mass shootings a slightly different question

dogs4thewin

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I started this thread several months back when there were a couple of shootings back to back, but of course that is several pages down by now so I will asks again.

What do you think would happen if mass shootings were not covered by the news ( most are not anyway keep in mind only those that are seen as random.
 
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I started this thread several months back when there were a couple of shootings back to back, but of course that is several pages down by now so I will asks again.

What do you think would happen if mass shootings were not covered by the news ( most are not anyway keep in mind only those that are seen as random.
We would have much larger issues than shootings as it would mean that the first amendment had been repealed.
 
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carlv_52

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I started this thread several months back when there were a couple of shootings back to back, but of course that is several pages down by now so I will asks again.

What do you think would happen if mass shootings were not covered by the news ( most are not anyway keep in mind only those that are seen as random.

Yeah, the answer is to not cover it in the news. Because that's why these things don't happen in other countries with the frequency they do here.
 
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dogs4thewin

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We would have much larger issues than shootings as it would mean that the first amendment had been repealed.
I was wondering though not in terms of them not being able to be covered or even in terms of not being covered on a local level, but more on a national level if people started to realize that a mass shooting would not get you fifteen minutes of fame so to speak if that would help.
 
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wing2000

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I was wondering though not in terms of them not being able to be covered or even in terms of not being covered on a local level, but more on a national level if people started to realize that a mass shooting would not get you fifteen minutes of fame so to speak if that would help.

New Zealand's Jacinda Arden refused to say the shooter's name after the mass shooting in her country. I think that's a more effective way of addressing the "fifteen minutes of fame" concern. Expecting the nation media not to cover a story where multiple people are killed is unrealistic.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Yeah, the answer is to not cover it in the news. Because that's why these things don't happen in other countries with the frequency they do here.
read my reply directly under this to see what I was trying to say. For example, a mass shooting is ( generally) considered to be one in which four or more people are shot), but that does not take into account whether it is say a murder-suicide where the person maybe kills his or her whole family before turning the gun on his or herself or a situation like a robbery where maybe several people are injured or killed in the course of committing the undelying crime) They are all considered mass shootings by most sources, yet all but the purely random ones are only covered locally and you do not see people committing more of those crimes just to get covered in general. I wonder what would happen then once people realized that randomly shooting up places would not get them anything?
 
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dogs4thewin

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New Zealand's Jacinda Arden refused to say the shooter's name after the mass shooting in her country. I think that's a more effective way of addressing the "fifteen minutes of fame" concern. Expecting the nation media not to cover a story where multiple people are killed is unrealistic.
that may work too, but the coverage of name/age and all the other details may or may not give some of these shooters motives. Remember, people love attention and many do not care if it is for a good or a bad reason.
 
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carlv_52

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rI wonder what would happen then once people realized that randomly shooting up places would not get them anything?

I get your point but it feels like another well-meaning effort to address a problem which actually has a real solution...we would just rather try everything else but that solution.

We are alone in the world with this problem. There's a reason. It isn't because Japan won't cover it on the news that they don't have these things with the frequency we do. It isn't because Belgium won't cover it on the news.

We know the answer. We just won't allow ourselves to speak it.
 
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SkyWriting

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Yeah, the answer is to not cover it in the news.

Which of the top 10 countries have you lived in for long?


annual_death_rate_mass_shootingsjpg.jpg
 
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dogs4thewin

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I get your point but it feels like another well-meaning effort to address a problem which actually has a real solution...we would just rather try everything else but that solution.

We are alone in the world with this problem. There's a reason. It isn't because Japan won't cover it on the news that they don't have these things with the frequency we do. It isn't because Belgium won't cover it on the news.

We know the answer. We just won't allow ourselves to speak it.
I will say this about Japan I am pretty sure they have a higher suicide rate than we do ( particularly among teens and young adults ( suicide accounts for roughly 2/3 of firearm deaths. Not saying that our situation is good, but the fact is that among suicide, deaths that are caused by carelessness by the shooter, ( to be addressed by maybe mandatory gun safety classes or even just people being more careful. Deaths related to homicides that could not have probably been stopped anyway because they were either committed during an underlying crime or committed by a person or persons who had a motive to want a PARTICULAR person or persons dead and justified homicides. Take all those out and you are really left with a very small percentage of gun deaths that are honest to goodness random mass shootings. Which would really be the only type of shootings ( or deaths whether) that gun control would really have much of a chance of stopping because everything else is people who are either not being careful, but could otherwise pass a background check or else people who are just dead set on harm firearm or no firearm.
 
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I started this thread several months back when there were a couple of shootings back to back, but of course that is several pages down by now so I will asks again.

What do you think would happen if mass shootings were not covered by the news ( most are not anyway keep in mind only those that are seen as random.

The media coverage definitely plays a part. I think New Zealand's approach was brilliant. Not only did they swiftly move to legislatively address the problem and start the process of limiting would-be terrorists effectiveness through access to firearms, they refused to give the terrorist a platform. They even refused to use his name.
 
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carlv_52

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Which of the top 10 countries have you lived in for long?


annual_death_rate_mass_shootingsjpg.jpg

That's interesting. What is the source of that? Is the window of time selected for a specific reason?

It kinda looks like the 2015 pro-gun rights CPRC graphic that was on Fox News (some of the numbers are different, so maybe the CPRC published a different list?) . The CPRC and John Lott may have found a unique way of defining "mass shootings" and were able to provide numbers based on that in which the US doesn't appear too bad.

Let's look at how the "outliers" work as well. Let's take Norway for instance. In 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 there were ZERO mass shootings in Norway. ZERO. 2011 was Anders Brevik's slaughter.

That's what an OUTLIER does to the data.

If you calculate the typical MEDIAN annual mass shooting deaths per million people between 2009-2015 the US comes out WAAAAY ahead. Between 2009 and 2015 the US CONSISTENTLY had mass shootings. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR.



Tricky tricky.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I definitely believe if the media stopped covering these incidents it would stop being such a huge problem. Or at very least if the media covered all shootings equally, it would help.

But it fits a narrative, a narrative that wants strict gun control, or perhaps even complete gun removal from society (which will NEVER happen). So as long as politicians can score political points on it, the media will continue to cover such incidents with a very slanted POV.
 
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I started this thread several months back when there were a couple of shootings back to back, but of course that is several pages down by now so I will asks again.

What do you think would happen if mass shootings were not covered by the news ( most are not anyway keep in mind only those that are seen as random.

They would get their press via the internet and conspiracy theorists would have a field day with the massive cover up.

And they would be right about it.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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This country will either deal with it's sin of racism or it will continue to face the consequences.

Keep sweeping this under the rug of gun control and mental disorder if you want to.

How do you "fix" racism? Thats the same idea George Bush had of "fixing" terrorism by winning hearts and minds. That really worked
 
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dogs4thewin

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The media coverage definitely plays a part. I think New Zealand's approach was brilliant. Not only did they swiftly move to legislatively address the problem and start the process of limiting would-be terrorists effectiveness through access to firearms, they refused to give the terrorist a platform. They even refused to use his name.
Problem with laws is that the people you have to worry about do not care. I, for example, if you can not tell this am a STRONG second amendment supporter, yet I know that I personally have no business with a gun. I personally have neither the eye sight, nor the motor skills ( as a result of my CP to safely handle one. As such, I am not going to try to obtain one, nor use ones that I am pretty sure are still at our house that belonged to my late father. I do not need laws to tell me that. However, if I meant harm with the firearm or did not care about my or other lives no amount of laws would keep me from finding some way of using either a gun or something else to do damage.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Racism is fixed by everyone who cares making an effort.

I'm glad you are so optimistic, but that's a hard pass and doesn't provide a solid solution.

Are you suggesting bake sales with discounts for other races?

Or hug-a-thons where a multi-racial and multi-ethnic group hold hands and sings kumbaya?

Every just be nicer is not a solution, its a talking point
 
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dogs4thewin

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This country will either deal with it's sin of racism or it will continue to face the consequences.

Keep sweeping this under the rug of gun control and mental disorder if you want to.
Are you supposing that all shootings are racist in nature; because that is just false.
 
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