When Hate Came To El Paso

GOD Shines Forth! said:

Amateur Hour snark. Don't quit your day job.

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It's your propaganda, you have to own it.

What exactly is "propaganda"? Let's find out:

"Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view." Dictionary.com

Sounds exactly like every left leaning media source and supporter when any gun event happens.

As the OP asked, it's less about the object and more about the motive. This guy was twisted and he would have found a way to inflict harm on people. People blame President Trump for it, but the shooter himself stated in the manifesto he was planning something before Trump, and that the media blaming Trump only further fueled his desire.

Stop fanning the flames of radicals by giving them a platform to push a political agenda (see propaganda above)

ByTheSpirit said:

What exactly is "propaganda"? Let's find out:

"Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view." Dictionary.com

Sounds exactly like every left leaning media source and supporter when any gun event happens.

As the OP asked, it's less about the object and more about the motive. This guy was twisted and he would have found a way to inflict harm on people. People blame President Trump for it, but the shooter himself stated in the manifesto he was planning something before Trump, and that the media blaming Trump only further fueled his desire.

Stop fanning the flames of radicals by giving them a platform to push a political agenda (see propaganda above)

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The propaganda is your notion that any consideration of gun control is part of a wicked left-wing conspiracy to disarm the populace.

It's also very much worth investigating (aside from mere criticism and scorn) of why so many young, white men are so angry and falling for these racial lies all of a sudden. It certainly wasn't always that way, at least not in my lifetime. There have always been random people, but this is becoming a trend and we need to see what is at the heart of it.

I think the blame lies on both sides of the political spectrum for certain. I blame both for innocent deaths.

If a young person grows up hearing his parents and relatives talking about these things every day (reading the news and sharing a very biased analyses at the dinner table for example) it can dig deep down and smolder for years while every thing that seems to confirm what they heard as true feeds the fire.

Finally, some very sadly decide to take it into their own hands as they see inaction in others (an inaction which is in part due to a broader perspective).

At the end of the day, I still say a real relationship with Jesus would prevent anyone from hating others like this. It's very sad... Reading his manifesto (unfortunate it was put online and not just destroyed) makes me fear for those I know who aren't from this country originally. The last thing we need is normal citizens to become emboldened to act on prejudices and take the law into their own hands - modern day lynching.

Messerve said:

No the answer is Jesus and has been all along.

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Try telling a gun advocate here on CF what Jesus said in Matthew 26:52 and see how far that goes.

Messerve said:

I think the blame lies on both sides of the political spectrum for certain. On the liberal side it's no secret that they do want open borders to allow illegal immigrants to freely come here for the sake of more votes for themselves. That's very wrong and foolish. It's their corrupt politics that feeds the hated in people like this man.

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If you believe that crap then you are a part of the very problem you describe.

Speedwell said:

If you believe that crap then you are a part of the very problem you describe.

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Sure... Whatever you say.

Speedwell said:

The propaganda is your notion that any consideration of gun control is part of a wicked left-wing conspiracy to disarm the populace.

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Nice deflection

ByTheSpirit said:

Ok so answer the question, don't deflect. What do you think, or what do you want done, to fix the issue?

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I want it to be harder to get a gun than it is to get a driver's license. I want gun ownership to be registered and tracked. I want gun ownership to be so difficult that it is rare, but still fully legal so the 2nd Amendment whiners won't be able to claim their rights are eliminated.

I want gun owners to pay a SIGNIFICANT tax on their ammunition and gun purchases that will go directly to funding Mental Healthcare Initiatives and victim's family funds.

I want people who own guns to know that they have a VERY BIG RESPONSIBILITY. It is their guns which statistically increases the number of guns available and with more guns means more "bad people" will be able to get ahold of them.

If I'm going to die just going to the theater or church the gun owners are going to be mindful every single day that they have a responsibility for guns in our society.

Messerve said:

Sure... Whatever you say.

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It's disgusting, lying swill like that which may have motivated that kid in Texas to kill twenty people. Doesn't disseminating it make you feel the least bit guilty?

carlv_52 said:

I want it to be harder to get a gun than it is to get a driver's license. I want gun ownership to be registered and tracked. I want gun ownership to be so difficult that it is rare, but still fully legal so the 2nd Amendment whiners won't be able to claim their rights are eliminated.

I want gun owners to pay a SIGNIFICANT tax on their ammunition and gun purchases that will go directly to funding Mental Healthcare Initiatives and victim's family funds.

I want people who own guns to know that they have a VERY BIG RESPONSIBILITY. It is their guns which statistically increases the number of guns available and with more guns means more "bad people" will be able to get ahold of them.

If I'm going to die just going to the theater or church the gun owners are going to be mindful every single day that they have a responsibility for guns in our society.

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So the problem is there are thousands of guns out there and, in the case of Sandy Hook, you don't have to be a gun owner to kill people with a gun. It's enough if a relativs owns one, and then you have access to it even if you have no license and are not tracked by any gun owner system. So it sounds good in theory, but I doubt it would stop anything much.

Then you bring in the problem of hunters and hunting. Should we make hunting more difficult? In certain regions hunting is very necessary to keep deer populations down because, yes, we eliminated their predator back in the day. The reasons made sense, cougar attacks and such, but it means hunting is the only thing to keep deer in check for the most part. Without hunting damage to farms, parks, yards, forests, and collisions with vehicles would skyrocket. It's already bad right now.

I think the idea of banning of automatic guns is the most logical immediate answer. I really don't see any reason they should be legal outside of a military context. But I guess the problem is if our own military went rogue for some reason, citizens would be helpless. Seeing as we don't have their advances technologies, though, we already are...

carlv_52 said:

I want it to be harder to get a gun than it is to get a driver's license. I want gun ownership to be registered and tracked. I want gun ownership to be so difficult that it is rare, but still fully legal so the 2nd Amendment whiners won't be able to claim their rights are eliminated.

I want gun owners to pay a SIGNIFICANT tax on their ammunition and gun purchases that will go directly to funding Mental Healthcare Initiatives and victim's family funds.

I want people who own guns to know that they have a VERY BIG RESPONSIBILITY. It is their guns which statistically increases the number of guns available and with more guns means more "bad people" will be able to get ahold of them.

If I'm going to die just going to the theater or church the gun owners are going to be mindful every single day that they have a responsibility for guns in our society.

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Ok, that's a list to work off. Problem is you are stilllaying the problem at hand on gun owners, plural. Instead of a single gun owner. I have owned several guns for my entire adult life, and not once have I ever even entertained the thought of using said guns on any part of the populace.

As for making guns harder to get, ok, I'm actually not opposed to that. I actually think there is a list of things we should make harder to get:

Guns
Drivers Licenses
Prescription Meds
and such

I actually agree that background checks should be harder for gun purchases.

But the opposite is also true, gun free zones don't work. In the military we are taught to make ourselves a hard target, because soft targets will more than likely get attacked. This guys manifesto even states something similar, that hard targets should be avoided because its too risky.

When was the last time a gun convention got shot up? Just making a point. Schools should have armed security guards. Places of public interest should have a higher number of armed security within a minute or two response time.

But I disagree with the narrative that gun owners are the problem, I even disagree that guns are the problem.

The problem, as the OP started thsi discussion for, is the underlying issue, hatred, racism, etc. This kid had a real problem. For all we know harsher background checks would probably not have prevented this individual from obtaining a gun. Nor would higher taxes, etc.

How do we deal with those issues tbat cause a person to use any tool necessary to inflict harm upon others?

Don't feed into their frenzy. Terrorist crave attention, its why most will claim responsibility for attacks after they happen. They crave legitimacy. When people stop living their lives because some terrorist did something, terrorists win.

Speedwell said:

It's disgusting, lying swill like that which may have motivated that kid in Texas to kill twenty people. Doesn't disseminating it make you feel the least bit guilty?

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Excuse me? What he did was horrific and 100% wrong. I see how politics led to this. That's all I was saying.

You obviously didn't read my whole post. Without Jesus, any political stance can lead to death.

Speedwell said:

It's disgusting, lying swill like that which may have motivated that kid in Texas to kill twenty people. Doesn't disseminating it make you feel the least bit guilty?

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I have cut out the political section of my post. If you took it as support of his manifesto (God forbid...) I certainly don't want anyone else to read it that way.

Messerve said:

I have cut out the political section of my post. If you took it as support of his manifesto (God forbid...) I certainly don't want anyone else to read it that way.

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My concern with that passage was that it was false.

Messerve said:

Without Jesus, any political stance can lead to death.

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I would note that Moses put the choice to mankind much earlier ...

Speedwell said:

My concern with that passage was that it was false.

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I hope the rest of your day is a little better.