Is Struggling with sin normal?

renniks said:

I used to go the churches where people claimed to have gotten to the point of sinlessness. I no longer believe it. Even is a person's actions are sinless, no one is 100 percent without sinful thoughts. And in fact, out worse sins are likely ones we are largely unaware of. I often don't recognize my own pride. It's completely possible for example, to be proud of your humility. I think the closer we get to God, the more we realize that we are more sinful than we thought. But, fortunately, the more willing we are to admit it.

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Which is to say nothing of sins of omission.

Christ and His righteousness is the focus of those who seek to know Him, Whom to know is life eternal.

Jags said:

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

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We are the only ones that know sin. So yes, knowledge of the truth is a burden and a blessing.
Blessings

Jags said:

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

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Yes, VERY normal indeed.

We have to keep turning to God every time we fall. Obviously we have to try our hardest not to fall in the first place. Easily said than done!

God is there with outstretched arms every time we fall.

Jags said:

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

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Yes, it's normal.

We aren't miraculously sin-free, as a matter of fact we often find we are sinning in areas we didn't even realize were sin until after we get saved.. so generally speaking, tons if work for us to work on after we are saved.

The Spirit of God seems quite patient since I was saved, and we work on one area of sin or temptation at a time until we have conquered that thing, then move on to the next item on what seems to be quite the long list.. lol

And there are times I find myself going back and having a sinful thought, or lacking in a certain area of my personality.

After we are saved we become works in progress, conforming ever more to the image of God.. becoming the people God wants for us to be.. It doesn't stop until you die..

Oscarr said:

You can talk the talk, and in theory you are correct. Now, what those closest to you need to see is you being able to work out what you are saying, in practice. Talk is cheap, but being able to work it out in practice is much more difficult.

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Listen to what I said, not just look at it.
Seeing you see, and not perceive; and hearing you hear, and not understand;
lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

It would appear as though, you have a lot more milk to drink before you will be able to digest strong meat which belongs to them that are of full age, while you have need that one teach you again and are such as have need of milk.

You persist in looking at things as your Old Man of the Flesh always has.

Oscarr said:

Just one minor breach of God's moral law causes your righteousness to fall below that of the Pharisees, and Jesus said that our righteousness needs to exceed that of the Pharisees, whose observance of God's moral law was far superior to our own.

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My righteousness is, "The Righteousness of God" which does in fact exceed that of the Pharisees, they were looking at the Flesh the same as you are now doing.

2 Cor. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In other words, "We are the Righteousness of God In Christ"

Rom. 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

You say all of the right things, what is it that will not let you believe them?

Your conversation is, God says this, and this and this, then you end by saying "BUT" which then negates everything you have said you so fervently believe.

You always end up back in the Flesh, trying to do it for yourself, rather than accepting what Jesus has already done for you.

Oscarr said:

Just one little slip of impatience, anger, lust (just looking at a woman) causes one to absolutely fail in righteousness. This is because anyone who chooses to live by God's moral law is required to comply with it absolutely without one breach, however minor; otherwise they will be judged by the law they are trying to follow.

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Rom 8:1,2
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus
hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Are you able to provide a verse which speaks of a believer living my the Moral Law, or any verse where the Moral Law is mentioned?

Oscarr said:

We can't have faith in Christ and in our own performance at the same time. This is not justifying faith. Justifying faith is faith in Christ alone and seeing our own performance in holiness as smelling dung in relation to the righteousness of Christ that has been bestowed on us as a free gift.

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You are absolutely correct, I place my Faith in Christ alone.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Heb. 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

JIMINZ said:

Listen to what I said, not just look at it.
Seeing you see, and not perceive; and hearing you hear, and not understand;
lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

It would appear as though, you have a lot more milk to drink before you will be able to digest strong meat which belongs to them that are of full age, while you have need that one teach you again and are such as have need of milk.

You persist in looking at things as your Old Man of the Flesh always has.




My righteousness is, "The Righteousness of God" which does in fact exceed that of the Pharisees, they were looking at the Flesh the same as you are now doing.

2 Cor. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In other words, "We are the Righteousness of God In Christ"

Rom. 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

You say all of the right things, what is it that will not let you believe them?

Your conversation is, God says this, and this and this, then you end by saying "BUT" which then negates everything you have said you so fervently believe.

You always end up back in the Flesh, trying to do it for yourself, rather than accepting what Jesus has already done for you.




Rom 8:1,2
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus
hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Are you able to provide a verse which speaks of a believer living my the Moral Law, or any verse where the Moral Law is mentioned?



You are absolutely correct, I place my Faith in Christ alone.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Heb. 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

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We could be talking at cross purposes, talking about apples and oranges. What you are saying is quite true, but I wonder if it is any help to a person with weak faith who is struggling with his flesh - that you are implying that to be fully accepted by God one has to be sinlessly perfect in day to day behaviour.

If the Scripture you are quoting is being applied to me, then I would say to you that the devil can quote Scripture in the same accusative way, especially as the Scripture you are quoting is out of its normal context. Here is the Scripture with the verse before and after it:
"13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them." (Matthew 11:13-15).

The context is that Jesus was speaking to unconverted Jews who did not have the spiritual discernment to understand what He was teaching them. To apply this Scripture to anyone, you are implying that the person is a Jew, not converted to Christ, blind to the true gospel, and with a hardened heart toward God.

So, how does this Scripture apply to me?

Jags said:

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

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Yes it is and anyone who tells you different is full of hot air

The

I never say struggle because oftentimes that isn’t the case. I’ve chosen behaviors that oppose Him or His will and that’s what I call it. But the more I surrender to Him and choose to live obediently the more I’m willing to make different choices.

Yes, we are at war with our flesh. The flesh wants sin while the Spirit wants to obey Jesus. I got saved 7 years ago and I am still struggling with sin. PRACTICING sin is not normal for a Christian. If you are truly practicing sin without any intention of trying to repent, then you probably are not saved because when you have the Holy Spirit, you don't like sin being in your life despite falling into it often.... but we go from glory to glory, sanctification is a process, not a one time event.

Yes. That struggle is a sign you are born again. The Holy Spirit and your flesh are warring against each other. It is tough but rejoice in the fact that you are His.

"For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me (Romans 7:15-20)."

Jags said:

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

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Let's put it this way, there are a lot of hucksters out there waiting for a sucker that they can 'sell' their latest formula to spiritual victory in three easy steps, or some biblical formula or technique ripped out of Romans and pieced together to custom fit the struggle you are going through.
Don't believe any of the shuck and jive.
Acts 14:22 (KJV) Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Jags said:

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

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I'm afraid you are getting a lot of carnal advice. @JIMINZ is the only one who knows and believes the Word that Jesus was manifested to TAKE AWAY our sin, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5. Many of the posters are quoting Romans 7, a sure sign they don't understand that it describes someone, like the Jews, who were under the law and trying to keep it with a sinful carnal nature. It is chapter 8 that describes a Christian, born again of the Spirit. Read 1 John chapter 3.

Do what Peter said on the Day of Pentecost. Repent. Acknowledge that you are weak and are struggling with sin, and don't want to be sin's slave anymore. If you mean it, then Jesus will baptize you with His Spirit that does not sin, and empower you. That is what it means to be born again of the Spirit.

Jesus said in John 8:34-36 that those who sin are a slave to sin. He came to free us from sin so that instead of a sinner, we are sons and daughters of God.

Of course it is.After all we are only human.

Oscarr said:

We could be talking at cross purposes, talking about apples and oranges. What you are saying is quite true, but I wonder if it is any help to a person with weak faith who is struggling with his flesh - that you are implying that to be fully accepted by God one has to be sinlessly perfect in day to day behaviour.

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That is not what I said, but that might just be what it is your hearing, which are two completely different things.

That is just the point, he shouldn't be weak in the Faith, he should be helped as soon as he becomes a New Born Again Babe in Christ, someone has to know him his new profession of Faith, either Church or others around him, usually a new Christian can't keep his mouth shut, everyone knows.

As far as helping them, sure it would help them to know and understand the things I am saying to you, if the could understand it at the beginning of their walk rather than having to wait for years of study before the Lord through the Holy Spirit leads them in to it, or like yourself, I'm saying things to you that you with your whole heart believe as true, but you are unable come to the point of Understanding (Comprehending) how it is implemented.

It isn't just those weak in the faith, struggling with the flesh.
Everyone struggles with the Flesh and always will, that is because we are living breathing body of flesh beings and will be until the day we die physically.

Paul has said that himself in Rom. 7:1-24 but Paul also gives the summary to all his given resuscitation.

Rom. 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Do you understand what he just said in that verse?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Paul says:
I conclude, I myself will conscientiously ascent with my mind of understanding, knowing the Law is written on my heart to, serve the Law of God.

He then says:
The conclusion of the matter is, I am dead to the Flesh, (The Old Man), (The Inner Being of a Man), (The Inherited Nature from Adam Dwelling in my Flesh), and finally with this (Physical Body of Flesh in which I now live)
This is with what I will serve the LAW OF SIN.

That is exactly why Paul said.

Rom 7:19,20
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

That is the Flesh, but it's with the Understanding, we are dead to the Flesh.

Rom. 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Obeying the lusts is our being a Slave to sin, it's our giving in to the sin, becoming captured by the sin, becoming a slave to the sin.

Rom. 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Making not provision for the Flesh, is our overcoming through Jesus Christ, because we ARE IN HIM and we know He does not sin, we do not contemplate sinning either, if we as Paul do those things we do not, then we.

1 Jn. 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Rom. 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This is not speaking of the Sins that are pats that we have been Forgiven, it's those sins which are not Imputed, Attributed to our account because, what Jesus has done for us, and who we are in Him.

The biggest part of your misunderstanding just what it is I am saying to you is.

You keep hearing things I never said, you believe I am Implying something, or Alluding to something.

I have tried to the best of my ability to give you what the Bible says and not what I say, if there are things where that happens, ask the pertinent question concerning that Point, ask for the needed clarification of that point, but don't discount the body of what I have said because, you believe I have Implied or Alluded to something which does not sound plausible to you.

Understanding first, I do not and never have spoken God, I can give you what He has shown to me personally, you can accept it, or reject it, why you can even ask questions about it, but don't assume what I say is Gospel and it goes directly against what you already believe, I'm saying there are things which I do believe God has opened to me through much study and seeking His Face.

If what I share with you opens up some aspect of your walk which helps you to understand something in a different way and thereby gives you some insight then God be Praised.

I have seen from you, there is a longing to believe what I have said is actually the truth, but you just can't for the life of you wrap your mind around it enough to embrace it, you see the truth in it, the validity of it, but the actual application of it alludes you.

Take it slowly, step by step, study it, question it, seek it out, Ask, Seek, Knock remember, it has been written.

Isa. 28:9,10
9) Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Baby steps, question everything I have written, one piece at a time, seek out the truth, God will open to you in direct proportion what you put into seeking,

Remember, this is the Most important, this is what your really seeking.

Mat 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mat. 13:12
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

I better quit now, or I will write all night please excuse the length.

Be Blessed in toy going.

Oscarr said:

We could be talking at cross purposes, talking about apples and oranges. What you are saying is quite true, but I wonder if it is any help to a person with weak faith who is struggling with his flesh - that you are implying that to be fully accepted by God one has to be sinlessly perfect in day to day behaviour.

If the Scripture you are quoting is being applied to me, then I would say to you that the devil can quote Scripture in the same accusative way, especially as the Scripture you are quoting is out of its normal context. Here is the Scripture with the verse before and after it:
"13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them." (Matthew 11:13-15).

The context is that Jesus was speaking to unconverted Jews who did not have the spiritual discernment to understand what He was teaching them. To apply this Scripture to anyone, you are implying that the person is a Jew, not converted to Christ, blind to the true gospel, and with a hardened heart toward God.

So, how does this Scripture apply to me?

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OSCARR
Please excuse me, I know I sent that verse, but for the life of me I cannot find the post, I know exactly which one you speaking of and let me say.

What I was referencing with that verse is the importance of, (You personally), are just as the Disciples were at the time Jesus spoke those words to them.

You are Saved, now listen to what the Verse is actually saying to you.

I did only use the One Verse, it was intentional.

Mat 13:11
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

I wanted you to understand in the simplest form I could say it, I was clearly stating a fact, I was in no way implying, what you thought.

("To apply this Scripture to anyone, you are implying that the person is a Jew, not converted to Christ, blind to the true gospel, and with a hardened heart toward God.")

If I was, then all I had to do it quote it all.

Here is the entire text in full Context for your understanding.


Mat 13:10-12
10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12) For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Jesus was clearly telling them, everyone outside, does not understand, but you on the inside, those Children of God do, the Kingdom of God is for you.

I am really sorry for the misunderstanding, it was not my intent to accuse.

@Jags Being born again of the Spirit changes our carnal nature to the divine nature with power. Our desires change instantly when we are born again.

2 Peter 1:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

cc: @JIMINZ

JIMINZ said:

OSCARR
Please excuse me, I know I sent that verse, but for the life of me I cannot find the post, I know exactly which one you speaking of and let me say.

What I was referencing with that verse is the importance of, (You personally), are just as the Disciples were at the time Jesus spoke those words to them.

You are Saved, now listen to what the Verse is actually saying to you.

I did only use the One Verse, it was intentional.

Mat 13:11
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

I wanted you to understand in the simplest form I could say it, I was clearly stating a fact, I was in no way implying, what you thought.

("To apply this Scripture to anyone, you are implying that the person is a Jew, not converted to Christ, blind to the true gospel, and with a hardened heart toward God.")

If I was, then all I had to do it quote it all.

Here is the entire text in full Context for your understanding.


Mat 13:10-12
10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12) For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Jesus was clearly telling them, everyone outside, does not understand, but you on the inside, those Children of God do, the Kingdom of God is for you.

I am really sorry for the misunderstanding, it was not my intent to accuse.

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It was your post #26.
I think that we are both correct but looking at it from two different view points.

My view is that accepting that we are nothing but sinners actually sets us free, because although we are weak in ourselves, we have total faith in Christ who is our strength. We don't let sin dominate us because we are totally righteous in Christ, not because we are perfectly following the moral law, but we cannot, and so we need Jesus as our Saviour who has given us the Spirit of life in Him that has set us free from the law of sin and death.

We walk in victory because Christ is our victory. Our flesh is like the fifth columnist who is there in the background sniping at us when it gets a chance; but it cannot win the war, even though it might win a skirmish or two. We also have the enemy of our souls, the devil waiting behind every rock and bush for a chance to snipe at us with temptations. But we have the shield of faith that quenches his fiery darts of anger, lust, doubting, unbelief and fear that he fires at us. We have the breastplate of righteousness (the righteousness of Christ given to us) that when the devil shoots his arrows at our hearts, it bounces off and does us no harm.

I am sure that you will agree that if we were strong in ourselves, we wouldn't need Jesus to be our constant strength and shield. It is the time when we feel most weak against the onslaught of the the enemy and the flesh, that we depend most on Christ's strength. The danger time is when we feel strong and think we can withstand the attacks in our own strength that we fail in our total dependence on Christ and we succumb to temptation. Then that is when we need the intercession of Christ to keep us in the faith, and for the Holy Spirit to help us realise that our strength is not sufficient, and so we restore our total faith in Christ.

Our walk with the Lord is a bit like Hanna Barbera's cartoon about Yakki the duck, the fox, and the bulldog. When the fox tries to get Yakki, who is weak and vulnerable, just as the fox is about to get him, the bulldog suddenly appears and says to Yakki, "You'd better close your itty bitty little eyes. You shouldn't aughta watch this!" And then he beats up to the fox who retreats with his tail between his legs.

When we resist the devil and his temptations, he sees who is standing at the back of us, and it is the sight of Jesus our protector and shield that makes him flee from us. It is like the young woman having to walk through a dangerous part of town (true story) from her meeting at Teen Challenge (Philadelphia) and a gang was waiting to get and rape her. But when they saw her, they ran away. Later on, the head of the gang was converted to Christ in Teen Challenge, and he told the young woman about waiting for her that night, and she asked him why they ran away. He said that the two very large blond guys with her frightened the life out of them. She saw nothing of them.

In an English town, a young lady was walking home through a dangerous part of town after a church Bible study meeting. As she approached the area of danger, the largest, most vicious looking dog appeared out of nowhere and trotted along beside her all the way until she got to her home. Then the dog disappeared, and after many enquiries, no one had ever seen that dog before or since. That was also a true story.

These are just wonderful examples of the Lord being strong for us in our weakness. We are weak in ourselves, but absolute victors in Christ.

Jags said:

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

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If it's not.... then I'm abnormal.

I believe that every Christian struggles with sin everyday...

If they say that they are not... then they struggle with the sin of lying.