm confused as to which you choose to follow. Your identified Anglican belief is in opposition to say a Baptist, yet you state the importance of true doctrine.
The difference between Anglicans and Nondenominationals is doctrine. If you scroll above to Daniel's messages #10 & #28, you would get a very good idea about this difference.

And, no, denominations are not keepers of true doctrine, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them with competing beliefs. I think denominations are more of a brand, it's like buying a certain brand.

Perhaps nondenominational churches are like generic, no name products, usually great. I may prefer brand names but if the only church I have access to is nondenominational, I will certainly attend there and praise God.
 
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Stone-n-Steel

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So it is wrong that not all churches operate the same way (some are autonomous and others cooperate)?
Sorry for the slow reply. I am referring more to conflicting doctrine not operationally.
 
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GodLovesCats

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I can’t speak for others but my beliefs are based on my studies of the scriptures, early church writings, and Orthodox teachings. I was driven by Matthew 16:18 to find Jesus’ apostolic Church of God that I believe must always exist. The Orthodox teachings I prefer to remain neutral on mostly deal with Mary. Personally I don’t feel it is important to understand if she remained a virgin after Jesus’ birth or if she never sinned. I don’t see conclusive evidence in the scriptures to support one way or the other on these debates so I choose not to believe either way. I just leave it as something I don’t know and don’t need to know.

If the Bible says anything about Mary not being a sinner, it is important to know she never sinned. I don't know if it does.
 
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BNR32FAN

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If the Bible says anything about Mary not being a sinner, it is important to know she never sinned. I don't know if it does.

No it doesn’t specifically say although Mary herself did recognize her need for a Savior.

“And Mary said: "My soul exalts the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. "For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave; For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed. "For the Mighty One has done great things for me; And holy is His name. " AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM. "He has done mighty deeds with His arm; He has scattered those who were proud in the thoughts of their heart. "He has brought down rulers from their thrones, And has exalted those who were humble. " HE HAS FILLED THE HUNGRY WITH GOOD THINGS; And sent away the rich empty-handed. "He has given help to Israel His servant, In remembrance of His mercy, As He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and his descendants forever."”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:46-55‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
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Stone-n-Steel

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If the Bible says anything about Mary not being a sinner, it is important to know she never sinned. I don't know if it does.

Hello, I may be missing some thing here but doesn't Romans 3 clearly states that everyone has sinned (vs. 3:23)
 
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Stone-n-Steel

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Stone, if "everyone" has sinned, Jesus is also a sinner. We know, therefore, that it is possible Mary wasn't a sinner prior to His birth.
Thanks for the reply. I like your cat. I have several my self and love each one of them.
 
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A_Thinker

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Pentacostals have a weird worship style. Instead of just singing along to music, they also chant, yell, and dance. I love this and their band music, but not the foot washing and meditating, which they also think of as worshipping. To my knowledge Baptists worship like most other Christians: out of a hymn book.
For better or worse, Baptists are the original non-conformists.

Typically, Baptist churches have differences in worship styles, while adhering to a basic Bible-based set of doctrine.

So there are Baptists who dance, and Baptists who don't dance. There are Baptists that sing out of a hymn-book, and others that don't. I still worship in the church I grew up in as a child. 50 years ago, we sang hymns from a hymn-book. Now, we rarely pick up a hymn-book.

Worship styles are changing, as are attitudes concerning female leadership. Baptists don;t have any type of mandated oversight, though that it probably both a help in some cases ... and a hindrance in others.

The associated American Baptist Churches are, typically, the most non-traditional.
 
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