Only 10% in the US do not have medical insurance

comana said:

Why aren’t we hearing about all these tragic scenarios of rationing, long waitlists, and elderly dying without adequate care from all of our population enrolled in Medicare?

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Obviously you have never dealt with the VA.

DZoolander said:

How is that inconsistent?

In the ACA they tried to keep private health insurance plans in place in an effort to create a plan that could garner some right wing support - not realizing what a fool’s errand that was.

As a consequence - they needed to realize higher prices were going to stay and dole out subsidies. And given how the prices went - I think they set the subsidy levels too low.

That error doesn’t make me go “well god darn it - ain’t going to have anything to do with the government again”. Especially when I see the dysfunction of the private insurance system relative to the best run plans we have - Medicare and Medicaid.

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So you want to be completely and utterly dependent on the federal government to provide for your healthcare? And what if another Donald Trump gets elected? Do you want someone like him in control of your health?

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Obviously you have never dealt with the VA.

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Medicare is not the VA. And everyone who uses the VA in my area is quite happy with the service they get.

DZoolander said:

The last time the “socialized medicine” debate came up and the whole “Canadians are coming here for procedures!” Stuff was lobbed our there - I looked into what reports I could find that actually examined those claims.

For the most part - yes - that does happen. But MOSTLY it’s for non major relatively inexpensive elective procedures and/or tests.

The number of MAJOR types of procedures were extremely few - as in - could count a years worth on your hands type of infrequent. And there’s an obvious reason why. How many people can afford to pay American full freight cost of procedures without insurance coverage? And that’s what they’d be doing.

For example my father in law’s open heart surgery. $450,000 bill. Without insurance sure you could probably negotiate a good percent off - but how many people are laying around with an extra $250,000 to spend?

So there are grains of truth to it - but it’s exaggerated for political purposes.

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BTW...the last time the was a big "socialized medicine" debate, progressives kept turning to Venezuela as the shining example of a socialist utopia to be emulated. Ops!

comana said:

Medicare is not the VA. And everyone who uses the VA in my area is quite happy with the service they get.

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Again, it is obvious that you have never had to deal with the VA. You show me someone who says they are "quite happy" with the VA and I will show you someone who is full of bull. You are correct that Medicare is not the VA. But the VA is government controlled health care and it is terrible. Just do a quick google search about the conditions in VA hospitals. Of course the VA has gotten much better since Trump was elected. Now it seems that the satisfaction rates are comparable with private hospitals....since Trump allowed vets to get vouchers that can be used at other hospitals and forced the VA to compete with the private sector.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Again, it is obvious that you have never had to deal with the VA. You are correct that Medicare is not the VA. But the VA is government controlled health care and it is terrible. Just do a quick google search about the conditions in VA hospitals. Of course the VA has gotten much better since Trump was elected.

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Well since no one is suggesting VA for all you can leave the VA out of the discussion. The VA was also just fine in my area before Trump. Some VA hospitals have been managed horribly but hardly the majority.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Perhaps in a fantasy land ...

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Seems to work well here for the last 60+ years

timothyu said:

Seems to work well here for the last 60+ years

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Actually, it is not. So don't kid yourself.

Why Canada’s ‘best’ health-care system just got ranked last — again

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

I think the first step is addressing the reasons why healthcare is so expensive in the first place. Otherwise, insurance is only going to increase as a result of the increased cost of health services. You see, rising health insurance premiums are just a symptom of the bigger problem, the rising cost of healthcare services and prescriptions. Tackle the problem of making healthcare more affordable and insurance rates will go down. Having medicare for all will only drive up the cost of services and result in the rationing of health care.

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I already know that healthcare costs are predominantly pulled out of their derrieres. They charge what they want.

That's why insurance companies can pay them half of what they charge and they don't go out of business. If a business that based its prices on its actual costs of doing business in a competive marketplace only got half of what it charged, it would go out of business.

There are some costs, particularly for doctors, that are a result of the insurance morass. My doctor accepts 70 insurance plans. Whoever manages that for him would be unnecessary under a single payer program. That would be $50,000+ he'd save annually.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Obviously you have never dealt with the VA.

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Medicare works well. Tricare works well. Active duty military care works well.

The VA has problems because it's a vulnerable political football. Congress insists on treating the VA as though its case load isn't varied by state. A veteran in Maine can stroll into a clinic at any time. A veteran in Florida will wait for months. That's because there are a heck of a lot more veterans in Florida than in Maine, but Congress funds them equally.

RDKirk said:

Medicare works well. Tricare works well. Active duty military care works well.

The VA has problems because it's a vulnerable political football. Congress insists on treating the VA as though its case load isn't varied by state. A veteran in Maine can stroll into a clinic at any time. A veteran in Florida will wait for months. That's because there are a heck of a lot more veterans in Florida than in Maine, but Congress funds them equally.

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And people want to turn our entire healthcare system into a potential "political football" too? No thank you.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Like repealing the failed Affordable Care Act that drove insurance premiums up by an average of 147% in the last 10 years and replace it with something that actually works. Obamacare has been directly responsible for everyone's insurance premiums increasing by as much as 99% since 2013. Obamacare is such a failure that even if the Republicans just repealed it altogether it would be better than what is happening now.
U.S. House Passes Republican Health Bill, a Step toward Obamacare Repeal

4 Myths about the Republican Health Reform Bill (AHCA), or American Health Care Act - eHealth Insurance Resource Center

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And a Republican controlled House and Senate and White House couldn’t it forth anything but that? What was that Republican plan and where did it go?

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

And people want to turn our entire healthcare system into a potential "political football" too? No thank you.

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Remember, the President found it “complicated”.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

So you want to be completely and utterly dependent on the federal government to provide for your healthcare? And what if another Donald Trump gets elected? Do you want someone like him in control of your health?

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As opposed to Blue Cross/Aetna being in charge of my healthcare, along with Donald Trump?

I'll take my chances with Medicare.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Actually, it is not. So don't kid yourself.

Why Canada’s ‘best’ health-care system just got ranked last — again

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Yes I can understand why a Neo-Con propaganda piece would insinuate such a catastrophe. They have been crying about losing privatization in medicine here for 60 years. We don't feel sorry for the free enterprise parasites here.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

And people want to turn our entire healthcare system into a potential "political football" too? No thank you.

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Well, Republicans do.

Others just want to establish a system that works for everyone.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Again, it is obvious that you have never had to deal with the VA. You show me someone who says they are "quite happy" with the VA and I will show you someone who is full of bull. You are correct that Medicare is not the VA. But the VA is government controlled health care and it is terrible. Just do a quick google search about the conditions in VA hospitals. Of course the VA has gotten much better since Trump was elected. Now it seems that the satisfaction rates are comparable with private hospitals....since Trump allowed vets to get vouchers that can be used at other hospitals and forced the VA to compete with the private sector.

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The VA is an interesting animal - because it is subject to being used as a political pawn far more than medicare is.

Unfortunately, there's a large group of chicken-hawk types in this country who think that yelling about Colin Kaepernick makes up for the crappy things they do to vets behind the scenes to cut their benefits/etc. Ya know, so long as you give the superficial appearance of "supporting the troops", the reality of what you're doing to them really doesn't matter. I suppose it doesn't matter if you're screwing the vets - so long as you're standing for the flag while doing it.

So since there's this huge portion of our legislators who have a vested interest in trying to point to a badly run government healthcare program in order to make their "government can't run healthcare" arguments - the VA gets to be the whipping boy to make that case. Take a look at who suggests increasing funding. Take a look at who objects.

They'd do it to Medicare, too. But the seniors vote and they won't have any of that nonsense about messing with their good socialized medicine. So the vets get to be the ones who do without to make a point.

Tr

RDKirk said:

Haven't the Republicans been talking about that for the last couple of years? Wasn't that Trump's campaign promise?

What is your suggestion? For that matter, what has been their suggestion for fixing it? What's the grand plan that would get everyone covered cheaper than Obamacare?

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Trump is letting people get cheap plans that would be like bandaids for a hemmorhage. That won't solve the problem when so much us uncovered.

DZoolander said:

As opposed to Blue Cross/Aetna being in charge of my healthcare, along with Donald Trump?

I'll take my chances with Medicare.

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Have you every had private health insurance before? Because last I checked, you decide what healthcare you want covered and by which company. You get what you pay for. In a world of socialized medicine, you have unelected bureaucrats acting as "death panels" deciding what things the government will pay for and who gets priority.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Have you every had private health insurance before? Because last I checked, you decide what healthcare you want covered and by which company. You get what you pay for. In a world of socialized medicine, you have unelected bureaucrats acting as "death panels" deciding what things the government will pay for and who gets priority.

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I've had to manage my own health care which has always been private and my parents' health care which was Medicare for the last decade+ of their lives.

Have you ever had private health insurance before? Because last I checked, you DON'T decide what healthcare you want covered and by which company. No, you get what your employer offers you. That might be a choice between 2 or 3 companies, all offering virtually the same benefits for the same costs, or it might not. It might be one plan from one company which is terrible (I've had that before).

No, you don't get what you pay for. You pay more and get less than people with Medicare get. You also get the hassle of having to argue with the insurance company via letters, emails and phone calls to cover what they're supposed to cover.

As for "death panels", the private health care companies thrive on having them. They automatically deny a certain amount of claims for no reason in the hopes that the customer won't fight it and they can pocket the money that they should have paid. Because they are for-profit. Some fatcat exec gets a bonus every time someone is ripped off (or gets sicker or dies) by the insurance company. There is financial motivation to rip off the sick and dying and they do it. There are your death panels.

I have never had those problems with Medicare. Not only that, but on many bills I could see the Medicare cost vs. the private health insurer's cost and Medicare had a much cheaper cost. My mother's dialysis bill always had the $100k price tag on it and then right next to it the $30k price tag for Medicare. And Medicare covered it all, didn't even need the supplemental for that. Never an argument with Medicare, they never denied a claim, ever. The hospital and doctors preferred working with Medicare because they didn't need extra staff being paid to do nothing but fight with them like they needed for the private insurers.

It's fine if you want to be against Medicare for all but you don't provide any good reasons and in fact your reasons are mythical. I don't know if you're just making it up based on what you think is reality or if you're being fed this misinformation but either way what you say is entirely wrong and many in here have attested to that.