CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

LoveGodsWord · Aug 2, 2019

OzSpen said:
royal priest,

This is what happens when you try to obtain the meaning of retaining or losing salvation, based on the English translation.

The Greek of John 6:40 (transliterated) states: gar houtos eimi ho thelēma ho egō patēr, hina pas ho theōreō ho hyios kai pisteuō eis autos echō aiōnios zōē kai egō anistēmi autos en ho eschatos hēmera.

Literally, without any exegesis of any of the words, grammar and syntax, the translation is:

"For this is the will of my Father, that anyone who knows/comes to a knowledge of the Son and believes in him has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day".

Note these verbs:

'is' = continuous action of the present tense, i.e. continues to be.

'knows/comes to a knowledge' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to know. The Pulpit Commentary on this verse comments, 'beholdeth' = knows, as meaning 'steadily and continuously contemplates'. This is not a once off knowledge of Jesus and then he's forgotten about. It's a steady contemplative knowledge of Jesus. Young's Literal Translation comes closest to conveying the continuous action of the verbs: 'And this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'

'believes' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to believe.

'has' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to have.

'will raise him up' = future tense, i.e. will be raised up.

Based on the Greek grammar, John 6:40 means: 'For this continues to be the will of my Father, that anyone who continues to know the Son and continues to believe in him continues to have eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day'.

This is not a verse to support OSAS but supports Perseverance of the Saints. ('The one who endures to the end will be saved' (Matt 24:13).

Very well written and presented brother Ozpen, thank you very much for sharing.

God bless

redleghunter · Aug 2, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Actually no. God's Sheep are God's sheep because they have entered into the gate (JESUS) by faith and believing and following God's Word *JOHN 10:1-38. Context matters.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word). Those who do not do not hear his Voice.

Who gives Jesus the sheep?

Guojing · Aug 2, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Sorry brother this one is hard to follow. I am not sure what you are trying to say here. God's Word is for those who believe and follow God's Word not for those who do not believe and do not follow. James says the devils believe but will not be saved because they did not follow. Do you believe we can be saved by believing God and not doing what God says?

My point is based on Romans 5:12-19.

If an unbeliever tries to renounce Satan and keeps doing good deeds, does he still belong to Satan? What do you think?

redleghunter · Aug 2, 2019

genez said:
Hebrews 6:4-8 was about Jewish believers living in Jerusalem. Many of them were yet zealous for the Law.

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul:
"You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed,
and all of them are zealous for the law." Ac 21:20

Many of these Jewish believers in Jerusalem were still offering animal sacrifices for their sins. Some even suckered Paul to get involved with such heresy. Its what got Paul severely disciplined by the Lord, and caused him to be put into Roman chains.

Because these Jewish believers were stubbornly resorting to still using animal blood at the Temple, they were putting the Cross/blood of Christ into open shame. That the Cross of Jesus did not really count!

To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God
all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." Heb 4:6b

That was the problem that wise believers were facing with the apostate Jewish believers who refused to walk according to the truth of the Cross and blood of Christ.

Hebrews 6:9 was a warning for the wise believers not to become obsessed with wasting their precious time trying to correct the apostate Jewish believers any longer. For it says that the apostates already had known too much to be with excuse for not repenting. And, for that reason? It says it was impossible to correct them to bring them back to repentance!

When apostates get that way? When they already knew too much to not know better? At that point it would be impossible to get them to repent. They have gone too far in hardening their hearts. Its like trying to get certain saved believers to stop praying to Mary. They just will not repent.

Hebrews states that instead of trying to get them to repent? Those believers who were walking straight with truth should forget about the apostates and move on. The wise ones should keep growing into receiving the blessings that will accompany salvation.

9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends,
we are convinced of better things in your case
—the things that have to do with salvation."

Those who were not agreeing with the apostate Jewish believers were being told in Hebrews 6:9 to move on and keep growing in grace to qualify for the blessings that will accompany salvation for those who mature.

grace and peace....

Exactly. These same Judaizers dogged Paul step by step as he planted churches. Why when he got reports from Galatia he spent a lot of ink correcting the Judaizer errors.

redleghunter · Aug 2, 2019

Hammster said:
Because He came for the lost sheep of Israel.

And those Pharisees were the false and corrupt shepherds Jesus condemns in John 10 and He said straight to their faces and in their faces.

redleghunter · Aug 2, 2019

zoidar said:
Why does he speak with the Pharisees at all then? Just to tell them they can't be saved?

To tell them they are false shepherds. Christ pulls no punches. He outright called them thieves and robbers.

John 10: NASB

1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. 2“But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. 3“To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4“When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5“A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”6This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.

redleghunter · Aug 2, 2019

OzSpen said:
royal priest,

This is what happens when you try to obtain the meaning of retaining or losing salvation, based on the English translation.

The Greek of John 6:40 (transliterated) states: gar houtos eimi ho thelēma ho egō patēr, hina pas ho theōreō ho hyios kai pisteuō eis autos echō aiōnios zōē kai egō anistēmi autos en ho eschatos hēmera.

Literally, without any exegesis of any of the words, grammar and syntax, the translation is:

"For this is the will of my Father, that anyone who knows/comes to a knowledge of the Son and believes in him has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day".

Note these verbs:

'is' = continuous action of the present tense, i.e. continues to be.

'knows/comes to a knowledge' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to know. The Pulpit Commentary on this verse comments, 'beholdeth' = knows, as meaning 'steadily and continuously contemplates'. This is not a once off knowledge of Jesus and then he's forgotten about. It's a steady contemplative knowledge of Jesus. Young's Literal Translation comes closest to conveying the continuous action of the verbs: 'And this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'

'believes' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to believe.

'has' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to have.

'will raise him up' = future tense, i.e. will be raised up.

Based on the Greek grammar, John 6:40 means: 'For this continues to be the will of my Father, that anyone who continues to know the Son and continues to believe in him continues to have eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day'.

This is not a verse to support OSAS but supports Perseverance of the Saints. ('The one who endures to the end will be saved' (Matt 24:13).

Oz

How does this change the meaning of verse 39? The poster presented verses 39-40.

redleghunter · Aug 2, 2019

OzSpen said:
Hammster,

Citing Romans 5 does not address the exegesis of the text of, say, John 6:39-40 where it is clearly stated that continuation of belief/faith is needed to continue to have salvation.

Romans 5 cannot refute this. Otherwise we have a biblical contradiction.

Oz

Actually they compliment each other.

The only difference is Romans 5 clarifies the saints, those who God sets apart will endure to the end.

redleghunter · Aug 2, 2019

zoidar said:
Why does he speak with the Pharisees at all then? Just to tell them they can't be saved?

Notice the Pharisees and rulers rejected John the Baptist. And John the Baptist had no good words for them either.

Blade · Aug 3, 2019

Not sure how some do it but for me its hard to really respond when when one verse is pulled. Context? I was 15 I can still see his face in the bible study "you always read before and after". I'll try to touch on two of them which stand out.

In Hebrews 6, Hebrews 10 If your going to USE this you should study up on it. For one knows its debatable on just who its talking about. Context. Who was Paul talking to? Give ya hint "HEBREWS" Jews. They had this "LAW" and "sacrifices"? And Heb 6 believer, Christians? Nope.. enlightened. Gee I wonder if Jews might think they were already enlightened.. what ever. Or lets take Judas. There were sent out 2 by 2. He partook in many things. What did Jesus say about the word "SEED"? Then "tasted" you going to tell me since you've been saved you have only "tasted". You know what that means. Where others sit down eat drink.. there are those that just taste.. get up leave never come back.. they tasted it..nothing else will get them to come back. They never opened that door.. never let Him in. So much more to this.. but moving on Heb 10.. I like this below.. CONTEXT..

10:1-4, The insufficiency of the sacrifice of animals to cleanse from sin
10:5, The incarnation of Christ
10:6-9, Old Testament offerings God has not desired and have been done away with
10:10-14, We are sanctified through the single sacrifice of Christ who does not need to offer many sacrifices
10:15-18, We have a new covenant
10:19-22, Entering the holy place of the blood of Jesus, beyond the veil so that we can draw near to God
10:23-25, Hold fast to this confession and uplift one another
10:26, The verse in question
10:27, Judgment
10:28, Abandoning the law of Moses
10:29-31, Stricter judgment for those who reject the blood of Christ by which they were sanctified
10:32, In former days you are persecuted

Do ya get a picture of WHO Paul was talking to? People that did sacrifices for sin still after being saved. That alone puts Christ to a open shame. Before you were born.. Christ had already died rose praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS ( I love saying that) and is at the right hand of the Father. He died for all your future sins. This apply to Heb 6 also. Gotta read ALL not just take a verse out and run with it.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 3, 2019

Blade said:
Not sure how some do it but for me its hard to really respond when when one verse is pulled. Context? I was 15 I can still see his face in the bible study "you always read before and after". I'll try to touch on two of them which stand out.

In Hebrews 6, Hebrews 10 If your going to USE this you should study up on it. For one knows its debatable on just who its talking about. Context. Who was Paul talking to? Give ya hint "HEBREWS" Jews. They had this "LAW" and "sacrifices"? And Heb 6 believer, Christians? Nope.. enlightened. Gee I wonder if Jews might think they were already enlightened.. what ever. Or lets take Judas. There were sent out 2 by 2. He partook in many things. What did Jesus say about the word "SEED"? Then "tasted" you going to tell me since you've been saved you have only "tasted". You know what that means. Where others sit down eat drink.. there are those that just taste.. get up leave never come back.. they tasted it..nothing else will get them to come back. They never opened that door.. never let Him in. So much more to this.. but moving on Heb 10.. I like this below.. CONTEXT..

10:1-4, The insufficiency of the sacrifice of animals to cleanse from sin

10:5, The incarnation of Christ

10:6-9, Old Testament offerings God has not desired and have been done away with

10:10-14, We are sanctified through the single sacrifice of Christ who does not need to offer many sacrifices

10:15-18, We have a new covenant

10:19-22, Entering the holy place of the blood of Jesus, beyond the veil so that we can draw near to God

10:23-25, Hold fast to this confession and uplift one another

10:26, The verse in question

10:27, Judgment

10:28, Abandoning the law of Moses

10:29-31, Stricter judgment for those who reject the blood of Christ by which they were sanctified

10:32, In former days you are persecuted

Do ya get a picture of WHO Paul was talking to? People that did sacrifices for sin still after being saved. That alone puts Christ to a open shame. Before you were born.. Christ had already died rose praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS ( I love saying that) and is at the right hand of the Father. He died for all your future sins. This apply to Heb 6 also. Gotta read ALL not just take a verse out and run with it.

What I find amusing in this argument are those people that are trying to argue that HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-38 are not direct warnings to believers not to depart the faith to return back to a life of known unrepentant sin despite these scriptures directly saying so.

Also why not answer and respond to the posts directly that have been provided earlier that show verse by verse showing CONTEXT that these scriptures are references to believers departing the faith and returning to a life of known unrepentant sin? Wheather they be JEWS or non JEWS is irrelavant because of two important facts. The points being made were that the WARNING CONTEXT of these scriptures were; 1. TO BELIEVERS and 2. THAT DEPARTED THE FAITH TO RETURN TO KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN.

1. THESE SCRIPTURES REFER TO BELIEVERS THAT HAD A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH

Let's look at the scriptures...

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS or UNBELIEVERS? The question your considering is; were these BELIEVERS and Born again christians. These scriptures directly say word for word that the topic of dscussion here are those who were BELIEVERS as the scriptures say...

1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5

So reviewing the CONTEXT of these scriptures we don't really need to say much they speak for themselves. Yep, HEBREWS 6:4-8 very clearly show here that we are talking about BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into a life of sin crucifying the son of God afresh.

Let's also look at HEBREWS 10:26-27

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For IF WE (BELIEVERS) sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Yep Paul includes himself in this WARNING. The subject matter is...

1. WE (BELIEVERS) return back to a life of known unrepentant SIN; HEBREWS 10:26
2. WE (BELIEVERS) being those who have received a knowledge of the truth; HEBREWS 10:26
3. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive the judgments of God; HEBREWS 10:27

Ok point 1 is established. Do you agree that these scriptures are in reference and WARNINGS to BELIEVERS and that these scripture are speaking about BELIEVERS that have a knowledge of the truth of the Gospel of JESUS Christ who return back to a life of sin?

2. THEY DEPARTED THE GOSPEL AND FAITH TO RETURN BACK TO A LIFE ON KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN

Let's look at the scriptures...

HEBREWS 6:6 [6], If THEY (ONCE BELIEVERS HEBREWS 6:4-5 see above) SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEMSELEVES TO REPENTANCE; seeing THEY (ONCE BELIEVERS HEBREWS 6:4-5 see above) crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The subject matter is continuing on from HEBREWS 6:4-5 (BELIEVERS)...

1. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6
2. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6
3. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

Let's also look at HEBREWS 10:26-27 again...

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For IF WE (BELIEVERS) sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1. WE (BELIEVERS) return back to a life of known unrepentant SIN; HEBREWS 10:26
2. WE (BELIEVERS) being those who have received a knowledge of the truth; HEBREWS 10:26
3. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive the judgments of God; HEBREWS 10:27

All the above is Gods Word shown in the scriptures therefore not my words!

As shown above already from HEBREWS 6:4-8 the subject matter is dealing with those who were BELIEVERS that departed from GOD and became "UNBELIEVERS" returning back to a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN. These people are BELIEVERS as shown in the CONTEXT of HEBREWS 6:4-5 and HEBREWS 10:26.

Do you disagree that with what has been posted so far? Is the subject matter and context here in both sets of scriptures dealing with BELIEVERS that have departed the faith to return to a life of known unrepentant sin?

These are the points being made in posts in both post # 68 linked; post # 98 linked and post # 99 linked and elsewhere. These posts were never arguing if the audience that was being addressed were JEWS or non JEWS. The scriptures were provided as evidence to show that if we as BELIEVERS depart the faith and return to a life of UNREPENTANT SIN to no longer BELIEVE and follow God's WORD than we can lose our salvation.

HEBREWS 10:28-38 continues...
[28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (see HEBREWS 6:4-8)
[30], For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31], It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
[32], But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
[33], Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
[34], For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
[35], Cast not away therefore your confidence (speaking to believers), which hath great recompence of reward.
[36], For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
[37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
[38], Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Again key points to consider in HEBREWS 10:28-28 (from HEBREWS 10:26-27)

1. WE (BELIEVERS) return back to a life of known unrepentant SIN; HEBREWS 10:26
2. WE (BELIEVERS) being those who have received a knowledge of the truth; HEBREWS 10:26
3. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive the judgments of God; HEBREWS 10:27

4. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive a greater punishment for returning to a life of known unrepentant sin because we have receved a knowledge of the truth and turned away from it; HEBREWS 10:29

5. WE (BELIEVERS) by returning back to known unrepentant sin after we receive a knowledge of the truth we count the blood of the covenant an UNHOLY thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace; HEBREWS 10:29

6. WE (BELIEVERS) are warned not to CAST AWAY our confidence which has great reward; HEBREWS 10:35

7. WE (BELIEVERS) receive God's promise after we do God's will; HEBREWS 10:36
8. WE (BELIEVERS) are WARNED NOT TO DRAW BACK INTO UNBELIEF; HEBREWS 10:38

As you can see here all of the above is Gods Word not mine and the scripture application and context is to believers drawing back to something that is not the Gospel of Christ. The application here is universal. If we draw back to anything that is not the gospel of Christ and continue to sin willfully after we receive a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of judgment.

There is no scripture that says we can continue in known unrepentant sin and enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Those who believe this believe the false Gospel of the father of lies first spoken to EVE in the garden of Eden *GENESIS 3:1-5.

God's Word says all scripture applies to us *2 TIMOTHY 3:16; MATTHEW 4:4; 1 CORINTHIANS 10:11. What do you think the is the meaning of the scriptures that say God is not the God of the dead but of the living *MATTHEW 22:32

I believe God's Word is for me today, how about you?

zoidar · Aug 3, 2019

Hammster said:
He did.

redleghunter said:
Notice the Pharisees and rulers rejected John the Baptist. And John the Baptist had no good words for them either.

I believe Jesus talked to them (in John 10) to give them a sting in the heart, possibly leading to repentance. How did Jesus do this? By telling them they were on the wrong path, and pointing out to them that he indeed was the Messiah. "Look at what I do! Who do you think I am?"

royal priest · Aug 3, 2019

OzSpen said:
royal priest,

This is what happens when you try to obtain the meaning of retaining or losing salvation, based on the English translation.

The Greek of John 6:40 (transliterated) states: gar houtos eimi ho thelēma ho egō patēr, hina pas ho theōreō ho hyios kai pisteuō eis autos echō aiōnios zōē kai egō anistēmi autos en ho eschatos hēmera.

Literally, without any exegesis of any of the words, grammar and syntax, the translation is:

"For this is the will of my Father, that anyone who knows/comes to a knowledge of the Son and believes in him has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day".

Note these verbs:

'is' = continuous action of the present tense, i.e. continues to be.

'knows/comes to a knowledge' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to know. The Pulpit Commentary on this verse comments, 'beholdeth' = knows, as meaning 'steadily and continuously contemplates'. This is not a once off knowledge of Jesus and then he's forgotten about. It's a steady contemplative knowledge of Jesus. Young's Literal Translation comes closest to conveying the continuous action of the verbs: 'And this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'

'believes' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to believe.

'has' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to have.

'will raise him up' = future tense, i.e. will be raised up.

Based on the Greek grammar, John 6:40 means: 'For this continues to be the will of my Father, that anyone who continues to know the Son and continues to believe in him continues to have eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day'.

This is not a verse to support OSAS but supports Perseverance of the Saints. ('The one who endures to the end will be saved' (Matt 24:13).

Oz

The ones who persevere to the end will be saved in the end because they are being saved in the present.
1 Corinthians 1:18
the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God (present, passive participle)
The offense of the cross is that God does not save men because of their performance, but in spite of it, all of our perseverance notwithstanding. Jesus is the performer, any accolades we receive from God will be due to what Christ has done and is doing to cause His people to persevere.

GirdYourLoins · Aug 3, 2019

Ive always believed we should live our lives as if we can lose our salvation. There are far more knowledgeable bible scholars than me who cant agree on this so it is far from clear cut. A lot of what people believe is down to how they were taught. If you were brought up in the faith being told you can or ant lose your salvation most people stay in that camp.

My first church (where i stayed for nearly 20 years) taught that you cant lose your faith, however from my own bible study I believe you can. There is of course the unforgivable sin. I think this is delibrately and knowingly rejecting Christ as your saviour. The thing is if you were in your right mind and know who Jesus is and what he's done it is questionable if you could reject Him.

royal priest · Aug 3, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
What is true salvation in your view brother His student? Can we have true salvation and lose it according to the scriptures *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-31?

Jesus taught it is possible to be close to the kingdom of God. The author of Hebrews is teaching just how close someone may be before they prove they were never actually in it.
But it is impossible to leave once you have truly entered the kingdom. For those whom God has taken from the domain of darkness and placed into the kingdom of His dear Son "are being strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy". Colossians 1:11-13
There are many professing Christians that are merely on the outside looking in. For although they worship Him with their lips, their hearts are far from Him.

A_Thinker · Aug 3, 2019

zoidar said:
"... show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

"Show me" (which is important), ... but I am not the God Who saves you. I am only a fellow-servant, or perhaps a seeker.

The display of your faith is vital to me, ... but it does not in any way enable your own salvation.

Hammster · Aug 3, 2019

zoidar said:
I believe Jesus talked to them (in John 10) to give them a sting in the heart, possibly leading to repentance. How did Jesus do this? By telling them they were on the wrong path, and pointing out to them that he indeed was the Messiah. "Look at what I do! Who do you think I am?"

He gave them a reason why they didn’t believe.

A_Thinker · Aug 3, 2019

GirdYourLoins said:
My first church (where i stayed for nearly 20 years) taught that you cant lose your faith, however from my own bible study I believe you can. There is of course the unforgivable sin. I think this is delibrately and knowingly rejecting Christ as your saviour. The thing is if you were in your right mind and know who Jesus is and what he's done it is questionable if you could reject Him.

Now you're thinking.

The Hebrews passage tells of that if you have been saved, experiencing fully the transforming power of God, and reconciliation with Him ... if you were to turn your back and reject that, that there is no more repentance possible for you.

So, in effect, I think that we use the wrong terminology when we speak of "losing your salvation", as one might lose a glove.

If it is possible, ... it is no less than a full, utter, and knowing rejection of one's relationship with God as one of His children. It would be akin to Satan's rejection of God, ... which then is understandably non-correctable. The language is very strong in Hebrews 6 ...

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Can you knowingly discard your received salvation ? I don't think that it is clear, ... but the question really is moot for those who wish to be saved.

But will God loose His hold upon one who desires to be saved ... simply for sin's sake ? It simply doesn't compute to me. God did everything in His power to save sinners from sin. That His will to save those willing to be saved ... would be so easily foiled by sin ... does not appear to be affirmed by scripture.

zoidar · Aug 3, 2019

Hammster said:
He gave them a reason why they didn’t believe.

In vers 37, 38?

"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."

Is Jesus telling them to believe something he knows they can't believe?

Guojing · Aug 3, 2019

GirdYourLoins said:
The thing is if you were in your right mind and know who Jesus is and what he's done it is questionable if you could reject Him.

You can think of it this way, even during the 1000 year millennial rule where Jesus can literally be seen, there will still be people rejecting him, what's more now.

CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

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loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

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