Could the fall of morals from the 1960s to now have been avoided?

VCR-2000 said:

Do you think the relative freefall of morality that started around the 1960s could have been avoided? How in what kind of way?

I also don't believe we should go back to before the 1960s in all ways, but I believe the traditionalists and conservatives have a point sometimes.

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This is going to sound crazy, but I do think music had a lot to do with it. Not saying music was 100% clean before the 50's, but rock and roll seemed to really take off alongside a huge, public shift in morals.

David Wright said:

Society's standards change. Morals do not.

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You're making the same mistake made by many Christians. The word 'moral' is not a specific reference to Christian standards. All societies have moral standards and morality has varied enormously through time and across cultures.

What you are referring to is Christian morality which may or may not have changed over time. Christian morality is just one of thousands of moral codes.

This is the Oxford Dictionary's definition of moral. You'll notice that it doesn't mention Christianity.
OB

Occams Barber said:

Hasty? Not really. I started a discussion on this very topic a few weeks ago.
Christian Privilege

This isn't an atheist issue. We have two moral systems clashing ; one belonging to Christianity and the other owned by the broader society. By society's moral standards Christianity sometimes behaves badly.
OB

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An atheist claiming that Christianity is not oppressed in western democratic society is like a WASP claiming that African-Americans have equal opportunity under the law in the U.S.

And you seem to have morals confused with societal standards. Christians often behave reprehensibly by Biblical standards. Lawmakers sometimes extort and perpetrate incredulous misdeeds. This in no way invalidates the laws they have duly drafted and seen ratified.

Isn't it strange the way we avoid addressing the objections for which we have no answers?

Occams Barber said:

You're making the same mistake made by many Christians. The word 'moral' is not a specific reference to Christian standards. All societies have moral standards and morality has varied enormously through time and across cultures.

What you are referring to is Christian morality which may or may not have changed over time. Christian morality is just one of thousands of moral codes.

This is the Oxford Dictionary's definition of moral. You'll notice that it doesn't mention Christianity.

1. A lesson that can be derived from a story or experience.
2. Standards of behaviour; principles of right and wrong.​

OB

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Clearly, you've mistaken me for someone who recognizes Oxford University as a universal authority on the definition of morality.

VCR-2000 said:

I was saying that there were some things that we lost that turned out to be good for us.

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Like what?

Occams Barber said:

Christian morality is just one of thousands of moral codes.

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If you're trying to pin me down to admitting I reject the plurality of "moral codes" and adhere to the existence of absolute truth then, by all means, I do so acquiesce.

Tinker Grey said:

Well, if the church had any standards, we might use those.

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That's very clever.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

The church ought to allow herself to be judged morally by the standards of the world?

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How about if people in the Body of Christ started operating as the early church did.

Such as making sure everyone in the Body of Christ had every need met.

Such as eliminating ethnic bigotry within the Body of Christ (or at least setting up systems to prevent its practice).

RDKirk said:

How about if people in the Body of Christ started operating as the early church did.

Such as making sure everyone in the Body of Christ had every need met.

Such as eliminating ethnic bigotry within the Body of Christ (or at least setting up systems to prevent its practice).

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Yes, by all means. Then, at least, everyone could see that the church cares very, very much about... the church.

Nithavela said:

Which morals exactly do you mean? The ones where women were suppressed? Were black people were treated as second class citizens?

Don't bother to answer. It's obvious you mean sex. It's always about sex.

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I agree. After all, the homicide rate is half of what it was in 1991, the rate of violent crime is also way down. So, it’s got to be sex, even though the rate of abortions keeps dropping as does the rate of teenage pregnancies and divorces.

VCR-2000 said:

I was saying that there were some things that we lost that turned out to be good for us.

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Responsibility before personal rights?

Gracia Singh said:

This is going to sound crazy, but I do think music had a lot to do with it. Not saying music was 100% clean before the 50's, but rock and roll seemed to really take off alongside a huge, public shift in morals.

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I think the ramped up consumerism in the land of the financial victor after WWII played a major part. Music and other lifestyles was a by-product. The spoils of war have a historical habit of being more destructive than war itself.

"
VCR-2000 said: ↑
I was saying that there were some things that we lost that turned out to be good for us."

Moral Orel said:

Like what?

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Meals of home-made meat, potatoes and veggies in proper proportions

I'm going to have to add to the growing list of posters asking how you think moral standards have fallen and what you think the effects are? From my POV western morality has changed a lot in the last 100 years, and although we still do a lot wrong, it's gotten drastically better for: women, sexual minorities, ethnic minorities, those with physical and mental disabilities, animals and D&D players.

VCR-2000 said:

Do you think the relative freefall of morality that started around the 1960s could have been avoided? How in what kind of way?

I also don't believe we should go back to before the 1960s in all ways, but I believe the traditionalists and conservatives have a point sometimes.

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Interesting claim, what makes you think there has been a freefall of morality? I'm currently reading, "The Better Angels of Our Nature" by Steven Pinker and evidence points to this being the least violent, least oppressive time in human history.

David Wright said:

Yes, by all means. Then, at least, everyone could see that the church cares very, very much about... the church.

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According to scripture, that is what everyone should see.

But as it is, the Body of Christ in America cares enough about nobody to make sure all their needs are met.

RDKirk said:

According to scripture, that is what everyone should see.

But as it is, the Body of Christ in America cares enough about nobody to make sure all their needs are met.

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You might want to do some review. The Bible says a lot more than that about what everyone should see in a Christian.

David Wright said:

You might want to do some review. The Bible says a lot more than that about what everyone should see in a Christian.

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Does it?

RDKirk said:

Does it?

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Are you being facetious?
Yes. It does.
I sense a trap has been laid.

David Wright said:

Are you being facetious?
Yes. It does.
I sense a trap has been laid.

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How could I be the one laying a trap when you were the one who made the first ambiguous response to me?

David Wright said:

Yes, by all means. Then, at least, everyone could see that the church cares very, very much about... the church.

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What did you mean by that?