CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

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His student

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What is true salvation in your view brother His student?
True salvation is having passed from death to life never again to come into condemnation and having been sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of judgment and having been seated with Christ in Heaven according to Jesus and Paul.
Can we have true salvation and lose it according to the scriptures *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-31?
NO.
HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-31?
Hebrews 6 has to do with the Jews rejecting the Messiah and His finished work at Calvary in favor of keeping the law for hope of salvation.

If it had to do with born again believers who have stumbled and fallen away not being able to repent and return again it would go against dozens of statements that tell us otherwise. It would also make the Lord a liar when He told us that we should forgive those who sin against us even if it's 7 times in a day as the Lord will do for us.

In Hebrews 10 we are told specifically as believers that, "...we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls."

The writer's comments clearly do not apply to us.

In any good and thorough systematic theology concerning eternal security or lack thereof - we have to take into account the preponderance of scriptures related to the subject. We are not to take a few isolated scriptures that seem to teach lack of security and latch onto them.

If we do that - we find that the two choices aren't even close when it comes to the preponderance of the scripture's witness.
 
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zoidar

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Gods sheep follow because they are sheep. As Jesus said to the unbelievers, ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.. John 10:26. A goat can’t make himself into a sheep

Yet, Jesus tells them how to become his sheep...

John 10:37-38
 
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zoidar

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True salvation is having passed from death to life never again to come into condemnation and having been sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of judgment and having been seated with Christ in Heaven according to Jesus and Paul.

NO.
Hebrews 6 has to do with the Jews rejecting the Messiah and His finished work at Calvary in favor of keeping the law for hope of salvation.

If it had to do with born again believers who have stumbled and fallen away not being able to repent and return again it would go against dozens of statements that tell us otherwise. It would also make the Lord a liar when He told us that we should forgive those who sin against us even if it's 7 times in a day as the Lord will do for us.

In Hebrews 10 we are told specifically as believers that, "...we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls."

The writer's comments clearly do not apply to us.

In any good and thorough systematic theology concerning eternal security or lack thereof - we have to take into account the preponderance of scriptures related to the subject. We are not to take a few isolated scriptures that seem to teach lack of security and latch onto them.

If we do that - we find that the two choices aren't even close when it comes to the preponderance of the scripture's witness.

"We are not to take a few isolated scriptures that seem to teach lack of security and latch onto them. "

Neither are we to latch in a few isolated OSAS verses to the warnings and every place the scripture says we can fall away. We need to see both, we are secure in Christ - true, we can fall away - true.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Gods sheep follow because they are sheep. As Jesus said to the unbelievers, ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.. John 10:26. A goat can’t make himself into a sheep
Actually no. God's Sheep are God's sheep because they have entered into the gate (JESUS) by faith and believing and following God's Word *JOHN 10:1-38. Context matters.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word). Those who do not do not hear his Voice.
 
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A_Thinker

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CAN YOU LOSE SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Let's look at the scriptures. Salvation is condtional on...

FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4, REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 and CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 in the NEW COVENANT, are all requirements for the hope of salvation. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13.

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT, SIN is the transgression of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and through the LAW we have the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11. No one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have by God's GRACE repented of their SINS and CONFESSED them and by FAITH Accepted the FREE GIFT of God's SALVATION *ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 1 JOHN 1:9; EPHESIANS 2:13. According to God's WORD it is only those who are CONINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN that are "UNDER THE LAW" because they stand guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19 and do not know God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2;1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

ARE WE IN A SAVED STATE WHILE CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state before God and can lose their salvation unless they REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.
* HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10; GALATIANS 5:19-21; EPHESIANS 5:6; COLOSSIANS 3:6; REVELATION 21:7-8; TITUS 2:11-12

There are God's Word showing that we can have the assurance of salvation today as long as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word always in the "present tense" (now) and is why it is written we have the hope of eternal life now as we believe and follow God's Word...

TITUS 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

COLOSSIANS 1:22-23 [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

However, it is only those who ENDURE temptation to the END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word that receive eternal life.....

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

JAMES 1:12 [12], Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

God's Word is full of warnings not to depart the faith and all these things are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come.

2 PETER 3:9 [9], The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

What are your thoughts?

May God bless you as you seek him and continue in His Word.
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

His life, not our life ....
 
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zoidar

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Gods sheep follow because they are sheep. As Jesus said to the unbelievers, ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.. John 10:26. A goat can’t make himself into a sheep

Why do you think that Jesus talks to the Jews like he does? If you think about it. Do you think Jesus tells them that they are lost and can never be saved? Why would he say such a thing?
 
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redleghunter

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Not really. It is God's word that is provided in the OP not mine. Do you do not believe the scriptures provided? If not why not?
I was referring to your response to the Scriptures @Hammster posted.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You said this before but so far no one has provided any scripture to show that if one falls away from believing and following God's Word they cannot lose salvation. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4
Hebrews 6 has to do with the Jews rejecting the Messiah and His finished work at Calvary in favor of keeping the law for hope of salvation. If it had to do with born again believers who have stumbled and fallen away not being able to repent and return again it would go against dozens of statements that tell us otherwise. It would also make the Lord a liar when He told us that we should forgive those who sin against us even if it's 7 times in a day as the Lord will do for us.
Let's look at the scritures...

HEBREWS 6:4-8

[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS or UNBELIEVERS? The question your considering is; were these BELIEVERS and Born again christians. Lets look at the key points in these that describe who there people were from the scriptures...

1. They were once enlightened; v4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; v4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; v4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; v5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come v5

So reviewing the CONTEXT of these scriptures we don't really need to say much they speak for themselves. These people were BELIEVERS that departed from GOD and became "UNBELIEVERS" returning back to a life of sin. These people are BELIEVERS as shown in the CONTEXT of v4-5 which continues...

[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Yep, BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into sin..

[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Yep thier end is to be burned does not sound like they will be going into God's Kingdom not having any REPENTANCE for sin (v6). These scripture are pretty rock solid I think and show that a BELIEVER can FALL AWAY back into SIN. Not sure why your having problems here brother to be honest.
In Hebrews 10 we are told specifically as believers that, "...we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls."

The writer's comments clearly do not apply to us.

In any good and thorough systematic theology concerning eternal security or lack thereof - we have to take into account the preponderance of scriptures related to the subject. We are not to take a few isolated scriptures that seem to teach lack of security and latch onto them.

If we do that - we find that the two choices aren't even close when it comes to the preponderance of the scripture's witness.
Well that is not true brother. God's Word says all scripture applies to us *2 TIMOTHY 3:16; MATTHEW 4:4; 1 CORINTHIANS 10:11. What do you think the is the meaning of the scriptures that say God is not the God of the dead but of the living *MATTHEW 22:32

So if all scripture applies to us and is written for our admonition let's look at what the scriptures say...

HEBREWS 10:26-38
[26], For if we (believers) sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (see HEBREWS 6:4-8)
[30], For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31], It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
[32], But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
[33], Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
[34], For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
[35], Cast not away therefore your confidence (speaking to believers), which hath great recompence of reward.
[36], For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
[37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
[38], Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

The scripture application and context is to believers drawing back to something that is not the Gospel of Christ. The application here is universal. If we draw back to anything that is not the gospel of Christ and continue to sin willfully after we receive a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of judgment.

There is no scripture that says we can continue in known unrepentant sin and enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Those who believe this believe the false Gospel of the father of lies first spoken to EVE in the garden of Eden *GENESIS 3:1-5.

Hope this helps
 
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redleghunter

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See therein lies the problem, the lie of calvinism. When one gets saved they still have freewill, the lie of calvinism is we become robots. Until we die we choose even St. Paul talked about this "My friends, if someone is caught in any kind of wrongdoing, those of you who are spiritual should set him right; but you must do it in a gentle way. And keep an eye on yourselves, so that you will not be tempted, too. " even St. Paul was not as bold to say it's a done deal while on earth. The idea that we can not stray is never Biblical nor in any of the Early Church Fathers
How is what you quoted related to “it’s not a done deal?” Didn’t Jesus say “It is Finished?” Or does Jesus require more work to save us?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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How is what you quoted related to “it’s not a done deal?” Didn’t Jesus say “It is Finished?” Or does Jesus require more work to save us?
Well you see, the receipt says "paid in full" .. but there are service fees in the fine print...
 
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redleghunter

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4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Judas right?
 
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redleghunter

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For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.
I’m glad you posted verse 7.

Only one soil is capable of drinking in the water. What the text does not say is the good soul becomes cursed soil.

Then he says:

9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. 11And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

13For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,14saying, “I WILL SURELY BLESS YOU AND I WILL SURELY MULTIPLY YOU.” 15And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. 16For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath givenas confirmation is an end of every dispute. 17In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, 18so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. 19This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, 20where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
 
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redleghunter

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Well you see, the receipt says "paid in full" .. but there are service fees in the fine print...
Yeah still trying to find that fine print in the text. :)
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I find the "you will lose your salvation" teaching is fearmongering.

1st John teaches that we have boldness on the day of judgment because in this world we are like Jesus. This is characterized by love being matured or made perfect within us.

1st John also teaches that the one who fears does not mature this way .

The fearmongering teaching method does not get the results of anyone having boldness on the day of judgment ... and that's bad news.
 
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A_Thinker

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We must work out our Salvation
Not like we must figure it out (God has already done that). And it can't be that we must work for our salvation ... for that goes against Paul's teaching in Ephesians (i.e. "not of works").

Rather, we must show forth the salvation that God has brought to life (i.e. birthed) within us.

Matthew 5:16 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

"Work it out" has a different connotation in today's world ... as we use the phrase colloquially ... rather than literally.
 
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1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

What I get from this passage in this context is a drastic attitude shift, instead of preaching because we're afraid everyone is going to hell, proclaim because we believe God for it, that being Salvation.
 
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