Why was the God in the old testament so violent?

It is hard to grasp. I have wrestled with it too.

I guess God was carving a way for His Word. Ridding the utter filthy sin that was in the way of the fleeing nation of Israel?

I am no theologian so will wait for a better explanation.

Bcs90 said:

And now he is completely love/good but violence/killing is bad? I get he doesnt want to kill anyone or get pleasure out of it but we are called to act like Jesus and be of peace only and Jesus is God? To peace that was the only way?
I just dont understand why God alone was not able/willing to forgive people for their sins and not destroy everyone without Jesus having to come and die? Or if he wanted to not just to forgive us but have us change could he had just appeared to everyone like Moses?

I think into things maybe too much for my own good.. I just want to be a simple man but I have so many questions and things I don't understand.

Click to expand...

This sort of thinking stems from a great deal of ignorance of the Old Testament, not to put it too harsh on you brother. If you truly read through it, you see grand displays of God's love, mercy and grace throughout the pages of Holy Writ. You see a very patient, long-suffering, father toward a backsliding, rebellious, whoring nation. God never punishes beyond proper measure, and he never punishes for what did not deserve it. The saying is true, "The Lord is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love" (Psalm 145:8).

What you are probably referring to is his display of wrath and justice toward sin and evil, which was very good. Even in the New Testament there are demonstrations of God's holiness such as the death of Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit.

God in the Old Testament is the same in the New Testament. Nothing changed, and you will see that as you keep reading. Jesus' character is parallel to the way God dealt with men in the Old Testament.

God is both a Loving God AND a Just God. Justice, like fire and electricity, isn't mean. It just looks mean when you are standing on the wrong side of it.

We want justice when someone is committing or has committed a crime against us. The problem is that we are all born with criminal tendencies (by God's standards) and cannot stand in His presence --even if He just wanted to give us a hug (which He does! ).

He knew that was going to be a problem, so He made a Way to clean us up* so that He could love on us without us bursting into flames.

*Read in other languages.

Bcs90 said:

And now he is completely love/good but violence/killing is bad? I get he doesnt want to kill anyone or get pleasure out of it but we are called to act like Jesus and be of peace only and Jesus is God? To peace that was the only way?
I just dont understand why God alone was not able/willing to forgive people for their sins and not destroy everyone without Jesus having to come and die? Or if he wanted to not just to forgive us but have us change could he had just appeared to everyone like Moses?

I think into things maybe too much for my own good.. I just want to be a simple man but I have so many questions and things I don't understand.

Click to expand...

God's Old Testament teachings reined in violence. He commanded that his people not commit the violent acts that their unbelieving neighbors committed, and when they strayed from his ways, they got more violent, not less.

The suffering and death of Jesus wasn't for funsies. We cannot know the depths of what God went through on that occasion. God the Father sent his Son to die for you, me, and the whole world. Jesus died on a cross and took our sin upon himself, before rising again. If there were, when taking into account everything God knows, a better way to do all that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ accomplished, I'm sure he would have taken it. Nothing you or I will experience in this world can compare to that, so I at least can't critique God on his choice.

Also, you bring up Moses - he was not a perfect man after meeting with God. He messed up to the point where he was not allowed to enter Israel. So I don't see any reason to believe that meeting with God the same way would sufficiently change us.

Bcs90 said:

And now he is completely love/good but violence/killing is bad? I get he doesnt want to kill anyone or get pleasure out of it but we are called to act like Jesus and be of peace only and Jesus is God? To peace that was the only way?
I just dont understand why God alone was not able/willing to forgive people for their sins and not destroy everyone without Jesus having to come and die? Or if he wanted to not just to forgive us but have us change could he had just appeared to everyone like Moses?

I think into things maybe too much for my own good.. I just want to be a simple man but I have so many questions and things I don't understand.

Click to expand...

The God we come to know by reading only the OT is not an accurate understanding of Him. Jesus Christ is God incarnate, God among us, God revealed to us. We must know Jesus first. Anything we try to understand in the OT MUST be read through the lens of the Gospels, or we will misunderstand.

Consider this ... that is what the Jewish people had to understand God, and those who were the most well-educated in the OT Scriptures failed to recognize Jesus as God or even as the Messiah.


As to your other question - is God able to forgive us without Jesus becoming incarnate and dying on the cross? YES ... actually He IS able. That's a misunderstanding some theology has because of the way they limit everything to a simple legalistic understanding.

Sin was never God's problem. God doesn't need anything in order to forgive.

Sin is OUR problem. We are the ones who needed Christ to become Incarnate and to die and be resurrected - in order that death itself could be destroyed. Perhaps God could have done that some other way as well ... but it is testimony of His great love for us that He was willing to leave heaven and make Himself a lowly human and suffer and die, all for our sake.

Bcs90 said:

And now he is completely love/good but violence/killing is bad? I get he doesnt want to kill anyone or get pleasure out of it but we are called to act like Jesus and be of peace only and Jesus is God? To peace that was the only way?
I just dont understand why God alone was not able/willing to forgive people for their sins and not destroy everyone without Jesus having to come and die? Or if he wanted to not just to forgive us but have us change could he had just appeared to everyone like Moses?

I think into things maybe too much for my own good.. I just want to be a simple man but I have so many questions and things I don't understand.

Click to expand...

Now we live in a time of mercy, where God offers to forgive all who come to Him in faith.

However, at the end times, God and Christ are going to go ultraviolent. God is going to kill between millions and billions.

You could also consider Hell/Lake of Fire to be God's constant violence against his enemies.

So make no mistake, the violent God of old has not changed or quenched his wrath.

Bcs90 said:

I think into things maybe too much for my own good.. I just want to be a simple man but I have so many questions and things I don't understand.

Click to expand...

Never stop asking questions and living a life of Christian contemplation. We all want a simple life but unsatisfactory answers won't give you long term peace. Spiritual life is a life-long adventure, yay!

Same God. Read Revelation...

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
(Rev 19:11-15)

There are many blood baths there instigated by the "God of love". Same God, both Old and New, it's just that now He is holding back Judgment...but it is coming!

Bcs90 said:

And now he is completely love/good but violence/killing is bad? I get he doesnt want to kill anyone or get pleasure out of it but we are called to act like Jesus and be of peace only and Jesus is God? To peace that was the only way?
I just dont understand why God alone was not able/willing to forgive people for their sins and not destroy everyone without Jesus having to come and die? Or if he wanted to not just to forgive us but have us change could he had just appeared to everyone like Moses?

I think into things maybe too much for my own good.. I just want to be a simple man but I have so many questions and things I don't understand.

Click to expand...

The OP -
Why was the God in the old testament so violent?

The whole of the Bible is one grand story line. Often, however, we find ourselves separating the Old from the New Testament, as if they were two entirely different stories. The separating of the two has subsequently caused two views of God to arise in our minds: “the God of judgment” (Old Testament) and “the God of love” (New Testament).

Similarly, the character and person of God as revealed in the Old Testament cannot be separated from the God of the New. This means that his judgment towards the nations in the Old Testament has something significant to say to us about the grand story line of the entire Bible, meaning that it cannot be divorced from the rest of the Word of God.

We see God’s love and judgment wrapped up together perfectly at the cross. Jesus Christ, the beloved Son of God, absorbs the just wrath of God. The cross is proof that what seems like dead-end judgment actually is the loving purpose of God being magnified forever. Similarly, in the Old Testament, God’s judgment on the nations points to the eventual salvation of his chosen people, the climax of which is Jesus Christ.

The Bible is one continuous story.

Malachi 3

6 “I am the LORD, and I do not change.

The ot god sure did hand out the whoopings

Bcs90 said:

And now he is completely love/good but violence/killing is bad? I get he doesnt want to kill anyone or get pleasure out of it but we are called to act like Jesus and be of peace only and Jesus is God? To peace that was the only way?
I just dont understand why God alone was not able/willing to forgive people for their sins and not destroy everyone without Jesus having to come and die? Or if he wanted to not just to forgive us but have us change could he had just appeared to everyone like Moses?

I think into things maybe too much for my own good.. I just want to be a simple man but I have so many questions and things I don't understand.

Click to expand...

He is God Almighty. He can do whatever He wants. I saw a testimony of an ex-satanist on ytube. He worked hard for satan, doing witchcraft on people, trying to kill some ...etc. But when he asked for a year break from all of that the devil struck him with blindness for a year and his mom had to take care of him. On the other hand, how patient is God with us! We should be very grateful.
It was only until yesterday that I realized that for all the sins I committed in the past, My Lord God did not punish me. He only disciplined me. Also there where many many instances when my life was in danger but God Almighty saved me from every one of them. I may not be very lucky in the worldly sense , but that's okay. This life here is nothing.
Just look back and you will realize how much God has done for you. Just don't grumble, be thankful and just obey Him as much as you can and everything will be fine.

The tribulation is Gods last effort to save mankind.

A Robe dipped in blood, that says a lot. When He makes war the sharp sword that comes out of His mouth is the Word.

All He has to do Is quote the Word and the enemy will be killed.

His eyes a flame of fire.

His eyes are that piercing.

Have you ever looked at some one and they stare you right in the eyes. Imagine Christ with hair white like wool staring you down.


It says in John that He told His disciples that if they knew where He was going they would be glad, cuz He went to the Father.

Many Christians think He went to Hell.

But Paul said He left It up to the Father. Jesus never committed a sin so why would He go to Hell after He died?


That’s the power of the resurrection.


And since when He died that opened the door for Us His Children to make it in to Heaven.

Glory to God!!!

Bcs90 said:

And now he is completely love/good but violence/killing is bad? I get he doesnt want to kill anyone or get pleasure out of it but we are called to act like Jesus and be of peace only and Jesus is God? To peace that was the only way?
I just dont understand why God alone was not able/willing to forgive people for their sins and not destroy everyone without Jesus having to come and die? Or if he wanted to not just to forgive us but have us change could he had just appeared to everyone like Moses?

I think into things maybe too much for my own good.. I just want to be a simple man but I have so many questions and things I don't understand.

Click to expand...

The mind of the LORD is beyond finding out. We don't know for certain why God did what He did. But here is what I think. The bible tells us that the reason why God told Moses to destroy utterly the Canaanites, was due to their customs, or beliefs. The bible tells us these customs included things like "child sacrifice", the Cannanites would sacrifice their children in fire to false gods. God wanted to remove these practices so got the Israelite to invade them. YOu may well ask "why did God just destroy every one, and not save the children, or women". The answer in my opinion is that if he had kept the women alive they would have polluted the Israelites with their beliefs. Seeing the women needed to be removed to prevent the spread of false belief, it was better to also kill the children, otherwise you would have a generation of children who hated Israel. So the answer is it was to remove the horrible belief system that existed in the region, while minimising harm on future generations.

Believers should not question the Old Testament or the New Testament.

A simple message.
All that do not have faith in Christ will go to hell.

M-Bob

Bcs90 said:

And now he is completely love/good but violence/killing is bad? I get he doesnt want to kill anyone or get pleasure out of it but we are called to act like Jesus and be of peace only and Jesus is God? To peace that was the only way?
I just dont understand why God alone was not able/willing to forgive people for their sins and not destroy everyone without Jesus having to come and die? Or if he wanted to not just to forgive us but have us change could he had just appeared to everyone like Moses?

I think into things maybe too much for my own good.. I just want to be a simple man but I have so many questions and things I don't understand.

Click to expand...

God's been patiently working with a stubborn and obstinate and sinful bunch of people since day one, for the ultimate purpose of moving them, us, towards salvation. Either way nothing He does can be inconsistent with love, and we don't know the final destiny of anyone, after their temporary sojourn on this planet. And we also can't always know when the author of any particular OT book, etc, is giving us the human perspective on some event and God's intention in it vs the God's actual purposes and intentions. The NT clears things up on many matters that aren't so clear in the OT.

A great many people have asked that question. I believe that the real answer lies not in the nature, or psychology, of God but rather in the perception of the authors themselves. In the Hebrew Scriptures God was envisioned in much the same way as their experience of their rulers. Those rulers were distant, unknowable, unquestionable, absolute in their decision making with terrible consequences for disobedience. This perception was mitigated as we read through these scriptures. Some of the prophets had a much softer more loving perception of God. Think here of

Micah 6:"With what shall I come before the Lord, And bow myself before the High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, With calves a year old? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, Ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God."

As we move into the Christian Scriptures we encounter a kinder, gentler, more loving perception of God. But Scripture ends with a return to a very negative perception of God.

Earl Doherty wrote "Despite the apologetic efforts of those seeking to rehabilitate this document for the modern mind, it is difficult to see Revelation as anything more than a paroxysm of hate created by a mind bordering on the psychotic. The early church long resisted placing it in the developing canon of inspired writings. John the prophet has cast his spiritual Christ in his own joyless and vengeful image. The voice of this Messiah is his own, ready to punish for every slight, every rejection the prophet has suffered in his missionary work."

God did not change. God still will destroy all unforgiven sinners in the lake of fire at the end.
its only God's mercy that the world is not destroyed already.

The OT seemed to have more visible and immediate judgement, but your looking at it from now, and we are talking about several thousand years worth of events. The people in their own time sometimes questioned why nothing seemed to be happening with God and Israel.
This world is history already, over and out, it is finished and everyone in this world who are of the world share its fate. We look forward to new heavens and new earth where righteousness dwells.

If you are not redeemed from the coming destruction, you will suffer in hell for all eternity.