CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

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BNR32FAN

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All of them did initially.

And all of them fell to false teaching in less than 100 years after the apostles died? Where was Jesus’ church that preached the “correct gospel” before 1500AD? Do you have any evidence of it outside of the scriptures? I’m sure you recall what Jesus said in Matthew 16:18? The gates of hell will not prevail against His church. So where was His church for the first 1500 years? Was it hiding behind the scene not bearing any fruit at all, or was it the same place it had always been? How is it that all of the apostolic churches within the first 100 years would adopt a foreign false gospel without any sign of resistance? Did evil prevail over all of His Church the first 1500 years?
 
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BNR32FAN

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I just go by what scripture teaches. I used to be Arminian until I was told to read scripture in context. That changed everything. That’s why you can’t start with John 15 and get an accurate theology.

I don’t understand, do you believe I haven’t read John 1-14 yet? Or must I quote John 1-14 before quoting John 15? There’s not a lot of strength in your argument my friend. You’ve quoted John 6 and I have proven my point of how you are misinterpreting it and surely you must admit that the explanation I gave for John 6:39-40 is in fact a valid point. So what makes you think I’m wrong? Because Martin Luther said so? A guy that has been refuted by church writings for over a thousand years and no Christian church in all of the existence of Christianity has agreed with? He taught people the wrong way to interpret scripture. You have every opportunity to present your case regarding John 15:1-10 right now. Please show me how I am misinterpreting John 15. Are you going to say that those who Jesus said that are in Christ are not really in Christ? Will you say that those who don’t abide were never truly in Christ to begin with? Those arguments are ignoring what Jesus actually said. So I hope you have something better to present in your interpretation.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yes. Jesus delivers His people from their sin by giving them the strength to persevere. Paul endured to the end because He was enables to do all things through Christ.

Then no one can fail to abide in Christ like Jesus said they absolutely can in John 15:6. No one can be broken off of the olive tree like Paul said in Romans 11:17-24. It all sounds really nice but it isn’t that fact of what the scriptures teach. How can anyone fail to abide in Christ if they were never in Christ to begin with? How can anyone who is truly in Christ fail to abide if they are predestined to persevere? What you said does not match what Jesus said in John 15.
 
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Hammster

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I think that statement needs to be backed up with some proof.
Well, there’s the New Testament. What else to you need?
 
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Hammster

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And all of them fell to false teaching in less than 100 years after the apostles died? Where was Jesus’ church that preached the “correct gospel” before 1500AD? Do you have any evidence of it outside of the scriptures? I’m sure you recall what Jesus said in Matthew 16:18? The gates of hell will not prevail against His church. So where was His church for the first 1500 years? Was it hiding behind the scene not bearing any fruit at all, or was it the same place it had always been? How is it that all of the apostolic churches within the first 100 years would adopt a foreign false gospel without any sign of resistance? Did evil prevail over all of His Church the first 1500 years?
If you think it started in the 1500s, then you need to do some research. I’m not doing the work for you.
 
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Hammster

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I don’t understand, do you believe I haven’t read John 1-14 yet? Or must I quote John 1-14 before quoting John 15? There’s not a lot of strength in your argument my friend. You’ve quoted John 6 and I have proven my point of how you are misinterpreting it and surely you must admit that the explanation I gave for John 6:39-40 is in fact a valid point. So what makes you think I’m wrong? Because Martin Luther said so? A guy that has been refuted by church writings for over a thousand years and no Christian church in all of the existence of Christianity has agreed with? He taught people the wrong way to interpret scripture. You have every opportunity to present your case regarding John 15:1-10 right now. Please show me how I am misinterpreting John 15. Are you going to say that those who Jesus said that are in Christ are not really in Christ? Will you say that those who don’t abide were never truly in Christ to begin with? Those arguments are ignoring what Jesus actually said. So I hope you have something better to present in your interpretation.
I quoted more than John 6.
 
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redleghunter

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Not losing those who hear, follow and cometh I’m presuming, and all stated in the present tense. And I showed where it is God’s desire that He should lose none in John 6:39-40. The same word used in 1 Timothy 2:4. Another important point to consider is what did the early church teach? Where is there any evidence of reformed theology in early church writings, preferably before the 16th century. There is none. So did all of the churches established by the apostles have it wrong until John Calvin and Martin Luther came along over 1500 years later?
Don’t know how much of the ECFs you studied. But there is evidence the doctrines of Grace in their writings.
 
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redleghunter

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Ahhh, I think your avoiding the question friend. He doesn’t save all sinners. Why, because some choose not to repent and come into the light. They don’t want their sins exposed, they prefer their sin over serving God. So saying that Jesus is the Savior of sinners is true but is He the Savior of the unrepentant sinner? No He is not.
Many are called (the Gospel), few are chosen.
 
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redleghunter

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He also said this

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ 2:12 NASB

Notice how Paul includes even himself as being capable of denying Christ and Christ denying him. This would be an indication of Paul’s stance on eternal security.
You quoted only 25% of the maxims Paul taught Timothy. These were logical statements of fact based on what Jesus taught Paul. It was not a fortune cookie.
 
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zoidar

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Well, there’s the New Testament. What else to you need?

Writings of the Early Church of course. If there is no mentioning of eternal security among the first Christians, wouldn't it be wise to reconsider other doctrines?
 
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redleghunter

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Well I was paraphrasing. He said we must abide in John 15:6 and He said we must endure in Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, Matthew 10:22.
Jesus also “wept”. Where does that fit in with your point?
 
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redleghunter

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Writings of the Early Church of course. If there is no mentioning of eternal security among the first Christians, wouldn't it be wise to reconsider other doctrines?
Eternal security is a doctrinal term. Every passage and discourse from the NT @Hammster posted teaches eternal security.
 
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royal priest

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Then no one can fail to abide in Christ like Jesus said they absolutely can in John 15:6. No one can be broken off of the olive tree like Paul said in Romans 11:17-24. It all sounds really nice but it isn’t that fact of what the scriptures teach. How can anyone fail to abide in Christ if they were never in Christ to begin with? How can anyone who is truly in Christ fail to abide if they are predestined to persevere? What you said does not match what Jesus said in John 15.
I already answered those questions.
 
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CAN YOU LOSE SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Let's look at the scriptures. Salvation is condtional on...

FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4, REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 and CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 in the NEW COVENANT, are all requirements for the hope of salvation. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13.

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT, SIN is the transgression of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and through the LAW we have the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11. No one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have by God's GRACE repented of their SINS and CONFESSED them and by FAITH Accepted the FREE GIFT of God's SALVATION *ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 1 JOHN 1:9; EPHESIANS 2:13. According to God's WORD it is only those who are CONINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN that are "UNDER THE LAW" because they stand guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19 and do not know God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2;1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

ARE WE IN A SAVED STATE WHILE CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state before God and can lose their salvation unless they REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.
* HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10; GALATIANS 5:19-21; EPHESIANS 5:6; COLOSSIANS 3:6; REVELATION 21:7-8; TITUS 2:11-12

There are God's Word showing that we can have the assurance of salvation today as long as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word always in the "present tense" (now) and is why it is written we have the hope of eternal life now as we believe and follow God's Word...

TITUS 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

COLOSSIANS 1:22-23 [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

However, it is only those who ENDURE temptation to the END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word that receive eternal life.....

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

JAMES 1:12 [12], Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

God's Word is full of warnings not to depart the faith and all these things are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come.

2 PETER 3:9 [9], The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

What are your thoughts?

May God bless you as you seek him and continue in His Word.

I just thought I would chime in on this. We are saved by God's grace for Christ sake through faith. Good works, the fruits of repentance, follow saving faith, but are not part of our justification before God.

As far far as our sin goes, you are correct, people must seek forgiveness, and amend there lives.

People will daily fall into intentional sin, often the same sin they stumbled over yesterday, and the day before that. That is why we daily lay out son at the cross, and our merciful God forgives us.

Christ Jesus paid our debt for our sin, so our sin is no longer accounted to us, it was drowned by the blood of the Lamb. Although, we should not have a cavalier attitude about our sin, and we should strive to live out faith every day.

We all sin in our thoughts, words, desires, and deeds. If sin keeps people out of heaven, then heaven will be empty.

But our sin has been paid for, so, we are freely forgiven.
 
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