The Two Witnesses

Carl Emerson said:

Folks are saying we don't need the miraculous any more because we have the scripture - maybe someone should have told God that... ??

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The church will be raptured before the Tribulation, what is left on earth will be Jews and Gentiles.

Since Jesus will come back for the Jews, they need signs and wonders once again. The Jews really believe in signs.

Jen35 said:

Well who are they

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The most popular answer would be Moses and Elijah since the former is known for the miracle of turning water into blood, while the latter for shutting the sky from raining


Revelation 11:6

Guojing said:

The most popular answer would be Moses and Elijah since the former is known for the miracle of turning water into blood, while the latter for shutting the sky from raining


Revelation 11:6

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They already were here and now gone? And how would they die again?

devin553344 said:

They already were here and now gone? And how would they die again?

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They never died actually. Elijah was taken up into heaven.

Moses body was never found, and Micheal was disputing with Satan about where the body is, so there is a good reason to believe Moses was also taken up to heaven.

Guojing said:

Moses body was never found

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Thought the tomb was found in Jordan just outside the promised land

timothyu said:

Thought the tomb was found in Jordan just outside the promised land

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Well, Moses and Elijah was recorded as appearing during Jesus Transfiguration correct? That is another piece of evidence that Moses is still alive now in heaven.

Carl Emerson said:

Hi there,

If the gifts have ceased - and the word no longer needs to be confirmed with signs - Will we assume that the two witnesses are fraudulent?

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How could they be fraudulent if they are His witnesses?
And when did the gifts cease?

Carl Emerson said:

Josephus would surely have made mention of these events - rivers turning to blood - folks getting killed by fire...

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Well, it does say they have the power to do these things, not that they did do them. Obviously, this must refer to events that occurred in the same period this book was written in, it wouldn't make sense for this book to be read in the seven churches with references to a time beyond their own, about events beyond their own. It was informing these seven churches about what were to happen in their time and what they are to expect and why they should be encouraged.

Jonaitis said:

Well, it does say they have the power to do these things, not that they did do them. Obviously, this must refer to events that occurred in the same period this book was written in, it wouldn't make sense for this book to be read in the seven churches with references to a time beyond their own, about events beyond their own. It was informing these seven churches about what were to happen in their time and what they are to expect and why they should be encouraged.

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Dual and even multiple fulfillment of prophecy is fairly common.

David Wright said:

Dual and even multiple fulfillment of prophecy is fairly common.

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However, Revelation 11 doesn't seem to imply a dual prophecy.

devin553344 said:

We apparently are waiting to find out who they are?

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Traditional interpretation of Revelation has it that the two witnesses are Christ and His Church. This is taken from Christ's words in the opening of Revelation...Revelation 1:5...that is, Christ is the faithful witness and passages such as Isaiah 43:10-12; Matthew 10:18 and Luke 24:45-49 to indicate the Church (Church capitalized to indicate the Body of all true believers known only to God alone) as the other faithful witness. You may wonder how a plurality such as the Church could be named as one and only one other witness...we are all one in Christ. Revelation is riddle-like in nature.

devin553344 said:

I don't really subscribe to the bible being the end of gifts. I've witnessed too many gifts myself to not believe.

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I believe most use the I Corinthians 13:8-10 passages as proof that the gifts have disappeared, but those passages can also be understood to mean the gifts disappear at the fulfillment of the age...Judgement Day. Looking at verse 12 there...Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known...I get the sense that this is correct...in fact it impressed me that way upon my first reading.
On the other hand, I am very leery of the demonstration of some of the gifts today which cannot be proven as those bestowed upon some by the Lord. I Corinthians warns against the use of gifts such as revelations and tongues which cannot be interpreted. Even if someone were to interpret I would not be moved unless I could see it to be Scriptural ...the spiritual conditions these days demand an extra guard against frauds in my opinion.

devin553344 said:

I don't really subscribe to the bible being the end of gifts. I've witnessed too many gifts myself to not believe.

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I think what people meant by end of gifts is that the sign gifts, such as those described in Mark 16:17:18 are over.

But it does not mean God does not heal today, but its no longer guaranteed to happen. I hope you understand the difference.

throughfireytrial said:

Traditional interpretation of Revelation has it that the two witnesses are Christ and His Church. This is taken from Christ's words in the opening of Revelation...Revelation 1:5...that is, Christ is the faithful witness and passages such as Isaiah 43:10-12; Matthew 10:18 and Luke 24:45-49 to indicate the Church (Church capitalized to indicate the Body of all true believers known only to God alone) as the other faithful witness. You may wonder how a plurality such as the Church could be named as one and only one other witness...we are all one in Christ. Revelation is riddle-like in nature.

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The other way of stating that the Church is a witness is to quote Revelation 5:9-10:
And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

Guojing said:

The most popular answer would be Moses and Elijah since the former is known for the miracle of turning water into blood, while the latter for shutting the sky from raining


Revelation 11:6

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Ha and wow you said that like you actually meant it or as if it is true or something. And no gift has ceased if the holy spirit still exist because the holy spirit is where I gifts become alive. Man, im telling you this world is misinformed and full of error...I don't think any gift has ceased, what I truly believe though is not everyone has been born again or has the holy spirit. Even Jesus said so himself that we will not be able to enter the kingdom of God unless we are born again. I believe the holy spirit is real and that as long as one possess the holy spirit today, it ain't no gifts ceased and the Lord isnt dead, he is still on his throne. If he wanted to empower someone on earth with a supernatural gift today, I believe he would do so. What I don't believe is people. The Lord does not lie, only people lie. And if Jesus says anything is possible in this life, then it ain't no gifts ceased. Where do you people get y'all information? Because I'm telling you most of it and all that I have read in here and on this forum is pure nonsense and error and not spiritual at all...

Carl Emerson said:

Hi there,

If the gifts have ceased - and the word no longer needs to be confirmed with signs - Will we assume that the two witnesses are fraudulent?

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You should know by now that every verse in the Bible confirms the cessation of the gifts, including "Jesus wept". /sarc

Jen35 said:

Ha and wow you said that like you actually meant it or as if it is true or something. And no gift has ceased if the holy spirit still exist because the holy spirit is where I gifts become alive. Man, telling you this world is misinformed and full of error...I don't think any gift has ceased, one I truly believe though is not everyone has the holy spirit. Even Jesus told said so himself that will be able to enter the kingdom of God unless they are born again. I believe the holy spirit is real and that as long as one possess the holy spirit, it ain't no gifts ceased and the Lord isnt dead, he is still on his throne. If he wanted to empower someone on Earth with a supernatural gift today, I believe he would do so. What I don't believe is people. The Lord does not lie, only people lie. And if Jesus says anything is possible in this life, then it ain't no gifts ceased. Where do you people get y'all information? Because I'm telling you most of and all that I have read in here and on this forum is pure nonsense and error....

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Are you objecting that there will indeed be two witnesses during the Tribulation? You don't think the Revelations passage is literal?

If all christians are the church, why the heck nobody is getting ready then, isn't the church suppose to be preparing herself?