CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Prophet Jason · Aug 2, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
CAN YOU LOSE SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Let's look at the scriptures. Salvation is condtional on...

FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4, REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 and CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 in the NEW COVENANT, are all requirements for the hope of salvation. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13.

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT, SIN is the transgression of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and through the LAW we have the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11. No one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have by God's GRACE repented of their SINS and CONFESSED them and by FAITH Accepted the FREE GIFT of God's SALVATION *ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 1 JOHN 1:9; EPHESIANS 2:13. According to God's WORD it is only those who are CONINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN that are "UNDER THE LAW" because they stand guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19 and do not know God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2;1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

ARE WE IN A SAVED STATE WHILE CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state before God and can lose their salvation unless they REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.
* HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10; GALATIANS 5:19-21; EPHESIANS 5:6; COLOSSIANS 3:6; REVELATION 21:7-8; TITUS 2:11-12

There are God's Word showing that we can have the assurance of salvation today as long as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word always in the "present tense" (now) and is why it is written we have the hope of eternal life now as we believe and follow God's Word...

TITUS 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

COLOSSIANS 1:22-23 [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

However, it is only those who ENDURE temptation to the END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word that receive eternal life.....

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

JAMES 1:12 [12], Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

God's Word is full of warnings not to depart the faith and all these things are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come.

2 PETER 3:9 [9], The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

What are your thoughts?

May God bless you as you seek him and continue in His Word.

It's easy to lose your Salvation and Eternal Life if you throw away your Cross.

Prophet Jason · Aug 2, 2019

It's easy to lose your Salvation and Eternal Life simply throw away your Cross.

His student · Aug 2, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hope this helps

It always helps to look at different ways that certain controversial scriptures can be seen.

But the fact is that I've worked through this subject dozens of times in the last 40 years or so and you've supplied nothing that I haven't looked at and considered many times.

I believe that you are wrong. But you do have a lot of company in that.

By the way - I'm a living example of why Hebrews 6 can't be intended for believers.

I left the faith after a short time because I couldn't live up to the standard I was told it was necessary to live up to in order not to loose my salvation. I wanted no part in a supposed salvation that I supposedly lost and regained over and over again in the short time I was a believer who succumbed to temptations and repented time and time again.

I came back after some 15 years of debauched atheistic lifestyle.

I haven't gone astray since.

While preaching against eternal security couldn't hold me to Jesus and in fact drove me away --- believing in His grace has held me fast for the last 44 years and will see me through to the end.

zoidar · Aug 2, 2019

His student said:
It always helps to look at different ways that certain controversial scriptures can be seen.

But the fact is that I've worked through this subject dozens of times in the last 40 years or so and you've supplied nothing that I haven't looked at a considered many time.

I believe that you are wrong. But you do have a lot of company in that.

Have you checked with Ante Nicene Fathers?

redleghunter · Aug 2, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I find the "you will lose your salvation" teaching is fearmongering.

1st John teaches that we have boldness on the day of judgment because in this world we are like Jesus. This is characterized by love being matured or made perfect within us.

1st John also teaches that the one who fears does not mature this way .

The fearmongering teaching method does not get the results of anyone having boldness on the day of judgment ... and that's bad news.

The above was the basis of how I coached baseball. Meaning on the principles. Never intimidated a kid to do better. Mentored them, encouraged them and yes in a constructive manner disciplined them when misbehaving or bad attitude. But since they were “mine” I never kicked them off the team. Kicking them off the team meant I failed the child.

GenemZ · Aug 2, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi brother royal priest, nice to meet you and thanks for sharing with us. In relation to your post how do you read the scriptures in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and the parable of the sower in LUKE 8:13 which are talking about believers who fall away from believing and following God's Word?

Hebrews 6:4-8 was about Jewish believers living in Jerusalem. Many of them were yet zealous for the Law.

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul:
"You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed,
and all of them are zealous for the law." Ac 21:20

Many of these Jewish believers in Jerusalem were still offering animal sacrifices for their sins. Some even suckered Paul to get involved with such heresy. Its what got Paul severely disciplined by the Lord, and caused him to be put into Roman chains.

Because these Jewish believers were stubbornly resorting to still using animal blood at the Temple, they were putting the Cross/blood of Christ into open shame. That the Cross of Jesus did not really count!

To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God
all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." Heb 4:6b

That was the problem that wise believers were facing with the apostate Jewish believers who refused to walk according to the truth of the Cross and blood of Christ.

Hebrews 6:9 was a warning for the wise believers not to become obsessed with wasting their precious time trying to correct the apostate Jewish believers any longer. For it says that the apostates already had known too much to be with excuse for not repenting. And, for that reason? It says it was impossible to correct them to bring them back to repentance!

When apostates get that way? When they already knew too much to not know better? At that point it would be impossible to get them to repent. They have gone too far in hardening their hearts. Its like trying to get certain saved believers to stop praying to Mary. They just will not repent.

Hebrews states that instead of trying to get them to repent? Those believers who were walking straight with truth should forget about the apostates and move on. The wise ones should keep growing into receiving the blessings that will accompany salvation.

9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends,
we are convinced of better things in your case
—the things that have to do with salvation."

Those who were not agreeing with the apostate Jewish believers were being told in Hebrews 6:9 to move on and keep growing in grace to qualify for the blessings that will accompany salvation for those who mature.

grace and peace....

Hammster · Aug 2, 2019

zoidar said:
Why do you think that Jesus talks to the Jews like he does? If you think about it. Do you think Jesus tells them that they are lost and can never be saved? Why would he say such a thing?

Because He came for the lost sheep of Israel.

zoidar · Aug 2, 2019

Hammster said:
Because He came for the lost sheep of Israel.

Why does he speak with the Pharisees at all then? Just to tell them they can't be saved?

Guojing · Aug 2, 2019

Can an unbeliever fall away from Satan if he were to just keep doing deeds like helping the poor, caring for others, etc etc?

If he cannot, we believe that he is still unsaved, what makes us think Jesus's finished work is so much weaker than Adam?

OzSpen · Aug 2, 2019

royal priest said:
In other words, if you stop believing, then you never belonged to Jesus to begin with.
John 6:39-40
"this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

royal priest,

This is what happens when you try to obtain the meaning of retaining or losing salvation, based on the English translation.

The Greek of John 6:40 (transliterated) states: gar houtos eimi ho thelēma ho egō patēr, hina pas ho theōreō ho hyios kai pisteuō eis autos echō aiōnios zōē kai egō anistēmi autos en ho eschatos hēmera.

Literally, without any exegesis of any of the words, grammar and syntax, the translation is:

"For this is the will of my Father, that anyone who knows/comes to a knowledge of the Son and believes in him has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day".

Note these verbs:

'is' = continuous action of the present tense, i.e. continues to be.
'knows/comes to a knowledge' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to know. The Pulpit Commentary on this verse comments, 'beholdeth' = knows, as meaning 'steadily and continuously contemplates'. This is not a once off knowledge of Jesus and then he's forgotten about. It's a steady contemplative knowledge of Jesus. Young's Literal Translation comes closest to conveying the continuous action of the verbs: 'And this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'
'believes' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to believe.
'has' = continuous action of present tense, i.e. continues to have.
'will raise him up' = future tense, i.e. will be raised up.

Based on the Greek grammar, John 6:40 means: 'For this continues to be the will of my Father, that anyone who continues to know the Son and continues to believe in him continues to have eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day'.

This is not a verse to support OSAS but supports Perseverance of the Saints. ('The one who endures to the end will be saved' (Matt 24:13).

Oz

OzSpen · Aug 2, 2019

Hammster said:
No

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
— Romans 5:1-11

Hammster,

Citing Romans 5 does not address the exegesis of the text of, say, John 6:39-40 where it is clearly stated that continuation of belief/faith is needed to continue to have salvation.

Romans 5 cannot refute this. Otherwise we have a biblical contradiction.

Oz

Hammster · Aug 2, 2019

zoidar said:
Why does he speak with the Pharisees at all then? Just to tell them they can't be saved?

He did.

Hammster · Aug 2, 2019

OzSpen said:
Hammster,

Citing Romans 5 does not address the exegesis of the text of, say, John 6:39-40 where it is clearly stated that continuation of belief/faith is needed to continue to have salvation.

Romans 5 cannot refute this. Otherwise we have a biblical contradiction.

Oz

You might. I don’t.

Swan7 · Aug 2, 2019

zoidar said:
Why does he speak with the Pharisees at all then? Just to tell them they can't be saved?

For this answer, you may want to read the OT. I'm going through it again as there is SO much in there that I often miss. Your question being one of them and is found throughout the OT as prophesies and history being repeated.

GenemZ · Aug 2, 2019

zoidar said:
Why does he speak with the Pharisees at all then? Just to tell them they can't be saved?

Because the Pharisees were seen as religious giants to the Jews and had the Jews under the tyranny of their legalistic man made rules and regulations. Jesus wanted to publicly embarrass them as frauds and to pull the carpet out from under them. Jesus was amazing the people how he made the teachings of the Pharisees to appear null and void.

To make the people free from the religious tyranny of the Pharisees he had to confront them in front of the very people they had been dominating over with their man made legalistic religion.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 2, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I find the "you will lose your salvation" teaching is fearmongering.

1st John teaches that we have boldness on the day of judgment because in this world we are like Jesus. This is characterized by love being matured or made perfect within us.

1st John also teaches that the one who fears does not mature this way .

The fearmongering teaching method does not get the results of anyone having boldness on the day of judgment ... and that's bad news.

Well that is not true. You have been provided God's Word and in response you provide your own words. The reason for 1 JOHN is that we sin not *1 JOHN 2:1 and defines exactly who the children of God are and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4 as does JESUS MATTHEW 7:22-23.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 2, 2019

Michael Collum said:
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

What I get from this passage in this context is a drastic attitude shift, instead of preaching because we're afraid everyone is going to hell, proclaim because we believe God for it, that being Salvation.

Depends on what you mean by believe. The devils also believe but do not follow and will not be saved. The same as many at the second coming who believed but did not follow *MATTHEW 7:22-23. Yep many are going to be disappointed on that day when they had the opportunity to hear God's Word but choose to turn away from God's Word to hear the false gospel of smooth things and did not know the day of their visitation.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 2, 2019

genez said:
Hebrews 6:4-8 was about Jewish believers living in Jerusalem. Many of them were yet zealous for the Law.

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul:
"You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed,
and all of them are zealous for the law." Ac 21:20

Many of these Jewish believers in Jerusalem were still offering animal sacrifices for their sins. Some even suckered Paul to get involved with such heresy. Its what got Paul severely disciplined by the Lord, and caused him to be put into Roman chains.

Because these Jewish believers were stubbornly resorting to still using animal blood at the Temple, they were putting the Cross/blood of Christ into open shame. That the Cross of Jesus did not really count!

To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God
all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." Heb 4:6b

That was the problem that wise believers were facing with the apostate Jewish believers who refused to walk according to the truth of the Cross and blood of Christ.

Hebrews 6:9 was a warning for the wise believers not to become obsessed with wasting their precious time trying to correct the apostate Jewish believers any longer. For it says that the apostates already had known too much to be with excuse for not repenting. And, for that reason? It says it was impossible to correct them to bring them back to repentance!

When apostates get that way? When they already knew too much to not know better? At that point it would be impossible to get them to repent. They have gone too far in hardening their hearts. Its like trying to get certain saved believers to stop praying to Mary. They just will not repent.

Hebrews states that instead of trying to get them to repent? Those believers who were walking straight with truth should forget about the apostates and move on. The wise ones should keep growing into receiving the blessings that will accompany salvation.

9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends,
we are convinced of better things in your case
—the things that have to do with salvation."

Those who were not agreeing with the apostate Jewish believers were being told in Hebrews 6:9 to move on and keep growing in grace to qualify for the blessings that will accompany salvation for those who mature.

grace and peace....

Hello genez, thanks for posting your thoughts. For me though I do not see how what you have posted here addresses what was shared in relation to HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-38 not to mention all the scriptures throughout this OP and the OLD and NEW Testament that warn believers not to depart the faith. If believers could not depart the faith there would be no warnings in God's Word not to do so.

Whether PAUL is talking to JEWS departing the Gospel of JESUS Christ to return back to Judaism or whether we are talking to gentiles who were once believers departing the faith to return to a life of known unrepentant sin. This is the point that is being made in these scriptures and the many warnings not to depart the faith to return to sin.

You seem to have thought to by pass these points that Gods Word demonstrates.

Blessings.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 2, 2019

His student said:
It always helps to look at different ways that certain controversial scriptures can be seen.
But the fact is that I've worked through this subject dozens of times in the last 40 years or so and you've supplied nothing that I haven't looked at and considered many times. I believe that you are wrong. But you do have a lot of company in that.

Yet here you still are not able to show that HEBREWS 6:4-8 is not talking about those who were believers that departed the faith to live a life on known unrepentant sin to become unbelievers. If this were the only scriptures warning on this subject in the bible then it may be worth looking into further. The fact that similar warnings not to depart the faith is given all through the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures and that God's promises are conditional on believing and following God's Word puts your position on shaky ground. There is no scripture that says we can be saved once then go out and depart the faith and return back to a life on known unrepentant sin and be saved. This is a false gospel first spoken by the father of lies to Eve in the Garden of Eden *GENESIS 3:1-5.

His student said:
By the way - I'm a living example of why Hebrews 6 can't be intended for believers.

Only if you deny the scriptures which show that HEBREWS 6:4-8 is in reference to believers that departed the faith to return to a life of known unrepentant sin...

HEBREWS 6:4-8
[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS or UNBELIEVERS? The question your considering is; were these BELIEVERS and Born again christians. Lets look at the key points in these that describe who there people were from the scriptures...

1. They were once enlightened; v4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; v4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; v4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; v5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come v5

So reviewing the CONTEXT of these scriptures we don't really need to say much they speak for themselves. These people were BELIEVERS that departed from GOD and became "UNBELIEVERS" returning back to a life of sin. These people are BELIEVERS as shown in the CONTEXT of v4-5 which continues...

[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Yep, BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into sin..

God says it not me. Do you believe Gods Word? I do.

His student said:
I left the faith after a short time because I couldn't live up to the standard I was told it was necessary to live up to in order not to loose my salvation. I wanted no part in a supposed salvation that I supposedly lost and regained over and over again in the short time I was a believer who succumbed to temptations and repented time and time again. I came back after some 15 years of debauched atheistic lifestyle. I haven't gone astray since. While preaching against eternal security couldn't hold me to Jesus and in fact drove me away --- believing in His grace has held me fast for the last 44 years and will see me through to the end.

Thankyou for sharing your experience. Have you returned to the faith or are you now only following a different Gospel teaching to what you first believed as shown in your story?

BTW the scriptures here are in reference to those who have fallen away to live a life of known unrepentant sin. It is impossible for them to have repentance while staying there. It does not say one cannot return to God and be sorry for their sins and return to the faith (prodigal son).

Hope this helps

LoveGodsWord · Aug 2, 2019

Guojing said:
Can an unbeliever fall away from Satan if he were to just keep doing deeds like helping the poor, caring for others, etc etc?
If he cannot, we believe that he is still unsaved, what makes us think Jesus's finished work is so much weaker than Adam?

Sorry brother this one is hard to follow. I am not sure what you are trying to say here. God's Word is for those who believe and follow God's Word not for those who do not believe and do not follow. James says the devils believe but will not be saved because they did not follow. Do you believe we can be saved by believing God and not doing what God says?

CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

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