Everyone should be watching developments in Israel

The Righterzpen

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Interesting. I'm guessing there are symbolic meanings to all of these components that were required. For instance, I just heard yesterday that the plant hyssop is mentioned all throughout the Bible. It was used in the cleansings of lepers (in order for them to participate in temple worship); David mentioned the plant in his Psalm (Psalm 51:7); and, maybe most importantly, it was the plant used as the paintbrush in the Passover in Exodus 12:22 - which points to Jesus on the cross.

Quoting Lysa Terkeurst:
If we turn over to John 19, we will see hyssop is one of the last things Jesus interacted with on this earth.

As Jesus hung on the cross, He said He was thirsty. Then, in John 19:29 we’re told, “A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth” (ESV). Then He declared, “It is finished,” and breathed His last breath (John 19:30b, ESV).

I love how hyssop weaves all of these moments together and points us straight to the hope we have in Jesus. Hyssop was there as the paintbrush at Passover. Hyssop was there as the purification tool of David. And it was there when Jesus became the ultimate Passover lamb, providing the way for us to be cleansed and purified from all sin. ~ An Unexpected Thread of Hope

Hyssop is also a mild sedative when mixed with vinegar. This was one of the mixtures given to Jesus just before He died.
 
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mkgal1

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Hyssop is also a mild sedative when mixed with vinegar. This was one of the mixtures given to Jesus just before He died.
I believe you're thinking of what Jesus was first offered and *refused* (wine mixed with myrrh) - that was a mild sedative.

Quoting from Desiring God:
The first time came in Mark 15:23, “they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it.” William Lane explains,

According to an old tradition, respected women of Jerusalem provided a narcotic drink to those condemned to death in order to decrease their sensitivity to the excruciating pain . . . . When Jesus arrived at Golgotha he was offered . . . wine mixed with myrrh, but he refused it, choosing to endure with full consciousness the sufferings appointed for him (The Gospel of Mark, p. 564).


This first wine represented an offer to ease the pain, to opt for a small shortcut—albeit, not a major one in view of the terrible pain of the cross, but a little one nonetheless. But this offer Jesus refused, and in doing so, chose “to endure with full consciousness the sufferings appointed for him.”

The second time came in Mark 15:35. After some bystanders thought he was calling for Elijah, “someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a hyssop reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, ‘Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.’” Lane comments,

A sour wine vinegar is mentioned in the OT as a refreshing drink (Numbers 6:13; Ruth 2:14), and in Greek and Roman literature as well it is a common beverage appreciated by laborers and soldiers because it relieved thirst more effectively than water and was inexpensive . . . . There are no examples of its use as a hostile gesture. The thought, then, is not of a corrosive vinegar offered as a cruel jest, but of a sour wine of the people. While the words “let us see if Elijah will come” express a doubtful expectation, the offer of the sip of wine was intended to keep Jesus conscious for as long as possible” (Ibid., 573–574).

So the first wine (mixed with myrrh) was designed to dull Jesus’ pain, to keep him from having to endure the cross with full consciousness. This wine he refused.

And the second (sour) wine was given to keep him “conscious for as long as possible,” and thus have the effect of prolonging his pain. This is the wine Jesus drank. ~ https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-wine-jesus-drank
 
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The Righterzpen

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I believe you're thinking of what Jesus was first offered and *refused* (wine mixed with myrrh) - that was a mild sedative.

Quoting from Desiring God:
The first time came in Mark 15:23, “they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it.” William Lane explains,

According to an old tradition, respected women of Jerusalem provided a narcotic drink to those condemned to death in order to decrease their sensitivity to the excruciating pain . . . . When Jesus arrived at Golgotha he was offered . . . wine mixed with myrrh, but he refused it, choosing to endure with full consciousness the sufferings appointed for him (The Gospel of Mark, p. 564).


This first wine represented an offer to ease the pain, to opt for a small shortcut—albeit, not a major one in view of the terrible pain of the cross, but a little one nonetheless. But this offer Jesus refused, and in doing so, chose “to endure with full consciousness the sufferings appointed for him.”

The second time came in Mark 15:35. After some bystanders thought he was calling for Elijah, “someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a hyssop reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, ‘Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.’” Lane comments,

A sour wine vinegar is mentioned in the OT as a refreshing drink (Numbers 6:13; Ruth 2:14), and in Greek and Roman literature as well it is a common beverage appreciated by laborers and soldiers because it relieved thirst more effectively than water and was inexpensive . . . . There are no examples of its use as a hostile gesture. The thought, then, is not of a corrosive vinegar offered as a cruel jest, but of a sour wine of the people. While the words “let us see if Elijah will come” express a doubtful expectation, the offer of the sip of wine was intended to keep Jesus conscious for as long as possible” (Ibid., 573–574).

So the first wine (mixed with myrrh) was designed to dull Jesus’ pain, to keep him from having to endure the cross with full consciousness. This wine he refused.

And the second (sour) wine was given to keep him “conscious for as long as possible,” and thus have the effect of prolonging his pain. This is the wine Jesus drank. ~ https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-wine-jesus-drank

You're missing a passage. John 19:28-30

There's no evidence in Mark that Jesus drank the vinegar. The passage states:

36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down. (KJV)

36 And someone ran, filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a stick, and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.” (NRSV)

36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said. (NIV)

Now the various versions are a bit ambiguous as to the question, did they actually give this to Him? Yet Mark 15 still doesn't state that He actually drank it.

Although you are correct that wine and vinegar mixture has been used for centuries as a means of warding off dehydration. I'm not sure how it works; but I know it was a common practice. I've found it in my historical research on the American Revolution. I think the vinegar served as some sort of chemical binding agent to keep the water in the body. Sort of in the same way that someone might take salt tablets for the same reason.

Anyways; John 19 is sour wine "upon hyssop" - which assuming that means a stalk of the plant. Now being on the Mount of Olives, there obviously was plant life around and so who ever gave Him this; would have wacked it off a near by bush.

Now hyssop does have sedative properties as well as "stimulant" properties. It is commonly used to aide digestion and bring on mensuration. It's also used as a cough suppressant and to treat bronchitis. Does it work differently than Myrrh? I'd have to look that up.
 
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kcnalp

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Based on the scripture below, those who deny the Son do not have a relationship with the Father.

1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

2Jn 1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
2Jn 1:11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.


Pastor Chuck Baldwin reveals one of the greatest deceptions in the history of the Church.
At one time it deceived him.



.
Stay tuned.

Jeremiah 24:5-7
5 "Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel: 'Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge those who are carried away captive from Judah, whom I have sent out of this place for their own good, into the land of the Chaldeans.
6 For I will set My eyes on them for good, and I will bring them back to this land; I will build them and not pull them down, and I will plant them and not pluck them up.
7 Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.
 
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kcnalp

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Correction...God fights for "the Israel of God"!
And "the Israel of God" is in Israel. And they will stay no matter how many speak or fight against them to their own peril. Israel is back to stay.

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.
 
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BABerean2

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Stay tuned.

Jeremiah 24:5-7
5 "Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel: 'Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge those who are carried away captive from Judah, whom I have sent out of this place for their own good, into the land of the Chaldeans.
6 For I will set My eyes on them for good, and I will bring them back to this land; I will build them and not pull them down, and I will plant them and not pluck them up.
7 Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.

Who is James addressing in the passage below, when he referred to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith"?


Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.
 
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parousia70

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And "the Israel of God" is in Israel. And they will stay no matter how many speak or fight against them to their own peril. Israel is back to stay.

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

All the prophecies about the dispersion and return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.

"In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places desolate . . . ye shall be scattered among the countries . . . among the nations whither they shall be carried captives . . . all the house of Israel shall remove and go into captivity . . . I will scatter them among the nations" (Ezekiel ch. 6–12).

This was the Diaspora. . . . And now the re-gathering of the Jews to their own land 70 years later:

"For thus saith the Lord, that after 70 years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you . . . and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations . . . and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive" (Jeremiah. 29: 10-14).

Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews from/to the geographic boundaries of earthly Israel.

Not even ONE.

And even if there were, That a 20th century UN fiat declared the land of Palestine be given to Modern day Multi-ethnic Secularists who purport to be followers of the post-Christian, man made religion of the Babylonian Talmud, does not equate to "God prophetically Bringing the Hebrew people back to Israel" for several requirements are not met.

Here's just a few:
1) The people there are not Hebrews nor are they descended from Hebrews
2) They do not Follow Moses or Practice Biblical Judaism in any way
3) Modern Israel is a Secular Democracy, not a Biblical Theocracy

No matter how much you dress up a Pig to look like a cow, it's Never going to be a cow.
 
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kcnalp

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All the prophecies about the dispersion and return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.

"In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places desolate . . . ye shall be scattered among the countries . . . among the nations whither they shall be carried captives . . . all the house of Israel shall remove and go into captivity . . . I will scatter them among the nations" (Ezekiel ch. 6–12).

This was the Diaspora. . . . And now the re-gathering of the Jews to their own land 70 years later:

"For thus saith the Lord, that after 70 years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you . . . and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations . . . and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive" (Jeremiah. 29: 10-14).

Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews from/to the geographic boundaries of earthly Israel.

Not even ONE.

And even if there were, That a 20th century UN fiat declared the land of Palestine be given to Modern day Multi-ethnic Secularists who purport to be followers of the post-Christian, man made religion of the Babylonian Talmud, does not equate to "God prophetically Bringing the Hebrew people back to Israel" for several requirements are not met.

Here's just a few:
1) The people there are not Hebrews nor are they descended from Hebrews
2) They do not Follow Moses or Practice Biblical Judaism in any way
3) Modern Israel is a Secular Democracy, not a Biblical Theocracy

No matter how much you dress up a Pig to look like a cow, it's Never going to be a cow.
So the rebirth of Israel is just coincidence? Nope! God has warned us that this is the terminal generation.

Luke 21:32
32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.
 
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parousia70

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So the rebirth of Israel is just coincidence?

Coincidence to what?

And As I mentioned, and you have yet to refute, Today's Israel is not a RE-Birth of anything... Its a BRAND NEW THING, with ZERO relationship to the pre-desolation Biblical nation.

Nope! God has warned us that this is the terminal generation.

Luke 21:32
32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

Actually Jesus gave that warning to His disciples generation 1900+ years ago.
 
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kcnalp

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Who is James addressing in the passage below, when he referred to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith"?


Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.
Soon to come:

Romans 11:26-27
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
 
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kcnalp

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Coincidence to what?




Actually Jesus gave that warning to His disciples generation 1900+ years ago.
It was a dual prophecy. Part for that generation and part for this generation. Did you know Jesus will return to Israel?

Zechariah 14:1-4
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
 
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parousia70

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Soon to come:

What do you mean by "soon"? do you mean the same thing the apostles meant when they told their contemporaries that it was "soon to come" or are you using a different definition of soon than the apostles used?
 
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kcnalp

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What do you mean by "soon"? do you mean the same thing the apostles meant when they told their contemporaries that it was "soon to come" or are you using a different definition of soon?
Some who witnessed Israel recover Jerusalem in 1967 will witness Jesus return.

Luke 21:24 And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Luke 21:32
32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

This is the terminal generation.
 
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parousia70

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It was a dual prophecy. Part for that generation

So the words "this generation will not pass away until ALL these things take" place was for both generations?

3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
What does "as he fights in the day of battle" mean?

Got any examples of how the Lord previously came to earth and fought in the day of battle?
 
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parousia70

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Some who witnessed Israel recover Jerusalem in 1967 will witness Jesus return.

Luke 21:24 And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Luke 21:32
32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

This is the terminal generation.

And How long does the Bible say a generation is?
 
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kcnalp

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So the words "this generation will not pass away until ALL these things take" place was for both generations?


What does "as he fights in the day of battle" mean?

Got any examples of how the Lord previously came to earth and fought in the day of battle?
Check out the OT where God fought for Israel.
 
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mkgal1

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And "the Israel of God" is in Israel.
Nope.

Romans 9:6 ~ Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of Israel (God’s people)!
 
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