Predestination

Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

  • Yes

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  • No

    Votes: 16 44.4%

  • Total voters
    36

Jonaitis

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Perfect foreknowledge is not the same as predestination nor is it, God foreordained to happen. Lots of human future events are predestined and foreordained to happen, since humans are given just the little free will ability needed to fulfill their earthly objective.

Just to let everyone understand here, whenever Scripture uses the word 'foreknowledge' or 'foreknew' it always refers to an individual, not their actions. When God said that he foreknew us, it means that he has known us intimately before we were born. In one of the epistles of John, the apostle says it in another way, "We love because he first loved us" (1 John 4:19). This is what 'foreknowledge' means, a personal knowledge of his people beforehand.

I think people are equating 'foreknowledge' with 'foresight.' These are not the same thing.

Where in scripture do you find: only specific individuals can be predestined and we cannot have general events predestined without specific times and individuals?

I didn't understand your question, could you rephrase it?
 
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JM

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Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48

Yes, God predestines some to salvation and reprobates the rest so they will end up in hell forever and ever.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE="Jonaitis, post: 74183757, member: 416033"]It doesn't really matter what people think the word means, it already has a concrete definition - to determine beforehand the end of something. The biblical term is the same thing.

Notice the order in this verse:

"And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." - Romans 8:30

It doesn't say to those who believed he then predestined. It doesn't say to those who are justified he then predestined. It says that those whom he predestined, he called them to faith in Christ. To those who were called to faith were justified in Christ. To those who were justified will be glorified with Christ.[/QUOTE
========================================

Notice it doesn't matter what the order in this verse or post is.
Yahuweh is perfectly Righteous and Just, without fault, without any sin.

When He Says "Choose", He means "Choose", as in Choose TODAY who you are going to serve....
NOT "Choose" what I have already chosen for you, or already chosen you for....

He never abrogates a man's free will, unless , until, and when He Says He does, and always with perfect righteousness and perfect justice, with no sin.

He predestined someone before the world was created for something ?
Good. His Right to do so.
Already though, HE KNEW, what every man throughout all time would think in their heart and their minds, as well as what they would do.

So His predestination of them was with full and perfect knowledge of the choices of their hearts and minds, knowing all their deeds and actions and motives.

If anyone turns to Jesus, comes to Jesus, to be healed, he is healed. (saved)
 
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Kate30

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IF God chooses his elect on the basis of what he sees in them, it isn't pre-destination, but rather a choosing based on something afterwards.
Albion your missing the point the God did choose his elect before the foundation of the world. Or is God only allowed to like and to choose afterwards you think? And yes that would not be predestination if you see it that way. Which would be contrary to what scripture says.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48
......and some to everlasting death?
 
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Kate30

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My God is the epitome of mercy and compassion (Godly type Love/charity), but not everyone is willing to humbly accept pure charity as charity and God is not going to force people to accept charity since that would make God out to be holding the shotgun at a shotgun wedding. God would know when a person will never accept His mercy (Love) and thus not choose to extend to that person further His mercy and compassion, by God's choice.
Lets look Ro. 9:
Upon leaving the shop with the Potter’s proud mark on the jar (the birth of a baby) , they are great for what they were made to do: common or special use, but after leaving the shop things can happen pleasing the Potter or embarrassing the Potter to the point He does not want His mark on the pot. So, what could happen to the pot (special or common) that would cause the Potter not to want His mark on the pot?

You have to keep in mind the context of who is writing and how Paul uses the analogy other places:

Paul uses these same Greek words: τιμὴν (honorable or special purpose) and ἀτιμίαν (dishonorable or common use) in 2 Tim. 2:20 conveying the same idea of two types of vessels in a rich person’s house, but that would mean the Paul did not use ἀτιμίαν to mean “dishonorable”, since there would not be any dishonorable vessel in a rich man’s house, so Paul’s meaning is a common used vessel.

To understand better, we have to look at:

2 Tim. 2: 20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use. 21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

Paul said the common (ἀτιμίαν) vessels could themselves “cleanse themselves” (their free will action) and thus become articles of honor special, holy and useful. If the vessel itself can clean up, than it is also possible the vessel can become cracked (damaged) to the point of being useless.
Bling pots and pans don’t clean themselves though many men may think they do : ) It is God that does purify. He is the potter and you are the clay. So it doesn’t really matter from what manner the vessel be. Be it of wood, clay silver or gold. The Spirit of God shall dwell where it pleases. It is he that does purify. Thank you for the exposition from the Greek.
 
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His student

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Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?
God predestines all that happens.

That includes the events where some people respond positively to the gospel out of their own will and some do not respond the gospel positively out of their own will.

If you are asking if God forces some to respond while others are forced to not respond - then, NO - God does not predestine some to salvation and others to Hell.

Albeit He does open the eyes of some and leaves others in their darkness - either for His own reasons (such as with Saul/Paul) or as a response to their thoughts or actions (such as with Cornelius).
 
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Rawtheran

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Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48
I think that there is a difference between the sovereignty of God and what we call "Predestination." If God had predestined those who would be saved and those who would go to Hell then that means God would also have predestined the fall of mankind which would mean that he not Satan is the true author of evil. If God is the author of evil then that means he cannot be an all loving God. That would mean God created an amoral word.

Scripture is quite clear though in many instances that Jesus died for all of mankind and that while salvation is for all God in his omniscience knows who will and who will not accept the gift of salvation. God in the beginning allowed this creation to have free will because he wanted his people to choose to love him willingly just as he chose to love us. The only way love can exist is in a world that allows the freedom of choice and to experience the world as it is and as it can be. This is the only kind of world where evil can truly be held accountable and where people can know the difference between right and wrong. This means God created a moral world and this is the world that we live in today.

God is not the sadistic monster that Calvinism and the Augustinian school of thought portray him to be. God loves all and extends salvation to all who will listen and accept.
 
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Rawtheran

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UNLESS..... it's not.

Is there anywhere in Yahuweh's Word, ever, that indicates the elected ones, the remnant, can influence Yahuweh ? That they can do something to receive a blessing, or to receive a curse even ?

Like: whoever (anyone) trusts in the flesh, I (Yahuweh) Myself curse them. (even the elect ? cursed until they repent , if they trust in man/armies/ kings/ pastors/ etc anything in the flesh )
Yes, Abraham and Moses both influenced Adonai Elohim. God was going to destroy both the Israelites and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah outright but because of the intercession of Moses and Abraham the Israelites were spared and God promised he would spare the city if he found 10 righteous people. While God did not find 10 righteous people he did save Lot and his entire family. Isaiah 1:18 also makes clear that we can reason or plan things with God. Now I definitely think that there are limits to the free will we have and God will always have the final say so in things but he didn't create us to be robots. He created all of us to be unique individuals and to interact with him and each other in different ways.
 
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Rawtheran

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God predestines all that happens.

That includes the events where some people respond positively to the gospel out of their own will and some do not respond the gospel positively out of their own will.

If you are asking if God forces some to respond while others are forced to not respond - then, NO - God does not predestine some to salvation and others to Hell.

Albeit He does open the eyes of some and leaves others in their darkness - either for His own reasons (such as with Saul/Paul) or as a response to their thoughts or actions (such as with Cornelius).
God predestines all that happens? So was it "the will of God" that 29 people were killed in the mass shootings in Dayton, OH and El Paso Texas? If so then said God is a sick and demented old man who loves to laugh at a sick joke.
 
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Romans 8

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Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48

Yes. Previously I believed that the Prophets, Apostles, many pastors and clergy were predestined to be saved. But I'm reading some sources that claim EVERY Christian who is called (and believes) was predestined to be saved. And further, that all who are not called will not be saved. Isn't this Calvinism?
 
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Silverback

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God predestined to save all those who accept His charity from the beginning of time.

These are the “many” appointed to eternal life.

God did know from the beginning of time all the individuals who accepted His charity in human future.

Question

Is it your opinion that God "looked down the tunnel of time" and predestined those because he saw they would believe?

Or

That before the foundation of the world God chose those he would bring to faith in his son, and that this choice was unconditional on the part of the one being saved (nothing special, or, different about them) and that it was not based on God's foreknowledge?
 
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Silverback

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Hi joaitis,

Yes!!!! God predestined that all those who would believe in the testimony and sacrifice of His Son, would gain eternal life. He predestined that before the foundations of the earth were set in place. Before God said, "Let there be light!", He had already established and predestined that He would send His Son to pay the penalty of sin for all those who would believe His Son and establish His truth as their truth.

God blessed,
In Christ, ted
THE

They believe because they were predestined to believe, not predestined because the believed.
 
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Romans 8

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Question

Is it your opinion that God "looked down the tunnel of time" and predestined those because he saw they would believe?

Or

That before the foundation of the world God chose those he would bring to faith in his son, and that this choice was unconditional on the part of the one being saved (nothing special, or, different about them) and that it was not based on God's foreknowledge?

Also...why would Jesus tell us to spread the Gospel if those people receiving it are going to be saved are already predestined to be saved anyway?
 
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Silverback

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Also...why would Jesus tell us to spread the Gospel if those people receiving it are going to be saved are already predestined to be saved anyway?

They believe because they were predestined to believe, not predestined because they believe.
 
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Romans 8

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They believe because they were predestined to believe, not predestined because they believe.

That doesn't make sense. Predestination would infer that they would believe before the world was created so the second part of your statement is illogical.
 
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aiki

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Do you believe that God predestined some individuals to salvation?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48

Yes, but not in the way a Calvinist understands predestination.

Google "Corporate view of election."

www.soteriology101.com
 
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Jonaitis

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......and some to everlasting death?

Yes. I wanted to add that in there but some here would be offended who believe one and not the other. Double predestination is the only consistent view, it is just greatly misunderstood.
 
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Jonaitis

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God predestines all that happens.

That includes the events where some people respond positively to the gospel out of their own will and some do not respond the gospel positively out of their own will.

If you are asking if God forces some to respond while others are forced to not respond - then, NO - God does not predestine some to salvation and others to Hell.

Albeit He does open the eyes of some and leaves others in their darkness - either for His own reasons (such as with Saul/Paul) or as a response to their thoughts or actions (such as with Cornelius).

Do you believe that God carries out in time what he predestined? I agree that God forces no one to do anything.
 
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