How is Salvation, or anything you get from God, a "free gift" if our own will got it for us...?

Neogaia777

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It doesn't matter. Even if I was all knowing, well in this case I was 99% certain, it doesn't change the fact that my son made a decision by his own free will. Just because God knows the decisions we make before we make them, it doesn't mean that they are not our decisions. Otherwise, we would not be responsible for our decisions. Thus, God would then have created people for the sole purpose of them spending eternity in hell. God would be the cause of all sins because he would also be responsible for everyone's decision to sin. That doesn't sound like the God in the Bible.

No, it sounds like the Heavenly Father God Jesus spoke about...

Who has the right to do whatever He wishes and still be God and still be deserving of our honor and obedience and worship to Him as God...

God Bless!
If you only understood His reasons, and/or had an accurate knowledge of the truth, you'd understand...

Understand that His actions and reasons and motivations are 100% and completely totally just, ect... And very, very right and very holy and very, very good, most especially for us, etc... Or those of us who believe in/on His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, our King and Savior and Lord, etc...

(and it helps a lot to believe in/on the Holy Spirit also or too) (but, then again, most of you don't even know who He is, so...)

God Bless!
 
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Strong in Him

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No, it sounds like the Heavenly Father God Jesus spoke about...

Who has the right to do whatever He wishes and still be God !

He can do as he wishes, but he will not go against, or act outside of, his own nature - which is loving, holy, just, truthful, righteous, merciful etc.
 
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Strong in Him

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(and it helps a lot to believe in/on the Holy Spirit also or too) (but, then again, most of you don't even know who He is, so...)

That's rather judgemental, and rude - on what evidence do you base that comment?
 
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Neogaia777

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That's rather judgemental, and rude - on what evidence do you base that comment?
Well it most definitely was not at all, AT ALL, meant to be judgmental and/or rude, for when I said it, it was with a very deep feeling of sorrow and regret in my heart when I said it, sighs and great sighing attached to it, etc...

And as for the last part, I'm not allowed to talk about it too much here, but, if you guys use your minds (again no offense meant) and apply it to this, you should be able to figure it out without me having to go into in great detail...

God Bless!
 
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sdowney717

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Look and you will see that the words for choose and choice in the New Covenant is all on God choosing us, nothing on us choosing God.

We do receive Him because He chose us, and made us to be what we are. He did that by making us new creations in Christ, that is born again by His Spirit. All who sin are slaves of Sin and if the Son makes you free, you shall be free (of sin) indeed.
HE MADE US ACCEPTABLE TO HIMSELF, prior to that we were following the devil, read Ephesians 2

Ephesians 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
 
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Strong in Him

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Well it most definitely was not at all, AT ALL, meant to be judgmental and/or rude, for when I said it, it was with a very deep feeling of sorrow and regret in my heart when I said it, sighs and great sighing attached to it, etc...

I accept you didn't intend it to sound rude.
But if I understand you correctly, you were saying that most of us don't know who the Holy Spirit is?
If so, you have no idea who any of us are, far less the relationship we have with God; you can't know that most of us don't know who the Holy Spirit is - so you are making a judgement.
 
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Neogaia777

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I accept you didn't intend it to sound rude.
But if I understand you correctly, you were saying that most of us don't know who the Holy Spirit is?
If so, you have no idea who any of us are, far less the relationship we have with God; you can't know that most of us don't know who the Holy Spirit is - so you are making a judgement.
Well, I do sincerely apologize then... but I still don't think very many of you really truly know who the Holy Spirit of God is... Most of you just only know Jesus, most of you, but maybe not all of you maybe...?

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Well, I do sincerely apologize then... but I still don't think very many of you really truly know who the Holy Spirit of God is... Most of you just only know Jesus, most of you, but maybe not all of you maybe...?

God Bless!
And if you truly know and see Jesus for who and what He truly is, then you should know and see the Heavenly Father also, and then, and only after that, you should be able to at least, come to know the Holy Spirit, but only after that, and I'm sorry, but many of you just do not know Him yet...

God Bless!
 
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sdowney717

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People do make a decision to receive the Lord Jesus, but the end is predetermined beforehand.
Jesus said everyone whom the Holy Spirit teaches, comes to Him.
John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

That is all that have come to Christ have been taught by the Holy Spirit to do that.
And in John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If your a careful student of the word, you will notice v12-v13, they received Christ because they were born of God. The being born came before they received Him.
Same idea is in 1 john 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
 
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Strong in Him

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And if you truly know and see Jesus for who and what He truly is, then you should know and see the Heavenly Father also, and then, and only after that, you should be able to at least, come to know the Holy Spirit, but only after that, and I'm sorry, but many of you just do not know Him yet...

I repeat, you don't KNOW that.

This forum is for Christians only and all posts must acknowledge, and not contradict, the Nicene Creed. This creed says the following about the Holy Spirit:

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

I do realise that it is possible for someone to be a churchgoer, assent to the creed in theory and call themselves a Christian without truly being born again and have received the Holy Spirit; I was like that myself for a number of years.
But it's unfair, and dangerous, for you to claim that "most" people in this forum may be like that and do not know him.
 
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