Sexual abuse within churches

Tom 1 · Aug 4, 2019

Sexual abuse of both children and adults within some churches seems to be alarmingly widespread, and there seem to be plenty of people willing to try and hush it up. Abuse of children within the Catholic church is maybe the most publicised example, but there are comparable cases within, for instance, some Evangelical groups in the US, as here:

Together for the Go$pel

Any ideas on what leads to this? And what makes church leaders think that trying to protect the abusers is a good idea? Even on here I've seen some attempts at justifying sexual abuse, a disturbing argument along the lines that freakish sexual behaviour within the priesthood is a sign that they are 'under spiritual attack' and therefore must be doing 'something right'.

Why should we trust any of the characters involved in covering up this kind of abuse, never mind the people who perpetrate it? It seems like the church, or at least some larger churches, no less than any other organisation where people are permitted to wield a great deal of power and influence without much accountability, is providing a safe haven for sexual deviants, while at the same time pointing an angry finger at anyone outside the church who doesn't subscribe to their agenda.

Quid est Veritas? · Aug 4, 2019

Child sexual abuse in religiously affiliated and secular institutions: a retrospective descriptive analysis of data provided by victims in a government-sponsored reappraisal program in Germany

"The results suggest that child sexual abuse in institutions is attributable to the nature of institutional structures and to societal assumptions about the rights of children more than to the attitudes towards sexuality of a specific religion"

So any human institution which places children under a position of trust, or where authority is placed, is prone to developing sexual abuse. This is as true within churches as without, and the rates are remarkably similar if the institutional nature is. Churches should be better, and some limited data does suggest this, but not markedly so. Humans are prone to sin, and the same safeguards you would place in a school should be in place in a Church. Secular institutions, such as prestigious schools, also try and hide sexual abuse. It is human nature, unfortunately. People fear all good the institution may do, is subsumed in the bad reputation from hopefully limited acts, or the action of one or two unscrupulous individuals - assuming of course it isn't widespread, or the very reason for the facade of the institution, but in which case hiding their malfeasance is a given.

dominic langat · Aug 4, 2019

children sexual abuse can be attributed to irresponsible parents and guardians.
all the same,people should understand GOD'S will in their lives.

SkyWriting · Aug 4, 2019

Tom Farebrother said:
Sexual abuse of both children and adults within some churches seems to be alarmingly widespread, and there seem to be plenty of people willing to try and hush it up. Abuse of children within the Catholic church is maybe the most publicised example, but there are comparable cases within, for instance, some Evangelical groups in the US, as here:

Together for the Go$pel

Any ideas on what leads to this? And what makes church leaders think that trying to protect the abusers is a good idea? Even on here I've seen some attempts at justifying sexual abuse, a disturbing argument along the lines that freakish sexual behaviour within the priesthood is a sign that they are 'under spiritual attack' and therefore must be doing 'something right'.

Why should we trust any of the characters involved in covering up this kind of abuse, never mind the people who perpetrate it? It seems like the church, or at least some larger churches, no less than any other organisation where people are permitted to wield a great deal of power and influence without much accountability, is providing a safe haven for sexual deviants, while at the same time pointing an angry finger at anyone outside the church who doesn't subscribe to their agenda.

I recommend jail time. It's good for reflection and for upgrading the prison population.

Paidiske · Aug 4, 2019

Tom Farebrother said:
Any ideas on what leads to this?

Abuse is about power. Institutions with twisted power dynamics will, inevitably, end up with abuse somewhere.

It is my observation that by and large, churches are very, very bad at handling power.

Redwingfan9 · Aug 4, 2019

The problem is that molesters are almost always sociopaths and sociopaths are drawn to places where they can obtain power. This includes the church. A sociopath will build up a loyal group who react violently against any accusations made against the sociopath who's spell they're under.

Unfortunately this is what leads to a cover up. Believers need to be hyper vigilant about avoiding sociopaths because they create conflict whether they're a molester or something else. Around one out of ten people you meet is a sociopath, they vary in degree. If we as individuals don't allow ourselves to get under their spell, we will be in better position to analyze accusations in accordance with scripture (Deut. 19:15 is crucial) without being effected by the emotional chaos of the sociopath.

Never, ever believe that a pastor, elder or some other very nice person in the church isn't capable of grave sin. As soon as we become respecters of people we set ourselves up for making massive errors in judgment. The flip of course is that we can't assume that every person with a sexual accusation is telling the truth. Both the accused and the accuser have a right to be heard and the facts must be judged according to scripture.

Paidiske · Aug 4, 2019

I'd say it's not up to us to judge the facts or analyse accusations. Pass on the information to the police and relevant authorities and let them do their jobs.

bèlla · Aug 4, 2019

I recall an incident a church member shared a few years ago. It was a small group. They were preparing to record a video and opened the meeting in prayer. When they lifted their heads the equipment was gone.

Oftentimes there’s an overwhelming assumption of goodness and trust in religious settings. Even though you’re surrounded by sinners. Molestation, abuse, theft and other ails are the result of misplaced trust.

Most don’t exercise the same caution they would in a secular environment. They assume everyone is ‘like them’ and they are. That’s the problem.

joshua 1 9 · Aug 4, 2019

Tom Farebrother said:
Any ideas on what leads to this? And what makes church leaders think that trying to protect the abusers is a good idea?

No one is trying to protect the abuser, they are trying to be sensitive to the needs of the abused. Around 20% of children are investigated for abuse. The whole program is designed to be discrete. In fact my father served our community as a pediatrician for over 50 years. I never once saw any of those reports until after he retired and we went in to shred the medical records. If someone was being investigated for ADD or something like that he may leave a report like that sitting on his desk out in the open. My brother was director of the psychology dept at our local children's hospital. He was a little bit more open when it came to talking about child abuse. As a general rule this was not a topic of conversation with my father though. It was just not something people talked about. For us to be hearing about this today it is because people are a little bit more open and talking about the subject more then they use to. Sex in general is a lot more exposed with some of the rulings of the supreme court. 12 year old children today know more about sex then I did when I was 50. Thanks to the liberal court and their lack of responsibility do their job to protect children from predators and abusers. People use to be a lot more protective of the children then what they are today. Now they do not seem to be worried about what the children are exposed to, esp on the internet.

Redwingfan9 · Aug 4, 2019

Paidiske said:
I'd say it's not up to us to judge the facts or analyse accusations. Pass on the information to the police and relevant authorities and let them do their jobs.

I agree go to the cops. That said, church discipline is necessary if the accusations are true and it is up to the elders to investigate.

bèlla · Aug 4, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
No one is trying to protect the abuser, they are trying to be sensitive to the needs of the abused.

Actually, that isn’t true. In the majority of cases across denominational lines leadership has covered up incidents or attempted to silence victims. Much of the uproar about sexual abuse in the church is due to their mishandling and culpability.

joshua 1 9 · Aug 4, 2019

LaBèlla said:
Actually, that isn’t true.

I am talking about the professional people that are trained to investigate abuse. My aunt is a social worker, my father a pediatrician, my brother is a child psychologist. So I know a little bit about their attitude and the approach they take to dealing with issues like this. I am not talking about what the clowns in the church are doing about this. Usually it is up to the social worker to investigate things like this. Although doctors do have a network set up where they can get an evaluation is something is called to their attention.

If you suspect abuse then by your own admission the church is not going to deal with this properly. You have to go to the police, social workers, or medical doctor. This may not serve the needs of someone that has been abused. IT could make it worse for them. What we want to do is deal with the abuser. Esp those who abuse their authority and power. Because as we all know sooner or later it is going to catch up with them. This is why we have a court system in this country to protect people rights and freedoms. Even we have organizations like Jay Sekulow that is ready, willing and able to defend Christians against abuse at no charge to them.

Willie T · Aug 4, 2019

Be very careful in jumping too quickly to involve the police and Social Departments. Many a life (both the adults AND the children) have been unnecessarily ruined when idealistic bulldogs have attacked them.

Paidiske · Aug 4, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
If you suspect abuse then by your own admission the church is not going to deal with this properly. You have to go to the police, social workers, or medical doctor. This may not serve the needs of someone that has been abused. IT could make it worse for them. What we want to do is deal with the abuser. Esp those who abuse their authority and power. Because as we all know sooner or later it is going to catch up with them.

In my experience - and as a member of the clergy I have been involved in a number of situations related to sexual abuse of children - churches are now trying to deal with this "properly." A big part of this is insisting that all allegations be referred to the police.

It is true that those who have been abused might have more control over the process - which is important for their recovery - were we not in a "mandatory reporting" environment; and that is difficult. But we have seen that if we don't make reporting mandatory, abusers are just allowed to continue abusing - sometimes moving locations or churches to do so - and that is completely unacceptable on any level. The only way to "deal with the abuser" in a way which prevents this is to ensure they are dealt with by the legal process.

Willie T said:
Be very careful in jumping too quickly to involve the police and Social Departments. Many a life (both the adults AND the children) have been unnecessarily ruined when idealistic bulldogs have attacked them.

It's now a criminal offence for me not to report to the police. And I think discouraging people from reporting is incredibly dangerous; lives are ruined when people turn a blind eye to abuse.

joshua 1 9 · Aug 4, 2019

Paidiske said:
I have been involved in a number of situations related to sexual abuse of children

There is a women named Judith C. MacNutt. I attended some sessions that she had with her husband around 30 years ago. They believe that inner healing can be slow and gradual over time. I see that even more now then I did back then. I would trust her approach for helping people that have been through any sort of abuse. So they can receive the healing that God has for them.

Willie T · Aug 4, 2019

Paidiske said:
In my experience - and as a member of the clergy I have been involved in a number of situations related to sexual abuse of children - churches are now trying to deal with this "properly." A big part of this is insisting that all allegations be referred to the police.

It is true that those who have been abused might have more control over the process - which is important for their recovery - were we not in a "mandatory reporting" environment; and that is difficult. But we have seen that if we don't make reporting mandatory, abusers are just allowed to continue abusing - sometimes moving locations or churches to do so - and that is completely unacceptable on any level. The only way to "deal with the abuser" in a way which prevents this is to ensure they are dealt with by the legal process.

It's now a criminal offence for me not to report to the police. And I think discouraging people from reporting is incredibly dangerous; lives are ruined when people turn a blind eye to abuse.

Please don't try to change what I said. I said "Be very careful in jumping too quickly to involve the police and Social Departments."

Paidiske · Aug 4, 2019

Willie T said:
Please don't try to change what I said. I said "Be very careful in jumping too quickly to involve the police and Social Departments."

I'm arguing that there is no "too quickly." Once you have observed things which mean you suspect abuse, or someone has made a disclosure, that should go to the police immediately.

Willie T · Aug 4, 2019

Paidiske said:
I'm arguing that there is no "too quickly." Once you have observed things which mean you suspect abuse, or someone has made a disclosure, that should go to the police immediately.

We'll talk of this again if (God forbid) it ever happens to you or someone you care about. In my decades of work in this area I can recall at least a thousand cases where "a concerned party" went off half-cocked, ending up hurting a lot of people. A day or two of checking accusations out won't hurt a thing.

Paidiske · Aug 4, 2019

But I'm not qualified to "check accusations out." Nor would it be appropriate for me to try to do so.

The only appropriate thing for me to do is go straight to the authorities.

I'm sorry, but this is something I've been intimately involved with, and the far greater harm is done by refusing to report.

Willie T · Aug 4, 2019

Paidiske said:
But I'm not qualified to "check accusations out." Nor would it be appropriate for me to try to do so.

The only appropriate thing for me to do is go straight to the authorities.

I'm sorry, but this is something I've been intimately involved with, and the far greater harm is done by refusing to report.

I'll repeat it one more time. Please stop trying to change what I said.

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