The Two Witnesses

Carl Emerson said:

According to John, He will send two witnesses that will perform miraculous signs. This is in Rev:11

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Long as they are not performing in Vegas.

throughfireytrial said:

Many numbers in the Bible are to be taken both literally and have a symbolic meaning as well. I am not sure of which location within the Bible you are referring to. The number 3 is God's purpose and the number 7 is completion or fullness or fullfillment.
Christ was in the grave 3 days according to God's purpose, but do a Biblegateway search for the many usages of 3 for God's purpose. Hebrews 4:1-11 gives a strong indication that 7 was and is and should be taken symbolically as well as Matthew 18:21-22 and Luke 17:4.
I cannot address your question directly until I get your citation.

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I’m just curious is there actual scripture that says what the number 3 and 7 mean? Or is this something people just assume and are adding there own thoughts or interpretation. If it wasn’t explained or clearly said couldn’t they just be reoccurring numbers that weren’t meant to have real significance? I really have no idea. I’m just curious where the certainty comes from about the meanings of these numbers. Thanks for any response.

Maria Billingsley said:

Conversion through the power of the Holy Spirit is all that is needed and that has never gone away. Any witnessing is through the spoken word of the Gospel.

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Seems a somewhat narrow view of a religion based on a book of roughly 3/4 million words. Is it possible to over-simplify the Gospel?

David Wright said:

Is it possible to over-simplify the Gospel?

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No. Although it sounds simple, will of God over will of man is quite complex. It requires us to think with open minds unfiltered by the wisdom of man.

timothyu said:

No. Although it sounds simple, will of God over will of man is quite complex. It requires us to think with open minds unfiltered by the wisdom of man.

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Do you hold that God desires to subdue our will?

Carl Emerson said:

Yes we are but those who believe the gifts have ceased because the Bible is His complete Word and needs no further confirmation with signs and wonders, will dismiss those sent by God to move in the miraculous as frauds.

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I agree Carl this is a problem in some of the churches, but others take it to the other extreme and base their faith on miracles. This is dangerous the anti-Christ will do this to persuade people
2Thess 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

I’m just curious is there actual scripture that says what the number 3 and 7 mean? Or is this something people just assume and are adding there own thoughts or interpretation. If it wasn’t explained or clearly said couldn’t they just be reoccurring numbers that weren’t meant to have real significance? I really have no idea. I’m just curious where the certainty comes from about the meanings of these numbers. Thanks for any response.

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There are two basic Biblical hermeneutic models: Proof-texting and preponderance-of-evidence. This is where we get our modern method of legal interpretation. Neither is foolproof. Together, they are more effective than when used independently or exclusively. The Holy Spirit is essential in interpreting His Word. He is the Great Tie Breaker. Unfortunately, His invocation is neglected widely in both civil and religious concerns of law (Christ Himself did often refer to the Scriptures as "the Law," by the way).

The study of Biblical numerology itself is very strong evidence for the divine inspiration of Scripture. No group of men separated by so many factors could have devised the magnificent harmony of figures contained in the Bible. It is, however, largely dependent on the preponderance-of-evidence method. Off-hand, I cannot bring to mind any specific text that establishes a system of numbers as being divinely-inspired.

David Wright said:

Do you hold that God desires to subdue our will?

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Free will no, but our self serving will which we like to place ahead of God's will, yes.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

David Wright said:

Seems a somewhat narrow view of a religion based on a book of roughly 3/4 million words. Is it possible to over-simplify the Gospel?

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Jesus Christ of Nazareth made it very simple for us.

Maria Billingsley said:

Jesus Christ of Nazareth made it very simple for us.

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Yes, and theologians didn't

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

I’m just curious is there actual scripture that says what the number 3 and 7 mean? Or is this something people just assume and are adding there own thoughts or interpretation. If it wasn’t explained or clearly said couldn’t they just be reoccurring numbers that weren’t meant to have real significance? I really have no idea. I’m just curious where the certainty comes from about the meanings of these numbers. Thanks for any response.

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The number 7 can be backed with the strongest evidence from Scripture as meaning fullness, completion. For instance...
Matthew 18:21-22:
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
Hebrews 4:4-11:
For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

I think you can follow this without explanation, however , if you need some explanation let me know.

The proof of the number three representing God's purpose is just another observation of its usage. The fact that one can't quite explain why Jesus said He'd be in the grave three nights and three days but doesn't seem to quite be, maybe...only maybe...can be explained by what seems a common usage of 3 for purpose.

Carl Emerson said:

According to John, He will send two witnesses that will perform miraculous signs. This is in Rev:11

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I take the two witnesses spiritually. The two witnesses represent the witnessing church till the end. Namely the regenerated Jews and the grafted Gentiles the only one's who can testify to the Gospel. Additionally, much of the literary style is symbolic for example, "fire from their mouth", the word of God. "clothed in sackcloth", preaching the message of repentance, etc.
Blessings

Carl Emerson said:

Great topic but could you start it on a new thread please.

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Merely answering the specific question a bit broadly. No intention of starting a topic.

David Wright said:

There are two basic Biblical hermeneutic models: Proof-texting and preponderance-of-evidence. This is where we get our modern method of legal interpretation. Neither is foolproof. Together, they are more effective than when used independently or exclusively. The Holy Spirit is essential in interpreting His Word. He is the Great Tie Breaker. Unfortunately, His invocation is neglected widely in both civil and religious concerns of law (Christ Himself did often refer to the Scriptures as "the Law," by the way).

The study of Biblical numerology itself is very strong evidence for the divine inspiration of Scripture. No group of men separated by so many factors could have devised the magnificent harmony of figures contained in the Bible. It is, however, largely dependent on the preponderance-of-evidence method. Off-hand, I cannot bring to mind any specific text that establishes a system of numbers as being divinely-inspired.

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One need not rely on these numbers either...their meaning, however can be perceived and that only because as you say we have the in-dwelling Holy Spirit if we are Christians.