CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

His student said:

The question remains as to who the "they" are who gather and burn them. Is it God's angels when the Lord returns? Is it the agents of Satan? Is it the people of world in general?

Either way - it clearly isn't the Father.

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zoidar said:

I believe basically every believer would say the same thing. Who would agree they are picking verses out of context?

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Stephen Douglas said:

Why is it that some choose to seek and ask God to be their guide and teacher while others do not?

Doug

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iLearn said:

Well then why He doesn't save everyone?

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zoidar said:

Sorry, but total wrong conclusions! I don't know about your upbringing, but if you had a loving family, were you ever afraid as a child you would leave your family, just because you could? Christ never leaves a Christian. If we love him, our security comes from knowing his love for us.

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Michael Collum said:

I find the different layers of the scripture are for different stages of maturity for the believer, for some, fear is all that is possible, for others, there is love to eclipse it.

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Michael Collum said:

I find the different layers of the scripture are for different stages of maturity for the believer, for some, fear is all that is possible, for others, there is love to eclipse it.

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redleghunter said:

Why the dichotomy? God preserving His saints does not preclude laboring for His Kingdom. That’s actually commanded.

We are God’s workmanship created for good works.

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Hazelelponi said:

Hello. Im going to respond, in the only way I know how. I think we all know scripture am I correct?

We know there are verses of warning, verses telling us to continue to grow, and verses of absolute assurance, and others of condemnation. Side by side we can make scripture appear to be contradictory, we can pick and choose the verses that most agree with our sensibilities or we can figure out how they fit together in perfect harmony.

I chose harmony - just so you know. There is a way this all goes together that leaves no question and no contradiction and no ignorance or setting aside of what we disagree with. Some of it we figure out as we are walking in Christ, but the very first thing we must realize is our own nature, and our desperate need of a Savior. Dead enemies of God is what we all were, prior to coming to Christ. Period. End of story - until God...

For anyone who wants to hear a good preaching and teaching on that is here:

When we are dead in sin Christ comes and gets us out of our condition... and of course this looks different for each of us. Some people come to Christ slow and seamlessly, others have a Damascus Road moment (me), and still others - well - I'm sure there's a third group.

The Bible claims assurance in salvation for His people, and I have that assurance. I have the guarantee of my salvation, the seal of the Holy Spirit and He confirms with my spirit that I belong to HIM..

Yet, what that never does in mean I can live in sin, or become slack. When I need correction I have it, when I need to know and believe without a doubt so I can move the mountains blocking the path I have that, when I need to be reeled in I have that..

In reformed churches that believe in OSAS we hear more about sin than in attendance at non-reformed churches. Which is kind of funny when you think about it, because this easy faith that everyone tells us we have simply doesn't exist. Walk into a reformed church you WILL hear about sin and the need to repent and grow and and learn in Christ.

But none of it matters or makes a difference, if you haven't met the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob first.

My lifestyle was the equivalent of what most people consider practically a saint before I was saved. I spent more of my day praying than most human beings, more time fasting, less time breaking the lists of laws and more time hoping to please the God of this universe only to fall flat and empty handed in recognition that the works of my hands were worthless.... I was still distant from God and couldn't say with honesty that I knew God..

Now, after salvation, I can say I know God to the limit of my ability and He is truly God.. for the first time in my life I am worshiping in Spirit and in Truth and it makes all the difference in the world.

But to get to here you have to desire to know God more than you desire your next breath, you have to be willing to let the whole world see your ignorance, your mistakes, your failures, you have to step out in a faith hoping in the end God will catch you - and when you do I promise you He will!

The Pastor showed us Paul's heart for the lost, willing to give up his very salvation for the lost, and I see myself as a sinner fallen short. A person who lost my first love, and I beg God to forgive me for my sin and lovelesses for my brothers and sisters who are lost and I beg God to give me more of HIS heart that I may do more, give more, be more of what HE desires so that I may Glorify HIS name..

Yet in all this assurance and sorrow for sin, I know that if I end up grabbing too much of this world or harbor some sin in my heart I can lose it all like Judas, and this causes me to pray more, to fast more, to love more to beg God for more of HIS Spirit and His power over sin... because I know where I desire to be standing for all of eternity, and that is before the Throne of God worshiping HIM, feeling HIS peace and love wash over me, as I give back to HIM all my love and worship that HE so richly deserves.

The narrow road which steps out in faith isn't easy, but it is possible through Christ... Gods Holy Spirit might sometimes tell us we are acting like Satan, just like Jesus said to Peter, or He might warn us not to love the things of this world.. but we have the assurance and the faith that these mountains we can move, because HE lives in us and in HIM there is no shame.. that He will keep us in HIS hand like HE kept Paul...

It all works together, all these verses of Scripture work out in our lives perfectly.. We check ourselves at the door, we surrender to HIM daily, consecrate our hearts to HIM morning noon and night.. and then we live..

we live as Christians knowing our Lord and Savior, knowing our sins and our failures, our need and our redemption. We aren't afraid, because our King is with us, in us, surrounding us.. so we live as is pleasing to HIM knowing we are held firmly in HIS Hand.

And if we don't, we were never once saved, and never in HIM at all.

Our actions are never causal to our salvation, Jesus' are. All we do is a result of that in love and its a walk we will walk for the rest of our lives. No one excuses sin... but people do misrepresent our beliefs and actions - to what end is unknown to me.

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LoveGodsWord said:

I can see those who hear His Voice and those who do not.

Thanks for sharing brother.

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Hammster said:

With no context. It’s a simple question. Are you saved by faith alone in Christ alone?

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BNR32FAN said:

The question here is we’re all of the early church teachings incorrect for the first 1500 years of Christianity? The men who were taught specifically by the apostles themselves advocated conditional salvation and this consistently persisted throughout the centuries even until today. Did every single church that the apostles establish somehow turn away from their teachings less than 100 years after the apostles went to be with The Lord? Did every church fail to keep the teachings of the apostles intact? How could this have happened on such a wide and absolute scale with no evidence of dissension or resistance within the Church? Literally thousands of Christians taught by the apostles went from believing in eternal security and salvation by faith without works to conditional salvation with no resistance? Men and women who devoted their life to serving Christ just one day all accepted a false gospel with no resistance? When you really put it into perspective of the implications of saying the apostles taught eternal security and salvation by faith without works this is what your basically saying, that evil prevailed over Jesus’ entire church and distorted the teachings of the church into a false gospel. Jesus said evil would not prevail over His church. Sure Jesus said some will fall away, but He never said all would fall away. I began as a believer of eternal security and salvation by faith without works. I defended these doctrines with fierce passion. Until the day I was presented with John 15. I eagerly set out to refute the position that John 15 taught eternal security and after a week of prayer, intensive study on the scriptures, the Greek words used, early church writings, and countless commentaries that resulted in twisting the context of John 15 out of the context of the definitions provided for the Greek words used or even simply contradicting what the scriptures clearly say, I was forced to re-examine the scriptures that I believed supported the reformed doctrines. Much to my surprise and dismay (at first) I began to see how these scriptures can be interpreted in such a way that they do not contradict eternal security. Still in this discussion no one has been able to explain John 15 in such a way that does not ignore the context of what is clearly stated in favor of supporting reformed theology. It took me almost a month of reexamining the scriptures I believed supported reformed theology to finally conclude that I was wrong. I didn’t want to admit I was wrong. I had been refuting eternal security for years on forums and YouTube. This meant I had to go back and retract everything I had posted and concede to those whom I was debating against. But ya know what, it was more important to teach the truth and swallow my pride than to refuse to accept it to keep from embarrassment. Now I have a more comprehensive understanding of the scriptures that is in line with the early church writings all the way back to the beginning of Christianity. I don’t have to disregard certain scriptures that I don’t understand anymore. Like John 15 for example, or Romans 11:17-24 and so many others that support conditional salvation. I think the problem is too many people are willing to bend the scriptures to fit their beliefs instead of taking the time to examine the Greek definitions and early church writings. I think the reason for this is largely due to the ignorance of the early church history and misconception that Roman Church theology was present in the early church. So many people refute Roman theology and associate it with the teachings of the early church. They are different and most people don’t know that Rome was excommunicated from the Catholic Church in 1054AD which was before any of the controversial actions of the Roman Church. Before the inquisitions, before the abuse of indulgences, and long before the doctrine of purgatory was invented. If people were just open minded and willing to do some research they could find evidence that the Orthodox Church is the apostolic Church of God that Jesus said would always prevail against evil. What sources did I use? Britanica.com, why, because they are a secular organization with an impeccable reputation for presenting the facts. Being a secular organization they are not biased towards either side of the argument. Compare their findings with both Wikipedia and the Orthodox Church and you’ll get the same story of what happened from all three sources. Try doing the same with the Roman explanations and you’ll see discrepancies. Jesus said you can identify people by their actions. Try finding some dirt on the Orthodox Church. I can’t find anything they’ve done in the past to disqualify them. Their actions and their theology lines up with scripture and the early church writings perfectly. Many people will say they don’t accept the early church writings because they’re not scripture. Well that’s because they can’t accept them, their theology is refuted by the early church writings. So they’re forced to disregard every single teaching of the early church in order to hold on to reformed theology that has been rejected by every single church established by the apostles. Trust me when I say it is worth the effort to do the study. I mean we’re talking about the word of God here not some mere college classroom assignment. Understanding God’s word is of the utmost importance.

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Hazelelponi said:

Early church writings dont carry the weight of scripture.. its not on equal footing.

Certainly teachings of the early faith has a place, but in the end scripture itself must be heeded as we are told:

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!"

again, let them be anathema.. this is serious, absolutely serious, and all I see in the romans catholic teachings is a gospel never preached or taught by the Apostles when we read scriptures..

I will go so far as to say I cant even be certain we worship the same God, so far apart are our beliefs (This isnt an accusation, I am just stressing the differences here in the strongest terms possible) and I must conclude that I must follow and obey scripture, and what the Apostles taught, according to the scripture before me.

I find myself as one not alone, but among a great many reformers past and present all seeing the exact same things I do in scripture when we study it carefully and prayerfully.

Who is the more correct we can debate fruitlessly all day long - using scripture because its our common ground.

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Hazelelponi said:

Early church writings dont carry the weight of scripture.. its not on equal footing.

Certainly teachings of the early faith has a place, but in the end scripture itself must be heeded as we are told:

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!"

again, let them be anathema.. this is serious, absolutely serious, and all I see in the romans catholic teachings is a gospel never preached or taught by the Apostles when we read scriptures..

I will go so far as to say I cant even be certain we worship the same God, so far apart are our beliefs (This isnt an accusation, I am just stressing the differences here in the strongest terms possible) and I must conclude that I must follow and obey scripture, and what the Apostles taught, according to the scripture before me.

I find myself as one not alone, but among a great many reformers past and present all seeing the exact same things I do in scripture when we study it carefully and prayerfully.

Who is the more correct we can debate fruitlessly all day long - using scripture because its our common ground.

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