Misused Christian beliefs

cloudyday2 said:

I suppose in fairness to the Christians who encouraged you to abstain from AC/DC, it seems that music can affect a person's state of mind, and the state of mind created by AC/DC is not particularly spiritual. Of course some contemporary Christian music isn't particularly spiritual either.

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So true. Much of the top Christian hits today are a parody of the prosperity gospel or promoting self gratification and self worship.

Romans 8 said:

When one becomes a Christian he often recognizes the things that are of God and also the things of the world (Satan).

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I disagree. There are lots of examples of people becoming Christians and learning that all sorts of things are "of God". Just look at one of the denominations you don't agree with. SDA, prosperity gospel, whether or not one should pray loudly in tongues etc etc.

Romans 8 said:

Let's take ACDC for example. It's fairly obvious the band is Satanic.

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No, it's just that some people take them way too seriously. But maybe you mean that anything that is not explicitly Christian is satanic by definition?

Romans 8 said:

The acronym stands for anti Christ devils child.

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According to whom?

Romans 8 said:

The lyrics are chalk full of Satanic references.

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Example?

Romans 8 said:

And the music itself is aggressive and excites the brain.

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I don't see what's wrong with that.

Romans 8 said:

Jesus said; If. anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. It's a litmus test.

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Is enjoying secular music "loving the world"?

Romans 8 said:

I've read loads of books on meditation. I studied Tibetan Buddhism for two years. Trust me on this, emptiness meditation is exactly how it sounds. In the Nygma tradition they call it rigpa, which is the length of time you have no thoughts (at all) while you meditate. The goal is to increase this rigpa until one can go for minutes or as long as possible. What do you think can happen when one creates a vacuum in their head? It leaves a place to be filled by something or someone.

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Do you think that unless you're actively filling your consciousness with thoughts, demons are free to occupy it? Is that a biblical idea?

holo said:

Do you think that unless you're actively filling your consciousness with thoughts, demons are free to occupy it? Is that a biblical idea?

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No, but it is certainly a misused belief among some Christians. If it were true we would be vulnerable every time we fall asleep. One would need to live a life of fear if they cannot even be at rest in their own mind.

cloudyday2 said:

There are certain Christian beliefs that caused a lot of problems and worries for me over the years. Maybe some of these beliefs were completely bogus, and others may have been misused, and of course some of them may have been unpleasant truths.

I thought we might share the beliefs we see as bogus or misused?

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One thing I've never understood is 'Jesus died for our sins'
First, this was written after Jesus died and ascended, he never said that himself, someone else did and to me it doesn't make any sense. Logically, I'm pretty sure he died to show what a human is capable of first hand while making the bible famous simutaneously. Elijah also ascended which is frequently ignored, but its a major major thing, the first and one of the only recorded normal human ascensions. The only person in the bible that successfully followed his teachings.

John 8:51

cloudyday2 said:

Yep, and when a person like me loses confidence in the gospel narratives then there is no way to be certain about the motives of Jesus. The Romans apparently believed that Jesus intended to lead a messianic rebellion, and that is why the charges said "king of the Jews" (i.e. Messiah). Historians have identified certain sayings of Jesus that seem more authentic than others, but they aren't unanimous. For me it is a riddle. The only solution would be to encounter Jesus for myself if he is some sort of divine entity and learn things that way. Unfortunately there may be spirits masquerading as Jesus either benevolently or maliciously, and there is definitely my own imagination to deceive me.

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If you're serious about learning read my other posts.

proverbs 20:15

cloudyday2 said:

Any particular thread? I found these in your recent postings:
Is there proof God exist?
This is not to be argued

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No, everything I wrote should be somewhat accurate.

Romans 8 said:

I've read loads of books on meditation. I studied Tibetan Buddhism for two years. Trust me on this, emptiness meditation is exactly how it sounds. In the Nygma tradition they call it rigpa, which is the length of time you have no thoughts (at all) while you meditate. The goal is to increase this rigpa until one can go for minutes or as long as possible. What do you think can happen when one creates a vacuum in their head? It leaves a place to be filled by something or someone.

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I'm wondering if you actually practiced meditation during those two years and if so what happen to trip you over the edge to make you think that demons can enter? And what kinds of demons are you talking about?

cloudyday2 said:

And, my inspiration for creating this thread was my realization that Christianity could be a lot more marketable in modern society if certain doctrines were gone.

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I sure hope we will get to that in the near future. Whether or not to exercise, stretch, and so on is actually not a Christian doctrine.

AservantofGodandthelordJC said:

One thing I've never understood is 'Jesus died for our sins'

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If you’re looking for Jesus’ own idea, you have to decide how much you trust the Gospels. Throughout the latter part of his ministry, he seems to expect to die. There’s no strong theology associated with it, but a kind of general understanding that being true to his calling will inevitably cause him to be killed. The very lack of a traditional doctrinal explanation gives support support to the accuracy of this.

Interestingly, Calvin’s treatment of the atonement starts with this. You can see it in C S Lewis’ novel “That Hideous Strength,” where Mark first starts to understand Christianity, as the straight collides with the broken world.

The most explicit explanation he gives is in the words of institution at the Last Supper. These are duplicated in 1 Cor. (This multiple attestation says that the words are very early.) He says “this is my blood of the new covenant.” Most interpreters think the new covenant is a reference to Jer 31:31, where God makes a new covenant, writing the Law into our hearts. This is consistent with Jesus’ whole message, which deemphasizes the Law and emphasizes basing our lives on love of God and neighbor. Blood of the covenant is, of course, a reference to Exodus 24:8. That suggests that Jesus saw his death as in some sense a covenant sacrifice, intended to create a new beginning.

Jesus was concerned throughout his ministry with the future of his people. He foresaw disaster if they couldn’t overcome their belligerence and turn to forgiveness. He saw himself as God’s agent in establishing God’s rule, but also I think as his people’s representative. Given Jewish backgrounds of redemptive death, I think it’s reasonable to suggest that he saw his death as, in part, repentance on behalf of his people, and an attempt to turn them away from the path that eventually led to the disaster of 70 AD.

I don’t accept the typical Christian view that God hates sin so much and we're such terrible sinners that someone has to pay, even if it’s an innocent victim. I think God can and does forgive. Hence I see Jesus’ death, first, as a consequence of loyalty to his mission, and second, as a attempt to change people. I think in Rom 6 Paul gives an interpretation that is his version of this, though with theological developments beyond Jesus' own words.

cloudyday2 said:

And, my inspiration for creating this thread was my realization that Christianity could be a lot more marketable in modern society if certain doctrines were gone. Of course that doesn't mean those doctrines SHOULD be gone - maybe they are essential unpleasant truths. But I have a suspicion that some of these doctrines that turn people away from Christianity are being misused.

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I don’t think you can create a worthwhile vision by subtraction. You can’t take a religion whose major attraction is saving people from hell, remove the idea that Jesus died to save us from hell, and have much that’s worthwhile.

I think you have to be more radical, to look at what Jesus was actually trying to do. Whether even that will work is questionable though. Once you start using rational tools to reconstruct the religion, you run into the problem that the people who are most sympathetic to this find it difficult to believe in a God at all, whatever doctrines you propose.

That Jesus was born on December 25 (no one knows Jesus’ birthday, probably nearer summer.)
That there were three wise men. (At least three gifts, at least two wise men)
Three kings at Christmas. (Wise men, not Kings)
Shepherds and wise men all together at the nativity in Bethlehem. (Wise men were probably a couple years later)

By retaining all this Christian “baggage” we dilute the truth we believe and communicate to others.

dlamberth said:

I'm wondering if you actually practiced meditation during those two years and if so what happen to trip you over the edge to make you think that demons can enter? And what kinds of demons are you talking about?

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I was a diligent student of Buddhism. I read numerous books on meditation and attended many retreats. Rinpoches would come from Tibet and impart initiations and lead meditations and visualizations. It's all witchcraft. It's praying to demons and the demonic. I wouldn't be surprised if I have a demon or two hanging around me still as a result of my participation.

These meditations are designed to put one in touch with the demonic. In the tradition of Tibetan Buddhism, the temples are chalk full of tankas (paintings) of the demons they worship. Very similar to Hinduism. These meditations combine visualizations, repeating mantras, and "emptying" the mind.

All of the New Age meditations today are derived from these eastern religions. The Beatles among others helped popularize this activity in the 60s. Today Oprah Winfrey is a leader in this movement having guests on her show such as Elkhart Tolle, Wayne Dyer, Ram Dass, etc. These people practise Satanic witchcraft. You can listen to Oprah's confession of how she channels entities while she worships nature (pagan worship of creation, not creator). They think it's the universe, their spirit guides, angels, or whatever but it's demons.

hedrick said:

Jesus was concerned throughout his ministry with the future of his people. He foresaw disaster if they couldn’t overcome their belligerence and turn to forgiveness. He saw himself as God’s agent in establishing God’s rule, but also I think as his people’s representative. Given Jewish backgrounds of redemptive death, I think it’s reasonable to suggest that he saw his death as, in part, repentance on behalf of his people, and an attempt to turn them away from the path that eventually led to the disaster of 70 AD.

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You can make a good case that we're in a closely analogous situation today, both within the US and internationally. Unless we can change the way we deal with people who are different or even our enemies, we are headed to a modern equivalent of 70, except this time with nuclear weapons.

Unfortunately many Christians are part of the problem, not the solution.

Romans 8 said:

I was a diligent student of Buddhism. I read numerous books on meditation and attended many retreats. Rinpoches would come from Tibet and impart initiations and lead meditations and visualizations. It's all witchcraft. It's praying to demons and the demonic. I wouldn't be surprised if I have a demon or two hanging around me still as a result of my participation.

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So if you were that involved into Buddhism, what happened to trip out over the edge to where your now saying that it's all witchcraft and that it's all demonic?

dlamberth said:

So if you were that involved into Buddhism, what happened to trip out over the edge to where your now saying that it's all witchcraft and that it's all demonic?

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Fortunately, I didn't experience any ill effects from the meditation I did, or at least non that I'm aware of. But I don't need to jump off a cliff to know that if I hit the ground I will die.

After leaving Buddhism due to its empty promises, I became agnostic and conducted research into how this world is controlled. After a few years, I learned #1 that there is an enemy, and #2 how the enemy operates. I learned that Christianity is the only truth, and that ALL other religions are satanic, hence I became a Christian.

There are countless cases of people that have experienced the demonic in their dabbling with Ouija boards, divination, meditation, yoga, New Age, etc. Sometimes the demons' ill intent is obvious as people have "ghostly" or poltergeist experiences. Other times people are told they have "angels" or "spirit guides" which are helping humanity blah blah blah. The truth is that ghosts are demons. We will never see our friends or relatives after they die unless we are dead ourselves. Also, we are not supposed to take part in occult activity which includes all the activities I've already mentioned because they open doorways to the demonic. There are some psychics, mediums, and yogic practitioners on YouTube that have converted to Christianity and gave their testimonies regarding their experiences with this. We don't need to experience everything in life to learn, we can learn from the experience of others. God Bless!

cloudyday2 said:

Another belief that seems misused is the idea that anything or anybody outside Christianity is potentially dangerous. For example, some Christians fear the practice of meditation, because it so important in Buddhism.

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Indeed. Right Meditation, in the early suttas, is simply defined as the practice of concentration on any subject to gain skillfulness.

For example, an individual who focuses on learning his musical instrument is engaged in focused concentration aka meditation, and it results in greater skillfulness. Another individual who "plays" without focused concentration does not gain greater skillfulness in his hobby, because he is not attentive to where he is failing and where he needs to improve or how to improve.