Only 10% in the US do not have medical insurance

mark46 · Aug 5, 2019

My apologize if I haven't been clear.

We should restore the subsidies and all other actions that Trum p has taken against the ACA. We would then have the ACA without the mandate. We would then need a public option to make the ACA work. In addition, the subsidies would need to be raised. The premiums became much too high because many states chose not to expand Medicaid. Thus, I support Biden's plan to expand the ACA, rather than replace it.

RDKirk said:
You said "We need to take the next step" but you never said what you think the "next step" should be.

DZoolander · Aug 5, 2019

All this talk about eliminating the mandate yet keeping the protections of the ACA makes me think people don’t really have a grasp on how insurance works.

timothyu · Aug 5, 2019

RDKirk said:
Nothing out of new weapons procurement, though.

The backbone of American industry?

ArmenianJohn · Aug 5, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
Listen, I am going to break this down as simply as I can. If the affordable care act wasnt another progressive failure, you have to dismiss the 35 million who are uninsured. Why? Because healthcare is now affordable because of the ACA. Therefore, the only conclusion is that 35 million people deliberately choose to be uninsured because they rather spend their money on other things....period. Unless, of course, the ACA is another progressive failure, then we must ask why the heck should we trust the Democrats with another pie in the sky plan to fix the healthcare problem?

How can the ACA be a progressive failure when it's not even progressive?

ArmenianJohn · Aug 5, 2019

DZoolander said:
All this talk about eliminating the mandate yet keeping the protections of the ACA makes me think people don’t really have a grasp on how insurance works.

I think it's that or they're willfully ignorant as the only way to deal with their cognitive dissonance.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Aug 5, 2019

RDKirk said:
Haven't the Republicans been talking about that for the last couple of years? Wasn't that Trump's campaign promise?

What is your suggestion? For that matter, what has been their suggestion for fixing it? What's the grand plan that would get everyone covered cheaper than Obamacare?

I think the first step is addressing the reasons why healthcare is so expensive in the first place. Otherwise, insurance is only going to increase as a result of the increased cost of health services. You see, rising health insurance premiums are just a symptom of the bigger problem, the rising cost of healthcare services and prescriptions. Tackle the problem of making healthcare more affordable and insurance rates will go down. Having medicare for all will only drive up the cost of services and result in the rationing of health care.

comana · Aug 5, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
I think the first step is addressing the reasons why healthcare is so expensive in the first place. Otherwise, insurance is only going to increase as a result of the increased cost of health services. You see, rising health insurance premiums are just a symptom of the bigger problem, the rising cost of healthcare services and prescriptions. Tackle the problem of making healthcare more affordable and insurance rates will go down. Having medicare for all will only drive up the cost of services and result in the rationing of health care.

Medicare for all will have negotiating power to drive costs down. Your thinking doesn’t reflect reality.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Aug 5, 2019

cow451 said:
Like..........?

Like repealing the failed Affordable Care Act that drove insurance premiums up by an average of 147% in the last 10 years and replace it with something that actually works. Obamacare has been directly responsible for everyone's insurance premiums increasing by as much as 99% since 2013. Obamacare is such a failure that even if the Republicans just repealed it altogether it would be better than what is happening now.
U.S. House Passes Republican Health Bill, a Step toward Obamacare Repeal

4 Myths about the Republican Health Reform Bill (AHCA), or American Health Care Act - eHealth Insurance Resource Center

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Aug 5, 2019

RDKirk said:
Well, defunding Obamacare, yeah.

Well, arguably it is one of the major causes for the increased cost of healthcare and insurance premiums. So, repealing it and replacing it with something better has been what they have been trying to do since day one.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Aug 5, 2019

DZoolander said:
Honestly - because I’d say any system that leaves private insurance in place is fundamentally flawed. The goal of private insurance is to figure out how to deny and limit coverage - not provide efficient and affordable access to coverage.

And it’s the latter I think we should be striving for.

Obamacare had the explicit goal of keeping private insurance in place.

And in a socialized government controlled healthcare system, the goal is to ration healthcare and deny and limit services, or at the very least have an extremely long wait list, so that the system doesn't collapse onto itself. I mean, yeah it is great if you need minor services like getting stiches or cold medicine. But if you have a serious problem, like cancer or a organ transplant, you would have better luck elsewhere.
Why Canadians Are Increasingly Seeking Medical Treatment Abroad

By the way, I remember a time when Republicans warned that the progressives were going to try to take away my health insurance. Democrats accused republicans of fear mongering. Progressives accused conservatives of the slippery slope fallacy. Obama said "If you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance." Yet here you are, and many others, are finally coming out into the open and admitting that the Republican "fear mongering" slippery slope was true all along by telling me that you not only want my health insurance taken away, but everyone's health insurance taken away. Once again, it is things like this that make it almost impossible for me to ever trust a progressive.

DZoolander · Aug 5, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
I think the first step is addressing the reasons why healthcare is so expensive in the first place. Otherwise, insurance is only going to increase as a result of the increased cost of health services. You see, rising health insurance premiums are just a symptom of the bigger problem, the rising cost of healthcare services and prescriptions. Tackle the problem of making healthcare more affordable and insurance rates will go down. Having medicare for all will only drive up the cost of services and result in the rationing of health care.

I agree with most of what you’ve said about why insurance is so expensive - but disagree with the conclusion. A huge part of the outrageous cost of insurance is a consequence of other related market sectors - like pharma. The corruption in that sector is astounding - and is a huge contributor to our costs.

Other countries have been able to harness their singular buying power to negotiate far better prices than our segmented market can (nevermind the way they’ve passed legislation making it illegal for Medicare/Medicaid to use their buying power to negotiate price) - etc.

That’s an area that needs to be seriously addressed - maybe revisit how we handle patent law with respect to pharmaceuticals - etc.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Aug 5, 2019

comana said:
Medicare for all will have negotiating power to drive costs down. Your thinking doesn’t reflect reality.

But the Affordable Care act was supposed to do that. Sorry, democrats had their chance to fix the healthcare problem. But rather than coming up with actual solutions that will work, it was forced down the throats of the American people by Nancy Pelosi who told everyone "we have to pass the bill to know what's in it." Well, now we know what is in it and it is a disaster. I will never trust the democrats again with my healthcare. Sorry, not sorry.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Aug 5, 2019

DZoolander said:
Honestly - because I’d say any system that leaves private insurance in place is fundamentally flawed.

Says the person who said:

DZoolander said:
More like “the government decided they were too rich for assistance”.

So your solution give the government more power to decide who gets healthcare.

timothyu · Aug 5, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
So your solution give the government more power to decide who gets healthcare.

How about everybody like here who all get it on an equal basis with no denial.

comana · Aug 5, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
But the Affordable Care act was supposed to do that. Sorry, democrats had their chance to fix the healthcare problem. But rather than coming up with actual solutions that will work, it was forced down the throats of the American people by Nancy Pelosi who told everyone "we have to pass the bill to know what's in it." Well, now we know what is in it and it is a disaster. I will never trust the democrats again with my healthcare. Sorry, not sorry.

And what is this great Republican fix we’ve been waiting nearly a decade for?

timothyu · Aug 5, 2019

comana said:
And what is this great Republican fix we’ve been waiting nearly a decade for?

Never to be disclosed as long as it is electorally advantageous.

comana · Aug 5, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
And in a socialized government controlled healthcare system, the goal is to ration healthcare and deny and limit services, or at the very least have an extremely long wait list, so that the system doesn't collapse onto itself. I mean, yeah it is great if you need minor services like getting stiches or cold medicine. But if you have a serious problem, like cancer or a organ transplant, you would have better luck elsewhere.
Why Canadians Are Increasingly Seeking Medical Treatment Abroad

By the way, I remember a time when Republicans warned that the progressives were going to try to take away my health insurance. Democrats accused republicans of fear mongering. Progressives accused conservatives of the slippery slope fallacy. Obama said "If you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance." Yet here you are, and many others, are finally coming out into the open and admitting that the Republican "fear mongering" slippery slope was true all along by telling me that you not only want my health insurance taken away, but everyone's health insurance taken away. Once again, it is things like this that make it almost impossible for me to ever trust a progressive.

Why aren’t we hearing about all these tragic scenarios of rationing, long waitlists, and elderly dying without adequate care from all of our population enrolled in Medicare?

DZoolander · Aug 5, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
Says the person who said:

So your solution give the government more power to decide who gets healthcare.

How is that inconsistent?

In the ACA they tried to keep private health insurance plans in place in an effort to create a plan that could garner some right wing support - not realizing what a fool’s errand that was.

As a consequence - they needed to realize higher prices were going to stay and dole out subsidies. And given how the prices went - I think they set the subsidy levels too low.

That error doesn’t make me go “well god darn it - ain’t going to have anything to do with the government again”. Especially when I see the dysfunction of the private insurance system relative to the best run plans we have - Medicare and Medicaid.

DZoolander · Aug 5, 2019

comana said:
Why aren’t we hearing about all these tragic scenarios of rationing, long waitlists, and elderly dying without adequate care from all of our population enrolled in Medicare?

The last time the “socialized medicine” debate came up and the whole “Canadians are coming here for procedures!” Stuff was lobbed our there - I looked into what reports I could find that actually examined those claims.

For the most part - yes - that does happen. But MOSTLY it’s for non major relatively inexpensive elective procedures and/or tests.

The number of MAJOR types of procedures were extremely few - as in - could count a years worth on your hands type of infrequent. And there’s an obvious reason why. How many people can afford to pay American full freight cost of procedures without insurance coverage? And that’s what they’d be doing.

For example my father in law’s open heart surgery. $450,000 bill. Without insurance sure you could probably negotiate a good percent off - but how many people are laying around with an extra $250,000 to spend?

So there are grains of truth to it - but it’s exaggerated for political purposes.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Aug 5, 2019

timothyu said:
How about everybody like here who all get it on an equal basis with no denial.

Perhaps in a fantasy land where there is an unlimited supply of money, doctors, and health service workers that would be possible. But in the real world, at some point the government is going to have to ration healthcare by deciding who gets what treatments. I predict that the elderly will be cut first because they have the least number of taxable years left in them and they also make up most of the cost. But I guess this is all just "fear mongering" with a slippery slope. No different when I told everyone that the progressives were going to eventually try to take everyone's health insurance away after Obama care failed to compete with the private competition. Mark my words, if Elizabeth Warren gets her way, stand by for the "I told you so's" when the death panels are implemented to determine which of the elderly dies first.

Only 10% in the US do not have medical insurance

Well-Known Member

Persnickety Member

Well-Known Member

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Persnickety Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Persnickety Member

Persnickety Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads