Misused Christian beliefs

Abraxos · Aug 3, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
There are certain Christian beliefs that caused a lot of problems and worries for me over the years. Maybe some of these beliefs were completely bogus, and others may have been misused, and of course some of them may have been unpleasant truths.

I thought we might share the beliefs we see as bogus or misused?

Not allowed to eat meat was a big one for me. I like meat. God bless the guy who bought me to Revelation and hunger for the word, but his "no meat policy" was a dealbreaker for me.

I also hate this King James Onlyism as it's very limiting and dogmatic which leads to shallow learning and faulty conclusions.

And the legalistic aspects of conservative fundamentalism (e.g. who you can date, what to wear, what to watch, what to read, have to go to church, etc), it's basically spiritual abuse. I have seen it destroy the faith of many and alienate many more from the body of Christ.

Akita Suggagaki · Aug 3, 2019

Romans 8 said:
I became agnostic and conducted research into how this world is controlled.

What sort of research?

cloudyday2 · Aug 3, 2019

Romans 8 said:
Fortunately, I didn't experience any ill effects from the meditation I did, or at least non that I'm aware of. But I don't need to jump off a cliff to know that if I hit the ground I will die.

After leaving Buddhism due to its empty promises, I became agnostic and conducted research into how this world is controlled. After a few years, I learned #1 that there is an enemy, and #2 how the enemy operates. I learned that Christianity is the only truth, and that ALL other religions are satanic, hence I became a Christian.

There are countless cases of people that have experienced the demonic in their dabbling with Ouija boards, divination, meditation, yoga, New Age, etc. Sometimes the demons' ill intent is obvious as people have "ghostly" or poltergeist experiences. Other times people are told they have "angels" or "spirit guides" which are helping humanity blah blah blah. The truth is that ghosts are demons. We will never see our friends or relatives after they die unless we are dead ourselves. Also, we are not supposed to take part in occult activity which includes all the activities I've already mentioned because they open doorways to the demonic. There are some psychics, mediums, and yogic practitioners on YouTube that have converted to Christianity and gave their testimonies regarding their experiences with this. We don't need to experience everything in life to learn, we can learn from the experience of others. God Bless!

What I see in your posts is a lack of moderation. Having changed spiritual directions more than once already shouldn't you apply some moderation to your Christian beliefs? The Muslims who destroy ancient religious sites because they are not Islamic also lack moderation. The Spanish conquerors of the Americas were just as zealous and destroyed the native "demon-worshiping" books and monuments that would be so helpful to historians today. Moderation is wisdom when we are dealing with opinions such as religion, politics, morality, etc.

Romans 8 · Aug 3, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
What I see in your posts is a lack of moderation. Having changed spiritual directions more than once already shouldn't you apply some moderation to your Christian beliefs? The Muslims who destroy ancient religious sites because they are not Islamic also lack moderation.

I did not change spiritual directions more than once, but only once. There are only two spiritual directions one can take. There are a multitude of faux "spiritual directions" one can presume they are taking but they all fall under one banner. One is of God, and the other of Satan.

Spanish conquerors of the Americas were just as zealous and destroyed the native "demon-worshiping" books and monuments that would be so helpful to historians today.

Helpful in what way? To show the world it's Pagan roots?

Moderation is wisdom when we are dealing with opinions such as religion, politics, morality, etc.

Moderation is wisdom? What does that even mean?

Again, you're a non-believer so what makes you think we're going to agree on much of anything, especially religion? To you religion is an opinion, but Christianity is NOT an opinion, it's Truth. Look at what your leader has you believing now, that your truth is your reality, and his truth is his. Just keep following that line of thinking. Keep believing what the world tells you. I'll simply shake the dust off my boots and continue on.

Akita Suggagaki · Aug 3, 2019

Romans 8 said:
There are only two spiritual directions one can take.

Your black and white view of reality sounds Gnostic to me.

cloudyday2 · Aug 3, 2019

Romans 8 said:
Moderation is wisdom? What does that even mean?

To me, moderation means acknowledging that you might be wrong and that people with differing opinions might be correct and have good reasons for their opinions, etc. Under those circumstances you don't dynamite ancient statues of Buddha simply because you see Buddhism as wrong, and you don't burn Mayan and Aztec books simply because they are not Christian books. BTW, one of the Islamic generals used the books of Alexandria for fuel to heat the city for about a year, because he thought that the only useful book was the Quran. That was not moderation, and it was a tragedy for historians.

Romans 8 said:
Again, you're a non-believer so what makes you think we're going to agree on much of anything, especially religion? To you religion is an opinion, but Christianity is NOT an opinion, it's Truth. Look at what your leader has you believing now, that your truth is your reality, and his truth is his. Just keep following that line of thinking. Keep believing what the world tells you. I'll simply shake the dust off my boots and continue on.

Christianity might be truth, but how can you or I possibly know that with certainty? All we can do is make our best guess. You guess it is true, and I guess it is false.

Romans 8 · Aug 4, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
To me, moderation means acknowledging that you might be wrong and that people with differing opinions might be correct and have good reasons for their opinions, etc. Under those circumstances you don't dynamite ancient statues of Buddha simply because you see Buddhism as wrong, and you don't burn Mayan and Aztec books simply because they are not Christian books. BTW, one of the Islamic generals used the books of Alexandria for fuel to heat the city for about a year, because he thought that the only useful book was the Quran. That was not moderation, and it was a tragedy for historians.

I'm telling people to avoid certain practices, not burn down their temples. Jesus did not come here to play footsies with sinners, Hes came here to cut through strongholds with His sword of Truth.

I used to use the same arguments you use. I assure you, it's you sir that do not understand Truth. You love the world and you justify evil.

Christianity might be truth, but how can you or I possibly know that with certainty? All we can do is make our best guess. You guess it is true, and I guess it is false.

It's not a guess, I know with certainty. Unless you're born again, you cannot understand. It's a process of conversion that changes you from the inside. It's like the wind, you cannot see it, but you can feel it, and even see its results.

John 3:3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

I pray that you become born again and learn the Truth. God Bless.

Romans 8 · Aug 4, 2019

Abraxos said:
Not allowed to eat meat was a big one for me. I like meat. God bless the guy who bought me to Revelation and hunger for the word, but his "no meat policy" was a dealbreaker for me.

No meat? That's not Biblical.

I also hate this King James Onlyism as it's very limiting and dogmatic which leads to shallow learning and faulty conclusions.

Agree.

And the legalistic aspects of conservative fundamentalism (e.g. who you can date, what to wear, what to watch, what to read, have to go to church, etc), it's basically spiritual abuse. I have seen it destroy the faith of many and alienate many more from the body of Christ.

I agree that these kinds of things should not be forced on anyone. However, when one becomes a Christian, the Holy Spirit will automatically change ones taste for worldly things for those of the Spirit. We will no longer wish to dress provocatively (especially women), marry outside of the faith, listen to music which enforces the world/enemy, cuss and swear, drink and smoke, spend countless hours watching TV and movies etc. These things will happen automatically (at a slow pace) when one becomes convicted by the Holy Spirit.
And although worldly people look at this kind of activity with contempt and disdain, these things become natural and desirable to the believer. It's fruit of the Holy Spirit's working inside of a person bringing him towards Christ.

Abraxos · Aug 5, 2019

Romans 8 said:
I agree that these kinds of things should not be forced on anyone. However, when one becomes a Christian, the Holy Spirit will automatically change ones taste for worldly things for those of the Spirit. We will no longer wish to dress provocatively (especially women), marry outside of the faith, listen to music which enforces the world/enemy, cuss and swear, drink and smoke, spend countless hours watching TV and movies etc. These things will happen automatically (at a slow pace) when one becomes convicted by the Holy Spirit.
And although worldly people look at this kind of activity with contempt and disdain, these things become natural and desirable to the believer. It's fruit of the Holy Spirit's working inside of a person bringing him towards Christ.

Wisdom suggests prudence is the better mannerism to bear the fruits of the spirit. Something a few Christians need to work on.

Galatians 5:22-23

ViaCrucis · Aug 5, 2019

St. Paul in his letters addresses the subject of whether it is okay for Christians to eat food that was "sacrificed to idols".

In antiquity food was offered as sacrifice to the gods, not just in the various temples, but including the hearth in the home. It was common among the Greeks to always devote at least a portion of every home offering to Hestia (Roman Vesta) the goddess of hearth, home, and family. So if you were buying from the market or eating a meal at someone's home there was a very good chance that it would have been used in some sort of religious rite to honor the Greco-Roman gods.

Paul does not say, "Never eat food sacrificed to idols", in fact he makes it clear that since Christians don't recognize the divinity of these gods, then it is ultimately meaningless. However, it really comes down to conscience. And so the Apostle carefully balances freedom of conscience, the objective truth that it's just nothing at all, to not judge others and to be charitable.

So when I see someone say "yoga is evil" because western forms of yoga are superficially based on Hindu spiritual practice, it may as well be saying eating a particular cut of meat is evil because it was devoted to Hestia, or some other god.

Ultimately the use of scare-tactics about every little mundane thing serves only to deprive Christians of their freedom of conscience, to lead them away from faith and toward fear-based religion, and frankly usually borders on the blasphemous.

If I have to choose between being afraid of everything because I'm supposed to be scared of the devil hiding behind every rock or living my life trusting and believing in Jesus Christ and His Gospel, then I'm going to choose the latter.

My religion isn't based upon fear, but on Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who has defeated sin, death, hell, and the devil and has called me to a life of faith and love toward my neighbor.

"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of soundness of mind." - 2 Timothy 1:7

-CryptoLutheran

MehGuy · Aug 5, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
There are certain Christian beliefs that caused a lot of problems and worries for me over the years. Maybe some of these beliefs were completely bogus, and others may have been misused, and of course some of them may have been unpleasant truths.

I thought we might share the beliefs we see as bogus or misused?

I think sadomasochistic Christians have caused a lot of problems. As far as my psychological problems from my faith go. Teaching that the world has an extreme hatred for Christians and that a good Christian death is to be tortured and killed.

dlamberth · Aug 5, 2019

Romans 8 said:
And although worldly people look at this kind of activity with contempt and disdain, these things become natural and desirable to the believer. It's fruit of the Holy Spirit's working inside of a person bringing him towards Christ.

It's just me, mind you. But I've often wondered if that kind of activity is more ego driven than anything else. But who am I to say.

MehGuy · Aug 6, 2019

MehGuy said:
I think sadomasochistic Christians have caused a lot of problems. As far as my psychological problems from my faith go. Teaching that the world has an extreme hatred for Christians and that a good Christian death is to be tortured and killed.

Although I don't think the example listed above is really "misusing" Christianity.

Sadomasochistic Christians come in many forms. Some are/were nasty very vile people, and others are/were decent kind people. I would say the sadomasochistic ones who are addicted to feeling guilt and shame and like to also inflict that on others are probably going against what Christ taught.

The sex negative ones, and those sadomasochistic Christians obsessed with purity and denying themselves (and others).. hard to say..

Weird though.. cannot say I was really emotionally impacted by the last two. Many former Christians I have listened to say they were. I guess I liked the feeling of guilt and shame, but it was never really something I dwelled on. There were certain Christians in my community who did, but I tried to stay away from them. As far as sex is concerned, I remember talking to God once and thinking "you know.. I'm gonna ignore that one..".. lol.

MehGuy · Aug 6, 2019

holo said:
I remember believing stuff like this. They also had me believe that KISS was an acronym for Kids In Satan's Service. The box kept getting smaller in the eighties and early nineties.

Anyway, Christianity is the only worldview I know where it's possible to worship demons by accident. Apparently the devil sort of owns certain breathing techniques and poses, so that when you do them, you "open up to spirits" or what have you. It's a belief in magic, really. A deck of cards, a certain drum beat or musical style, souvenirs from India, were in fact magic and could harm you. It was pretty crazy. Basically anything could be "of the devil", and if the devil had it first, it would be ruined forever. When my grandfather was young, a lot of people believed the devil owned the fiddle, and when mom was a girl, they thought the same about drums.

Anyway, it feels GREAT to make up for all the stuff I missed out on as a kid. Finally getting to blast AC/DC without feeling guilty about enjoying it, checking out yoga or whatever and see if it works, not worrying that demons might live in the objects in my house, figuring out how to make judgments for myself instead of checking everything against some arbitrary list, and most importantly, not being scared to death by both God and the devil every waking hour.

I can relate. I grew up in a house where many things were labeled as "evil". Pokémon was evil (that one really bothered me). Pretty much all forms of music was evil. Many video games and film were evil. Even certain Pizza brands. Although at least my parents didn't shelter me. In fact my father thought it was a good thing that I was out in the world hanging around non-Christians. He believed it toughened a Christian up and prepared them to live out in the real world.

I knew some homeschool Christians who had it really rough. So I guess I cannot complain too much.

cloudyday2 · Aug 6, 2019

MehGuy said:
I can relate. I grew up in a house where many things were labeled as "evil". ... Even certain Pizza brands.

LOL

MehGuy · Aug 6, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
LOL

Yeah, my father had some weird views. Although I'll say I respect my father's Christianity. He is probably the best example of Christian love I have ever met. When I tell people about him, they assume he's some judgmental mean spirited person but are surprised when they meet him and find out he's loving and kind.

I can see a sort of logic behind his beliefs. Even if some were far fetched. Like me he is an independent Christian thinker who doesn't really see eye to eye with his Christian peers. Our ideas of Christianity were probably polar opposites though. He never really understood where I got my stances about Christianity.

He's probably the reason I never had any respect for pastors or those high up the Christian hierarchy, lol. Just make my own path.

JackRT · Aug 6, 2019

holo said:
I remember believing stuff like this. They also had me believe that KISS was an acronym for Kids In Satan's Service. The box kept getting smaller in the eighties and early nineties.

Anyway, Christianity is the only worldview I know where it's possible to worship demons by accident. Apparently the devil sort of owns certain breathing techniques and poses, so that when you do them, you "open up to spirits" or what have you. It's a belief in magic, really. A deck of cards, a certain drum beat or musical style, souvenirs from India, were in fact magic and could harm you. It was pretty crazy. Basically anything could be "of the devil", and if the devil had it first, it would be ruined forever. When my grandfather was young, a lot of people believed the devil owned the fiddle, and when mom was a girl, they thought the same about drums.
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works, not worrying that demons might live in the objects in my house, figuring out how to make judgments for myself instead of checking everything against some arbitrary list, and most importantly, not being scared to death by both God and the devil every waking hour.

One of my favorite accusations was that the "peace symbol" was demonic because of it's vague resemblance to an inverted cross. Actually it is a combination of the two semaphore signals for N and D and refers to the campaign for nuclear disarmament. Even now, decades later, some naïve Christians still repeat the lie.

Misused Christian beliefs

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