Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

Phil W · Aug 4, 2019

nolidad said:
Yes you do!

For according to you - under the Mosaic covenant God had much forgiveness for His people for their actions of sin.

Under the New covenant where the lamb slain for forgiveness of sin once for all, you say that once someone becomes a child of God- if they screw up they are cast out for there is no more forgiveness fo sin for them!

Children of God don't screw up.
His seed remaineth in them.
Thanks be to God.
Fig trees cannot bear grapes.

Phil W · Aug 4, 2019

nolidad said:
Maybe you never read this verse:
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

I have read it before.
And the Advocate interceded on my behalf when I turned from sin.
You twist it to maintain a life without repentance from sin.

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

I have set it aside, and run the race.
Others glory in their sins and watch the race from the sidelines.

Why would the writer say this under inspiration if believers are not allowed to sin under penalty of losing their salvation?

Because some men actually believe and heed the exhortations of God's prophets and apostles.
"Allowed to sin"...very enlightening wording again.

Romans 12:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Why would paul write this (in the verb that means keep being transformed instead of being conformed) If a believer would lose their salvation if they went and conformed themself to the world in one area?[/QUOTE]
Because some men believe his words and obey.
Be transformed...instead of doing the same old thing over and over again.

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Why didn't John make it clear that Jesus is only the propitiation for just our sins until we get saved???

Because after we "get saved" we don't go back into darkness.

Did you read the next two verses?
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
It seems John does say "and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them."

Phil W · Aug 4, 2019

nolidad said:
learn what repentance means!

"Turn from", or, "change".
It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
If one is sorry for a sin, they won't do it again.

Jan001 · Aug 5, 2019

BCsenior said:
Thank you for posting all of those Scriptures ... and there are many more!

May I add that it's all about having the correct heart attitude.
Trying, confessing, repenting, etc. will surely get the job done.
IMO, it's more important than being absolutely perfect, thank God!

You are welcome.

I agree with you. That is why Jesus commanded us to strive.

Luke 13:23-27
And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!’ rsv

Jan001 · Aug 5, 2019

Phil W said:
Why doesn't that apply to Enoch and Elijah?
They didn't "die".
In fact, neither did Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob, as God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Don't make the mistake of confusing "life" with the condition of the vessel.

Enoch and Elijah did not physically die yet. I believe they will be the two witnesses prophesied in Revelation who will preach to the Jews shortly before Jesus returns for His second and final coming. Revelation 11:1-3

All the other patriarchs' bodies have physically died, but their spirits are immortal and so they are conscious and are ruling with Jesus right now while awaiting the resurrection of their bodies when Jesus returns for His second coming. Revelation 20:1-5 The thousand years is symbolic for the time period between Jesus' first coming (His birth, death, resurrection, ascension) and His second and final coming at the time of the resurrection of all the dead. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

The Saints in heaven are made aware of us who are still on earth and they are praying for us. Revelation 5:8

The Patriarchs' of the OT are the great cloud of witnesses that are surrounding us right now:

Hebrews 11, 12:1-3
The Meaning of Faith
11 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old received divine approval. 3 By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear.

The Examples of Abel, Enoch, and Noah
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he received approval as righteous, God bearing witness by accepting his gifts; he died, but through his faith he is still speaking. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, took heed and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; by this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness which comes by faith.

The Faith of Abraham
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he looked forward to the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13 These all died in faith, not having received what was promised, but having seen it and greeted it from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son, 18 of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named.” 19 He considered that God was able to raise men even from the dead; hence, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. 20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau. 21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his burial.

The Faith of Moses
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful; and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to share ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He considered abuse suffered for the Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he looked to the reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king; for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the first-born might not touch them.

The Faith of Other Israelite Heroes
29 By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as if on dry land; but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. 31 By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given friendly welcome to the spies.

32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, received promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched raging fire, escaped the edge of the sword, won strength out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and scourging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword; they went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, ill-treated— 38 of whom the world was not worthy—wandering over deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And all these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. rsv

We Christians on earth are surrounded by the Spirits in heaven through their prayers.

There is no such thing as an imperfect righteous person.
One cancels out the other.

A question to ask yourself: Am I righteous? Do I still do sins that are not mortal/spiritually deadly sins?

If you believe that you are a righteous person but you still do sins that are not mortal sins - you are an imperfect righteous person. 1 John 5:16-17

Examples of not mortal sins: impatience, grumpiness, selfishness concerning small things, yelling at your children, etc.

Jan001 · Aug 5, 2019

nolidad said:
Well of course we are to put to death all sinful habits. But it doesn't happen at once neither does one attain sinless perfection either!

And verse 6 refers to the 70th week of Daniel, not the lake of fire!

I think that Jesus' first coming (birth) in about 2 B.C. began the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week. Halfway through this 70th week, Jesus was crucified (cut off) in about 33 A.D., which is about 35 years later and so this is halfway through the 70th week. The destruction of Jerusalem about 35 years later in 70 A.D. was the end of the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week. There is no long pause between the 69th week of Daniel and the 70th week of Daniel. The years are consecutive.

One explanation is here:
Daniel and the Great Unveiling

But notice he is writing to believers(born again saints) and encouraging them to put these things off! If they had already put them off, no need to write!

And you should be more careful when applying "context"

Colossians 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

If in Collossians 3 verse 1 is a second case conditional which is better translated "since".

and the wrath cometh on the children of disobedience- which are those who are not "sinners" but those who have refused Christ!

RE: and the wrath cometh on the children of disobedience- which are those who are not "sinners" but those who have refused Christ!"

The children of disobedience are the people who have denied Christ by their own evil deeds/works.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed. rsv

The wrath of God will come upon all who do not know God and all who do not obey His gospel.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9
since indeed God deems it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant rest with us to you who are afflicted, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, rsv

Jan001 · Aug 5, 2019

nolidad said:
This would be incorrect! It is one who has been born naturally (of water- that is a Hebraism) and of the spirit. Jesus evens makes sure it is clarified!

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of water AND the Spirit refers to the baptism of a person as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20. This is a spiritual rebirth.

Born of the flesh is the natural physical birth of a person through the mother's birth canal or by C-section. Nicodemus referred to this type of birth.

John 3:4
Nicode′mus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” rsv

Jesus states that a person cannot enter the kingdom of God/heaven (after his death) unless he has been baptized as Jesus commanded.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. rsv

Let us hope your children never disobey once! If you give them teh same love you say God gives us- they are done for!

But you did not see the difference in the two verses! verse 10 says abide in His love.
Verse 6 says abide in Him.

One can abide in Christ and not be perfect. That is called being a disobedient child- but a child none the less!

Abide in His love is what we are called to strive to do. God is LOVE so if we abide in Him, we also abide in His love.

.

The Word of God says we have been!

I don't know what you mean by this statement.

You left out thoughts! but these are for unbelievers! Believers have passed from judgment to eternal life and Jesus said no one can pull us out of His or Our Fathers hands!

John 10"27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” rsv

Jesus is speaking of only the people who will be faithful/follow Him in obedience to His commandments until their death. Only these people were put into His and His Father's hands before the foundation of the world.

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? rsv

Jesus is not the Lord of the people who disobey His commandments.

1 John 2:3
And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. rsv

WOW! talk about taking a verse and redefining it! Going back to the roman apostasy to justify people can lose their salvation! Sorry you lack understanding and you live knowing you may or may not be saved.

Please read Matthew 25:31-46 and then you will know exactly how Jesus states that He will judge all the people who have ever lived on earth. Jesus will judge them by their works. Their eternal home will be determined by what type of works they did on earth. The people who did righteous works on earth will inherit heaven. The people who did evil works or failed to do good works on earth will inherit eternal wrath.

Take it up with God!

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

You confuse perfection with sanctification!

Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE) has a better translation of this Greek verse:

because gar by a single heis offering prosphora he has perfected teleioō for eis all ho time diēnekēs those ho who are being made holy hagiazō.

No, I do not confuse the two. Whoever is baptized as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20 has been sanctified. He must still be in the state of sanctification at the time of his death in order to be approved to inherit eternal life.

The Baptism as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20 is explained in more detail here:

1 Corinthians 6:11
And some of you were guilty of these abominations! But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. rsv

Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name. rsv

that is one of my life verses! I love this one and pray daily to continue to be transformed as we are commanded here!

Mine too.

Now study each verse and learn that Phillipians is not salvation and 1 John is not about a believer who stumbles in sin.

One of the reasons that the NT was written was to warn believers to continue in the faith and to warn them to not fall away from salvation through their own sins.

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, “It is through many tribulations that we must enter the kingdom of God.” rsv

Galatians 5:3-5
I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law (of Moses); you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness.

Faith in Christ is obedience to His commandments.
Belief in Christ is obedience to His commandments.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! rsv

Jesus states that there will be Christians who will give in to temptation and sin and thereby the consequence of their sin is that they no longer believe in Him. If a person believes in Christ, he obeys Christ's commandments.

Jesus is not the Lord of the Christians who fail to obey His commandments.

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? rsv

Luke 13:23-27
And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity! rsv

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ rsv

If a person is a child of god God has already perfeced HIm positionally, noew they are being sanctified so that what they are in position by divine decree they will become more and more in their daily experience. It is that simple. God is forever over being mad at His children for their acts of sin! He judged them all at teh cross!

Salvation is a life-long process. It is not a one-time event.

Acts 20:32
And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified (those who have died and whose spirits have been made perfect and are now in heaven). Hebrews 12:21-23

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. rsv

Jesus did not judge anyone at the cross. He will judge each person after he/she dies.

Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment, rsv

nolidad · Aug 5, 2019

BCsenior said:
Yes, Romans 6 ends off by saying that believers who
choose to be habitual sinners receive eternal death.

The 2 choices in Romans 6:
-- slaves of sin leading to eternal death
-- slaves of obedience leading to righteousness

Romans 6 agrees with all of the other NT verses which teach that
we MUST practice righteousness to continue to be righteous in God's eyes!

This would be grossly incorrect!

Wages of sin is death- it does not say eternal death- that is opinion added on.
Gods GIFT is eternal life- people do not earn gifts.

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Galatians 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:26
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:9
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus is the righteousness of those who are saved. Not our deeds.

1 Peter 1:

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Even my salvation is something I can get to as a believer! It is kept and reserved waiting for me in heaven!

This teaching that Jesus only got you in and good works are required to keep you saved- is a lie!

nolidad · Aug 5, 2019

Jan001 said:
Born of water AND the Spirit refers to the baptism of a person as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20. This is a spiritual rebirth.

Born of the flesh is the natural physical birth of a person through the mother's birth canal or by C-section. Nicodemus referred to this type of birth.

Born of water is a Hebraism that means natural birth. We have a saying these days when a woman gewts ready to deliver--"her water broke". It does not mean water and spirit baptism.

Jan001 said:
Abide in His love is what we are called to strive to do. God is LOVE so if we abide in Him, we also abide in His love.

We always as believers abide in Him- He never leaves or forsakes us! His mercies never end!

Jan001 said:
John 10"27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” rsv

Jesus is speaking of only the people who will be faithful/follow Him in obedience to His commandments until their death. Only these people were put into His and His Father's hands before the foundation of the world.

And I do follow Him- but it does not mean sinless perfection as some who have been deceived by that abominable lie believe.

It is wonderful if one can attain sinless perfection in thei slife. But God our Father never stops loving HIs children when we have bad days!

Jan001 said:
No, I do not confuse the two. Whoever is baptized as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20 has been sanctified. He must still be in the state of sanctification at the time of his death in order to be approved to inherit eternal life.

Well we are all in the state of sanctification! We are all being made holy. some are further along than others! We are declared holy and now God is making us holy (saints simply means set apart ones which is also a meaning of sanctification- to be set apart for noble or holy uses.)

Jan001 said:
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ rsv

Now read it again more closely this time! Jesus said " I NEVER KNEW YOU" not I knew you once but don't know you now! IOW these are people who were never saved, they were trying to please God by good works which cannot happen ever!

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 5, 2019

Phil W said:
Learning verb tenses

Seeking the truth, all the time, while Seeking Yahuweh's Kingdom,
He will Reveal the Truth , with the CORRECT VERB TENSES, as to little children,

which is different than men who don't know believe, because >>

BCsenior said:
Yet, whole denominations ignore and/or reject many verses
in the NT ... the ones which stand against their pet doctrines!

Such is the power of Satan's lies and deceptions
... both through the churches and in believers' lives!

They have NOT received the spiritual Truth of how to ...
RECONCILE 2 sets of NT verses, which appear to be in opposition.

Phil W said:
Children of God don't screw up.
His seed remaineth in them.
Thanks be to God.
Fig trees cannot bear grapes.

If the Children of God did not screw up, they would not have to be forgiven 70 times 7 times , and the Epistles of Corinthians would not have been written, and much more of Scripture would not have been written, which Scripture illustrates the many many mistakes ("screw ups") the Children of God make DAILY, every DAY, for thousands of years.....

Phil W said:
"Turn from", or, "change".
It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
If one is sorry for a sin, they won't do it again.

Being sorry for a sin, does not prevent it happening again, even 70 times a day.

nolidad · Aug 5, 2019

Phil W said:
"Turn from", or, "change".
It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
If one is sorry for a sin, they won't do it again.

I pray you never have children! But no repentance means to change (meta) mind or thinking(noia)

YOu have been taught wrong that people will never commit sin again. YOu ignore the hundreds of verses (or twist them according to the deception that has overcome you) that says God keeps confoming us to the image of Christ! YOu say we are conformed instantly and if we screw up ever again -it is all over for that person! That is not the Creatror and Redeemer!

nolidad · Aug 5, 2019

Phil W said:
I have read it before.
And the Advocate interceded on my behalf when I turned from sin.
You twist it to maintain a life without repentance from sin.

No that it is you twisting my words as you do Scripture!

I do not advocate life without repentance from sin! If instead of committing the sin of presumption about what I believe, you simnply asked me, I preach holiness with a vengeance! But I also know the mercy and grace of God- I just wish you would lear.

You have HIm as an angry unforgiving God. YOu get to be saved- but one sin and He kicks you out!

Phil W said:
I have set it aside, and run the race.
Others glory in their sins and watch the race from the sidelines.

Yes unbelievers do watch from the stands. We believers we run the race, stumble trip fall and get up dust off acknowledge and move on in the race!

Phil W said:
Children of God don't screw up.
His seed remaineth in them.
Thanks be to God.
Fig trees cannot bear grapes.

Yes they do! And when they do , they obey God and ackowledge what they did is sin, and God experientially forgives them and keeps cleansing them from sin as Scripture says for believers!

nolidad · Aug 5, 2019

Phil W said:
Because some men actually believe and heed the exhortations of God's prophets and apostles.
"Allowed to sin"...very enlightening wording again.

As do I- and follow Christ to the best I am able. When I fall short- 1 john 1:9 which is for believers not unbelievers!

Don't read to much into allow- and sin the sin of presumptiousness again!

nolidad · Aug 5, 2019

Phil W said:
If you have turned from sin you won't commit sin anymore at all.
Otherwise, you didn't really turn from it.

Well I am grateful you are no t my Lord and Savior. But my Savior who is spoken of in the Bible- is rich in mercy and patience wioth those whom have recieved Him by Faith and He has given them His righteousness.!

nolidad · Aug 5, 2019

Phil W said:
What a pathetic excuse for offending God.
Men are born with a God given conscience and know sin is sin.
Who says sin is not sin?

Well you need to take that up with the inspired writers of Gods Word.Though given your sense of superiority I am not surprised you challenge what Gods Word means!

And if you knew your Bible you would know men are born in darkness and enemies of God!
The unsaved man cannot understand the things of god, for they are foolishness to HIm.

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

See this applies to the brothers and sisters you condemn by your personal theology!

Ephesians 2

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

nolidad · Aug 5, 2019

Phil W said:
You mention "truth".
Jesus said the truth would make us free...from committing sin, in John 8:32-34.
Learning verb tenses is often used as a delaying tactic to obedience to God.
It is often used as a crutch for those who don't really want to be free from committing sin.
In fact I have often seen men use their knowledge of Hebrew, Greek, and verb tenses to refute the word of God...much to their own destruction.

Wrong Again (as usual)!

Learning verb tenses means learning what God actually said and not what you wish Him to say to place men in bondage!

YOu accuse people of just wishing to avoid be hoily so they want to keep sinning (well sometimes that is true. But most of the time that is just a blatant lie from hell! all the children of God have an innate desire to please god because His love has been shed abroad in our hearts.

He has patience. You don't. He works with His children- you wouldn't!

His love never ends- It appears yours is a one shot deal! He forgives 70 X 7- you just once.

He lets His children grow daily in grace and truth and holiness and knowing the Word (which causes us to grow as Romans 12 declares) You have no need for HIs word to gorw because you think you are perfect already and have no need to grow anymore in Holiness for you think you have attained and maintained perfect holiness the moment you got saved.

Well fort the rest of us we will rely on HIs Word as written and not reinterpreted to conform to a deceiving lie!

Phil W · Aug 5, 2019

Jan001 said:
Enoch and Elijah did not physically die yet. I believe they will be the two witnesses prophesied in Revelation who will preach to the Jews shortly before Jesus returns for His second and final coming. Revelation 11:1-3

All the other patriarchs' bodies have physically died, but their spirits are immortal and so they are conscious and are ruling with Jesus right now while awaiting the resurrection of their bodies when Jesus returns for His second coming. Revelation 20:1-5 The thousand years is symbolic for the time period between Jesus' first coming (His birth, death, resurrection, ascension) and His second and final coming at the time of the resurrection of all the dead. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

The Saints in heaven are made aware of us who are still on earth and they are praying for us. Revelation 5:8

The Patriarchs' of the OT are the great cloud of witnesses that are surrounding us right now:

Hebrews 11, 12:1-3
The Meaning of Faith
11 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old received divine approval. 3 By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear.

The Examples of Abel, Enoch, and Noah
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he received approval as righteous, God bearing witness by accepting his gifts; he died, but through his faith he is still speaking. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, took heed and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; by this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness which comes by faith.

The Faith of Abraham
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he looked forward to the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13 These all died in faith, not having received what was promised, but having seen it and greeted it from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son, 18 of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named.” 19 He considered that God was able to raise men even from the dead; hence, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. 20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau. 21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his burial.

The Faith of Moses
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful; and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to share ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He considered abuse suffered for the Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he looked to the reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king; for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the first-born might not touch them.

The Faith of Other Israelite Heroes
29 By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as if on dry land; but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. 31 By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given friendly welcome to the spies.

32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, received promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched raging fire, escaped the edge of the sword, won strength out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and scourging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword; they went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, ill-treated— 38 of whom the world was not worthy—wandering over deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And all these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. rsv

We Christians on earth are surrounded by the Spirits in heaven through their prayers.

Jesus said God is the God of the living, not of the dead.
You have made the mistake of equating "life" with the "condition of the vessel".

A question to ask yourself: Am I righteous? Do I still do sins that are

not mortal/spiritually deadly sins?

If you believe that you are a righteous person but you still do sins that are not mortal sins - you are an imperfect righteous person. 1 John 5:16-17

Examples of not mortal sins: impatience, grumpiness, selfishness concerning small things, yelling at your children, etc.

All sins warrant death.
Fortunately, it is written..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
All my sins warranted death, and I suffered that death when I was crucified with Christ, at my baptism into Christ and into His death. (Rom 6:3-6)
The results?
Spelled out in Rom 6:7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
There is no righteous man who still commits sin.

Phil W · Aug 5, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
If the Children of God did not screw up, they would not have to be forgiven 70 times 7 times , and the Epistles of Corinthians would not have been written, and much more of Scripture would not have been written, which Scripture illustrates the many many mistakes ("screw ups") the Children of God make DAILY, every DAY, for thousands of years.....

If they obey God they will need no forgiveness seventy times. Or even once.
God's seed cannot bring forth evil works.

Being sorry for a sin, does not prevent it happening again, even 70 times a day.

Your "sorrow" is "of the world", and not the "Godly sorrow" which worketh repentance.
2 Cor 7:10 spells it out..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."

Phil W · Aug 5, 2019

nolidad said:
I pray you never have children! But no repentance means to change (meta) mind or thinking(noia)

YOu have been taught wrong that people will never commit sin again. YOu ignore the hundreds of verses (or twist them according to the deception that has overcome you) that says God keeps confoming us to the image of Christ! YOu say we are conformed instantly and if we screw up ever again -it is all over for that person! That is not the Creatror and Redeemer!

You mention the "hundreds of verses", but if you took the admonishions to heart you too would be living without sin.

How about this verse?..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
I've armed myself with the same mind, have suffered with Christ...at my "immersion" into His death, and have ceased from sin.
And I give God the glory and thanksgiving eternally.

Phil W · Aug 5, 2019

nolidad said:
No that it is you twisting my words as you do Scripture!

I do not advocate life without repentance from sin! If instead of committing the sin of presumption about what I believe, you simnply asked me, I preach holiness with a vengeance! But I also know the mercy and grace of God- I just wish you would lear.

You preach failure.

You have HIm as an angry unforgiving God. YOu get to be saved- but one sin and He kicks you out!

He is indeed angry...that men dismiss His Son in favor of doctrines that include disobedience.
One sin is indicative of whose sin one is born of. (1 John 3:9_10)

Yes unbelievers do watch from the stands. We believers we run the race, stumble trip fall and get up dust off acknowledge and move on in the race!
Yes they do! And when they do , they obey God and ackowledge what they did is sin, and God experientially forgives them and keeps cleansing them from sin as Scripture says for believers!

As I said earlier...you preach failure.

Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

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