So with a change in selection pressures, monkeys could give rise to different humans?

Gottservant · Jul 31, 2019

Re: making the tree good or bad...

...would you accept lesser Evolution now, in favour of more Evolution later?

...can you see that in principle, it is better not to exhaust instinct, in favour of the truly Evolutional?

Bungle_Bear · Jul 31, 2019

Gottservant said:
Are you saying that everything that has become extinct, will never be seen again?

I'm saying that everything that has gone extinct will never be seen again through a natural process. Theoretically I guess that when our ability to manipulate DNA has improved we may be able to bring back an extinct organism.

That's a bold claim: but its one the Bible rejects.

You sure it's not you rejecting it?

Individuals have instinct, and instinct evolves. Your attempt to belittle making appropriate references to example, only points to a weakness in your argument that you control the outcome of the Evolution you undertake. Individuals that are gathered together (into species) are still individuals, I will never stop caring about the individual, no matter what you insult me with.

It's about time Evolution showed some maturity, the world needs us.

Your lack of understanding only leads you to make these bizarre, unsupported and often meaningless assertions. Instinct does not evolve. Evolution does not possess mental or emotional attributes.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Jul 31, 2019

Gottservant said:
Yes but the ones with instinct, evolve the right way.

You don't see Evolution weeding out, that which does not know to evolve the right way?

There is no 'right' way, other than survival. The population has random variations, and the variants that produce the greatest number of viable offspring, whether that's due to behavioural traits ('instinct') or phenotypic traits, will contribute more of their genes to next generation of the population (through their offspring) than those that have fewer viable offspring.

In general, those that have greater reproductive success are those that have some minor advantage that makes them better adapted to their environment than others in the population. Consequently, successful adaptations to the environment will accumulate in the population over successive generations.

Instinct is heritable, even from organ donation (there was a story of someone receiving a liver from someone who ate a lot of McDonald's and the patient receiving the liver inherited the apetite for McDonald's).

Organ transplantation is acquisition, not inheritance. Heritable genetics are not involved.

Whether or not you think my instinct for understanding Evolution is interesting or not...

It appears to be simply mistaken. Evolution is a natural process, no more purposeful than the wind creating sand dunes or water carving out a channel in the rock.

Sparagmos · Jul 31, 2019

Gottservant said:
You know what makes you feel good, and what makes you feel bad - if you have done what you were told, at all (Jesus said "either make the tree good and the fruit good, or make the tree bad and the fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit" - do you think He said that, for no reason at all?).

I think you know to decide one way or the other - or you would not be listening to me now.

In time then, what matters will matter more and what does not will not at all.

You clearly aren’t interested in dialogue. Answer the question directly or please don’t waste my time.

Aman777 · Aug 3, 2019

Bungle_Bear said:
You quote the verse I posted, then ask me how I know he dislikes your dishonesty? Just as a reminder, the verse is Proverbs 12:22. It's in your bible

My point is that Jesus is LORD. Calling me a liar doesn't change the fact that the LORD had forgiven me of my sins which means that I am NOT a liar in His eyes.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Aug 3, 2019

Gottservant said:
Re: making the tree good or bad...

...would you accept lesser Evolution now, in favour of more Evolution later?

...can you see that in principle, it is better not to exhaust instinct, in favour of the truly Evolutional?

Please. Just... please: actually learn about evolution.

Bungle_Bear · Aug 3, 2019

Aman777 said:
My point is that Jesus is LORD. Calling me a liar doesn't change the fact that the LORD had forgiven me of my sins which means that I am NOT a liar in His eyes.

I've heard of lying for Jesus, but I've never seen the claim that if you believe in Jesus lies are no longer lies. Does that work for all sin? Can I murder a man and it's not murder?

Furthermore, the verse explicitly states "The Lord abhors lying lips". It says nothing about being forgiven for lying after the lie has been told. A lie is a lie is a lie, and the Bible says that lying is unacceptable.

JackRT · Aug 3, 2019

Telling an untruth knowing that it is an untruth is a lie. If it is not known to be an untruth it is simply a mistake. However, once the person is informed that it is an untruth any further repetition of the untruth is a lie. We can be forgiven past sins but not future.

Subduction Zone · Aug 3, 2019

Aman777 said:
My point is that Jesus is LORD. Calling me a liar doesn't change the fact that the LORD had forgiven me of my sins which means that I am NOT a liar in His eyes.

That is not true. You are in fact insulting your version of God. Being forgiven for lying only makes you a forgiven liar. You would still be a liar "in His eyes", but you would be forgiven for those lies. They still exist.

Aman777 · Aug 4, 2019

Bungle_Bear said:
I've heard of lying for Jesus, but I've never seen the claim that if you believe in Jesus lies are no longer lies. Does that work for all sin? Can I murder a man and it's not murder?

Jesus said: Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I believe Jesus that I am immortal and destined for Paradise with Him forever. I shall never die. I will leave this Earth but I will NEVER die. God is inside me which means that I have Love in me, so I wouldn't kill anything but like ALL men, I am a liar. Rom 3:4

Bungle_Bear said:
Furthermore, the verse explicitly states "The Lord abhors lying lips". It says nothing about being forgiven for lying after the lie has been told. A lie is a lie is a lie, and the Bible says that lying is unacceptable.

Amen, and 1 little bitty white lie will send an unbeliever to Hell forever. Jesus says:

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Only the perfect can go to Heaven. The perfect God doesn't allow imperfection.

Aman777 · Aug 4, 2019

JackRT said:
Telling an untruth knowing that it is an untruth is a lie. If it is not known to be an untruth it is simply a mistake. However, once the person is informed that it is an untruth any further repetition of the untruth is a lie. We can be forgiven past sins but not future.

UnScriptural. Citation please.

Aman777 · Aug 4, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
That is not true. You are in fact insulting your version of God. Being forgiven for lying only makes you a forgiven liar. You would still be a liar "in His eyes", but you would be forgiven for those lies. They still exist.

So it is with ALL people. Rom 3:4
of flesh....
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Ophiolite · Aug 4, 2019

Bungle_Bear said:
I've heard of lying for Jesus, but I've never seen the claim that if you believe in Jesus lies are no longer lies. Does that work for all sin? Can I murder a man and it's not murder?

Furthermore, the verse explicitly states "The Lord abhors lying lips". It says nothing about being forgiven for lying after the lie has been told. A lie is a lie is a lie, and the Bible says that lying is unacceptable.

JackRT said:
Telling an untruth knowing that it is an untruth is a lie. If it is not known to be an untruth it is simply a mistake. However, once the person is informed that it is an untruth any further repetition of the untruth is a lie. We can be forgiven past sins but not future.

Subduction Zone said:
That is not true. You are in fact insulting your version of God. Being forgiven for lying only makes you a forgiven liar. You would still be a liar "in His eyes", but you would be forgiven for those lies. They still exist.

Very little in Aman777's bizarre theology matches conventional Christianity of any denomination I am familiar with. It is, therefore, hardly surprising that he should have this novel, possibly heretical, view of forgiveness and lying.

Bungle_Bear · Aug 4, 2019

Aman777 said:
Jesus said: Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I believe Jesus that I am immortal and destined for Paradise with Him forever. I shall never die. I will leave this Earth but I will NEVER die. God is inside me which means that I have Love in me, so I wouldn't kill anything but like ALL men, I am a liar. Rom 3:4

Amen, and 1 little bitty white lie will send an unbeliever to Hell forever. Jesus says:

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Only the perfect can go to Heaven. The perfect God doesn't allow imperfection.

I love how you agree with me, but at the same time pretend that your initial claim is, in fact, correct by quoting entirely irrelevant verses from the bible.

Gottservant · Aug 4, 2019

I don't understand how you can just ignore this question:

Either Evolution happens now or it happens later?

Either it happens to a species now or it happens later?

From this you get the rate at which it is happening: which is crucial to studying Evolution at all???

Warden_of_the_Storm · Aug 5, 2019

Gottservant said:
I don't understand how you can just ignore this question:

Either Evolution happens now or it happens later?

Either it happens to a species now or it happens later?

From this you get the rate at which it is happening: which is crucial to studying Evolution at all???

No-one is ignoring your question. We've been telling you that your ideas are completely and utterly wrong.
Please: actually read about what the theory of evolution actually says instead of listening to the voices in your head about it.

Aman777 · Aug 5, 2019

Ophiolite said:
Very little in Aman777's bizarre theology matches conventional Christianity of any denomination I am familiar with. It is, therefore, hardly surprising that he should have this novel, possibly heretical, view of forgiveness and lying.

Can you tell me how many Christians are perfect, while in the flesh? I can. There was only One and His name is Jesus, no matter how many atheists and agnostics agree with me or not. Can you name the Bible believers here who disagree with me?

Aman777 · Aug 5, 2019

Bungle_Bear said:
I love how you agree with me, but at the same time pretend that your initial claim is, in fact, correct by quoting entirely irrelevant verses from the bible.

My method is much better than yours since I show the AGREEMENT of Scripture with science, history, genetics, mathematics and every other discovered Truth of mankind, and is supported by God Himself. I await any support for your view....

Aman777 · Aug 5, 2019

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
No-one is ignoring your question. We've been telling you that your ideas are completely and utterly wrong.
Please: actually read about what the theory of evolution actually says instead of listening to the voices in your head about it.

It doesn't matter since when you corner an evolutionist and get the Truth out of them, it's nothing more than genetic changes within kinds over time in a population. They teach of a THEORY, which is based on the assumptions of the group of scientists of their time, who have been brainwashed by our society since they were born.

NONE of them can explain the unique process of inserting God's superior intelligence into animals. In order to believe their fantasies, you MUST believe that mindless nature, over eons of time, with no direction, mixed with another belief that positive mutations, with no direction, lined up ONE time and it can never be repeated, even in Apes. That's their view of how we changed from Ape to Human.

They took God's Truth of changes within kinds (His and Theirs) and changed the name to the Theory of Evolution. The brainwashing continues with our children, of an un-repeatable process which magically morphed animals into Humans, (only one time). Such twisting should be left to the conspiracy theorists.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Aug 5, 2019

Aman777 said:
It doesn't matter since when you corner an evolutionist and get the Truth out of them, it's nothing more than genetic changes within kinds over time in a population. They teach of a THEORY, which is based on the assumptions of the group of scientists of their time, who have been brainwashed by our society since they were born.

NONE of them can explain the unique process of inserting God's superior intelligence into animals. In order to believe their fantasies, you MUST believe that mindless nature, over eons of time, with no direction, mixed with another belief that positive mutations, with no direction, lined up ONE time and it can never be repeated, even in Apes. That's their view of how we changed from Ape to Human.

They took God's Truth of changes within kinds (His and Theirs) and changed the name to the Theory of Evolution. The brainwashing continues with our children, of an un-repeatable process which magically morphed animals into Humans, (only one time). Such twisting should be left to the conspiracy theorists.

I really do not care what you think or what you think you know. I don't care in the slightest.

So with a change in selection pressures, monkeys could give rise to different humans?

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