2 "Parousias" according to Partial Preterism......

Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
Statement of purpose:
Partial Preterism: Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the Advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero.
The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.
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What about these 2 parousias that Partial Preterists seem to believe in?

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end/consummation<4930> of the Age?
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James 5:8
be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye, that the Parousia<3952> of the Lord has-neared<1448>

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448>
be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,
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The 2 parousias at this site:

Partial Preterism at PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

70ad:
A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age
(Source: R.C. Sproul, Last Days)

Still future:
The Coming (parousia) of Christ
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history
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Some articles on that particular Greek word:

Israel P. Warren: The Parousia, A Critical Study of the Scripture Doctrines of Christ's Second Coming, His Reign as King ; The Resurrection of the Dead (1879) - The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

Daniel Harden: Overcoming Sproul’s Resurrection Obstacles (2007)
that when they gave these time statements, they knew just what was in close proximity. The full preterist view on the phrases parousia, the end of the age, and the day of the Lord follow the very same guidelines.
If there were more than one parousia, the New Testament would have been much clearer in detailing just which parousia was intended. No such qualifications are given. The lack of qualifications naturally lead to either (1) an intentional (or unintentional) confusion for the readers, or (2) the fact that no such qualification was needed, for there was only one parousia, end…

What’s more, Sproul states that the “final” coming will be universal in its scope and significance. Full preterists contend, as does Sproul elsewhere, that the parousia at A.D. 70 was indeed universal in significance, once and for all dispensing with the Old Covenant and consummating the New Covenant, thereby once and for all doing away with the distinction of “Jew” and “Gentile”. So the question must be asked of Sproul—is there a distinction anywhere in the Bible between the “universality” of the parousia at A.D. 70 and the “universality” of the “final” coming? How can such a distinction be made?
For above all else, nowhere in the New Testament is there any distinction made about which coming is referred to. Not once do we find any clarification, by Christ, Paul, Peter, or anybody else, of “this is not the final coming, but only the imminent parousia. The word “final”, for example, never appears in conjunction with a coming of Christ.

Indeed, if there were any clarification made in Scripture to distinguish different “comings”, it seems highly unlikely that dispensationalism would have evolved at all! But no, such a distinction made by Sproul in this paragraph is no-where to be found in the New Testament. In fact, in the Olivet discourse, where Sproul clearly applies Matt. 24:1-34 to the parousia, I would expect to see such a distinction made by Christ, if the latter part of Matt. 25 refers to the “final” coming that is different than the coming just mentioned. But no distinction is made. The discourse flows straight through without any perceivable change in topic.
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parousia70 said:

While I'm certain full preterists hold that these scriptures mean what I contend they do, none of them is a view EXCLUSIVE to full pretereism, as all of them are held by many, if not most, partial preterists as well.

As a Catholic, I personally subscribe to partial preterism, though I'm more of a "maximum" partial preterist than most Catholics I've met...
Not all, but most.

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Good post Parousia....... Are there any PP authors you like?

Some really fascinating reading on the "parousia" on this site. Makes me look at Preterism in a whole new light......

Israel P. Warren: The Parousia, A Critical Study of the Scripture Doctrines of Christ's Second Coming, His Reign as King ; The Resurrection of the Dead (1879) - The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

THE PAEOUSIA.
Chap. I. The Term and its Signification, 9
Chap. II. The N'ature of the Parousia, 17
Chap. III. The Time of the Parousia, 25

James Stuart Russell: The Parousia, A Careful Look at the New Testament Doctrine of the Lord’s Second Coming (1878)
TO TITUS :- Anticipation of the Parousia IN THE EPISTLE TO THE HEBREWS:- The Last Days already come The Aeons, Ages, or World-periods The World to come, or the new order The End, i.e., of the Age, or AEon The Promise of the Rest of God The End of the Ages Expectation of the Parousia The Parousia approaching The Parousia imminent The Parousia and the Old Testament saints The great Consummation near Nearness and finality of the Consummation Expectation of the Parousia IN THE EPISTLE OF ST. JAMES:- The Last Days come Nearness of the Parousia IN THE FIRST EPISTLE… (Search hits: 87 in body, 1 in title, 0 in categories, 0 in tags, 0 in other taxonomies, 0 in comments. Score: 5295.48)

See Also:

• High Praise for “The Parousia” – R.C. Sproul, Sr.: I can never read the New Testament again the same way I read it before reading The Parousia. I hope better scholars than I will continue to analyze and evaluate the content of J. Stuart Russell’s important work.
• 1887: Journal, Congregational Review of Russell’s Parousia (PDF)
• 1887: Journal, The Methodist Review of Russell’s Parousia (PDF)
• 1887: Journal, The Presbyterian Review of Russell’s Parousia (PDF)
• 1998: R.C. Sproul, The Last Days According to Jesus – The radical character of John’s baptism is also seen in this light. He called Jewish people to undergo this cleansing rite because their King is about to appear and they are defiled and unready to meet him. Consequently John calls the people to repent and be baptized. “The kingdom of heaven is at hand”.
• 2013: Todd Dennis, Church-State Relations and the Book of Revelation – The battle won at home, Russell used the Evangelical Alliance to bring reformation to nations abroad. He provided relief during the Irish famine, established churches in nations such as Switzerland and Germany, and was a founder of the free school movement. He even retraced the steps of his predecessors at Yarmouth by personally bringing the Evangelical Alliance’s vision of independence to American shores.
• 2013: Russell, R. Newton, S. Newton, Hill,‎ Dennis, The Annotated Parousia for Kindle: The Classic Study of New Testament Doctrine Regarding Christ’s Second Coming
• 2018: The Annotated Parousia by Russell for Kindle Readers – Can’t agree with every conclusion but well thought out and studied. I find myself in the same camp with only small differences. I recommend it to anyone interested in the book of Revelation and ‘The end times’.

PART I – THE PAROUSIA IN THE GOSPELS.

• THE PAROUSIA PREDICTED BY JOHN THE BAPTIST

The Teaching of our Lord Concerning the Parousia in the Synoptical Gospels:

• Prediction of Coming Wrath upon that Generation
• Further allusions to the Coming Wrath
• Impending fate of the Jewish nation (Parable of the Barren Fig-tree)
• The End of the Age, or close of the Jewish dispensation(Parables of Tares and Drag-net)
• The Coming of the Son of Man (the Parousia) in the Lifetime of the Apostles
• The Parousia to take place within the Lifetime of some of the Disciples
• The Coming of the Son of man certain and speedy (Parable of the Importunate Widow)
• The Reward of the Disciples in the Coming AEon, i.e. at the Parousia

Prophetic Intimations of the approaching Consummation of the Kingdom of God

i. Parable of the Pounds
ii. Lamentation of Jesus over Jerusalem
iii. Parable of the Wicked Husbandman
iv. Parable of the Marriage of the King’s Son
v. Woes denounced on the Scribes and Pharisees
vi. Lamentation (second) of Jesus over Jerusalem
vii. The Prophecy on the Mount of Olives

The Prophecy on the Mount Examined

I. Interrogatory of the Disciples
II. Our Lord’s Answer to the Disciples:-

(a) Events which more remotely were to precede the Consummation
(b) Further indications of the approaching doom of Jerusalem
(c) The Disciples warned against False Prophets
(d) Arrival of the ‘End,’ or the catastrophe of Jerusalem
(e) The Parousia to take place before the passing away of the Existing Generation
(f) Certainty of the Consummation, yet uncertainty of its precise date
(g) Suddenness of the Parousia, and calls to watchfulness
(h) The Disciples warned of the suddenness of the Parousia (Parable of the Master of the House)
(i) The Parousia a time of Judgment alike to the friends and the enemies of Christ (Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins)
(k) The Parousia a time of Judgment (Parable of the Talents)
(l) The Parousia a time of Judgment (Parable of the Sheep and Goats)

• Our Lord’s declaration before the High Priest
• Prediction of the Woes coming on Jerusalem
• Prayer of the Penitent Thief
• Apostolic Commission, the

THE PAROUSIA IN THE GOSPEL OF ST. JOHN.

• The Parousia and the Resurrection of the Dead
• The Resurrection, the Judgment, and the Last Day
• The Judgment of this World, and of the Prince of this World
• Christ’s Return (the Parousia) speedy
• St. John to live till the Parousia
• Summary of the Teaching of the Gospels respecting the Parousia

parousia70 said:

Dr Scott Hahn and James "Jimmy" Aiken come to mind.

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I like Scott Hahn!

I actually have a few threads concerning Titus and Jerusalem:

Titus sieges Jerusalem on Feast of Passover/Destroyer in Revelation
Matthew 24 Mount of Olives and Titus's 10th Legion on Mt Olives 70ad

And one on the Denari[Famine caused by Romans and Rebels] and 5 months [the time it took Titus to conquer Jerusalem]

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "a measure of grain/wheat a denari and three measures of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."

Revelation 9: Tormented 5 MONTHS and death fleeing 70ad

Same amount of time the flood covered the earth in Genesis:

Genesis 7:24
And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

Revelation 9:5 And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months
And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion/skorpiou <4651>, whenever it should be striking a man;

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
*snip*
.......The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers...........

..............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

Scott Hahn Study Archive @ PreteristArchive.com - The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

"Fall it did, as the Roman emperor Titus's armies laid siege to the city in the year A.D. 70. Siege brought on famine, pestilence, and strife, which we can sec in the devastations wrought by the four angelic horsemen of Revelation 6. and by the seven angelic trumpeters of Revelation 8-9. In a manner less symbolic and more horrifically graphic, we can sec these calamities described also in the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus. who was an eyewitness. Josephus describes Jerusalem so ravaged by famine that its mothers, mad with hunger, began to devour their own infants.
Passover, the Eucharist, and the heavenly liturgy, then, are two-edged swords. While the chalices of the covenant bring life to the faithful, thev mean certain death to those who reject the covenant. In the new covenant, as in the old.

Jesus Himself wept with love for Jerusalem, even as the town fathers plotted His execution. For these first Christians, the destruction of Jerusalem was cause for intense anxiety. Yet Jerusalem and the Temple were indeed passing away before their eyes. Christians needed reassurance. They required an explanation. They were desperate for a revelation from God.

Through John, God revealed His covenant judgment upon old Jerusalem. The city had called forth wrath by its infidelity, by crucifying the Son of (Sod and by persecuting the Church. Knowing this. Christians could sec the context of their own persecution, and could understand why they must no longer look to old Jerusalem for their help and salvation.

Now they must look to the new Jerusalem, which was, before John's eyes, descending from heaven. Where was it touching down? On Mount Zion. where Jesus had eaten His last Passover and instituted the Eucharist. Mount Zion, where the Holy Spirit had descended upon the Apostles at Pentecost. Mount Zion, where Christians till A.D. 70 met to celebrate the Eucharist—and where the Lamb stood with the faithful remnant of Israel (Rev 14:1), who were sealed against the impending destruction. The new Jerusalem came to earth, then as now, in the place where Christians celebrated the supper of the Lamb."

Jerusalem, it seems, is on trial. God appears as judge (20:11), assisted by angels who sit on twenty thrones (20:4). Throughout the Apocalypse, angels execute the sentence, too. precipitating the destruction of Jerusalem, along with its inhabitants and its Temple. John portrays this event in terms of a terrible Passover. Seven angels pour out the chalices of God's wrath, which issue in seven plagues. The emptying of the chalices (sometimes rendered "cups" or "bowls") is a liturgical action, a libation poured out upon the earth, as wine was poured upon ancient Israel's altar. In light of the Passover's fulfillment in the Eucharist, this imagery becomes all the more striking. The plagues take place in chapters 15-17 within a liturgical selling: the angels appear with harps, vested as priests in the heavenly Temple, singing the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb (ch. 15). This liturgy means death to God's enemies, yet salvation to His Church. Thus, the angels cry: "For men have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. It is their due!" (Rev 16:6).

Passover, the Eucharist, and the heavenly liturgy, then, are two-edged swords. While the chalices of the covenant bring life to the faithful, thev mean certain death to those who reject the covenant. In the new covenant, as in the old. God gives man the choice between life and death, blessing and curse (see Dt 30:19). To choose the covenant is to choose eternal life in God's family. To reject the new covenant in Christ's blood is to choose one's own death. Jerusalem made that choice, on Passover in a.d. 30. At the time of that Passover, Jesus predicted the end of the world in frightful terms and said, "Truly, this generation shall not pass away till all these things take place" (Mt 24:34). A generation to the ancients (in Greek, genea) was forty years. And forty years later, in A.D. 70, a world ended as Jerusalem fell."

mkgal1 said:

I just discovered that the word "parousia" is used by Paul in Philippians 2:12. It merely means "presence" in that context. Just pointing that out

not as in my presence only - παρουσίᾳ (parousia) 3952: a presence, a coming - from the pres. part. of pareimi


Philippians 2:12 Lexicon: So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

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Hello mkgal.....
The word "parousia<3952> is a years long study of mine.
Note this thread I created back in 2008. Guess it got closed for lack of interest?

What is the "Parousia" in the New Testament
April 15, 2008
Thread Status:Not open for further replies.

I was studying on the translation of Luke 15 concerning the "Prodigal Son", when the word for "substances/good" stuck out at me.

The word "ousia" means goods/substances which is used only twice in the NT, in Luke 16. The greek word "parousia" also uses that root word.

It would appears parousia could symbolize "Father of Substances" perhaps.

I put both the english transliteration and the greek form of the words here. Just thought it was interesting. Thoughts?

http://www.talk-grace.com/index.php

3776. ousia oo-see'-ah from the feminine of 5607; substance, i.e. property (possessions):--goods, substance.
3962. pater pat-ayr' apparently a primary word; a "father" (literally or figuratively, near or more remote):--father, parent.
3952. parousia par-oo-see'-ah from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return;

3776 ousia/ousiaV (Strong's 3776) occurs 2 times in 2 verses:

3962 pater/ pathr <3962> (Strong's 3962) occurs 419 times in 372 verses:

3952 parousia/parousiaV (Strong's 3952) occurs 24 times in 24 verses:

Matthew 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence/parousiaV <3952>, and of the full end/sunteleiaV <4930> of the age/aiwnoV <165>?'

Luke 15:12 and the younger of them said to the father, 'Father, give me the portion/meroV <3313> of the substance/ousiaV <3776> falling/epiballon <1911> to [me]', and he divided to them the living.

Matthew 5:48 ye shall therefore be perfect/teleioi <5046>, as the Father/pathr <3962> of you who [is] in the heavens is perfect/teleioV <5046>.
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Verses it is used in:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Parousia <3952>

παρουσία — 6x
parousiaV <3952>
Parsing: Genitive Feminine Singular

Matthew 24:3;
Philippians 1:26;
2 Thessalonians 2:1,8;
James 5:7
2 Peter 3:4
======================
παρουσίαν — 3x
Parsing: Accusative Feminine Singular

1Tthessalonians 4:15
2 Peter 1:16
2 Peter 3:12
=================
παρουσία — 6x
Parsing: Nominative Feminine Singular

Matthew 24:27, 37, 39;
2 Corinthians 10:10;
2 Thessalonians 2:9;
James 5:8
==================
παρουσίᾳ — 9x
Parsing: Dative Feminine Singular

1 Corinthians 15:23
1 Corinthians 16:17
2 Corinthians 7:6, 7
Philippians 2:12
1 Thessalonians 2:19
1 Thessalonians 3:13
1 Thessalonians 5:23
1 John 2:28

yeshuaslavejeff said:

It seems to me quite clear that most of the motives and reasons and practices and teachings and purposes that are the reason for and/or that go along with these topis are

UN- Biblical.

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[/QUOTE]

parousia70 said:

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that Jesus parousia would occur within the lifetime of His apostles.
(Matt 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32,Matt 16:28, Luke 9:27,Matt 10:23)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that all things written would be fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
(Luke 21:20-22)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that as it was in Noah's day, So would the coming of the Son of Man be. The wicked would be taken in Judgement, and the rightesous would be "left behind" on earth.
(Matt 24:37-41)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that salvatiion was not complete until Christ returned.
(Hebrews 9:28)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that The way to heaven was not opened until the Temple was destroyed.
(Hebrews 9:8)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that on the "new earth" Birth, death, ageing and sinners would continue to exist.(Isaiah 65:17-21, Revelation 21 & 22)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that Christ is an invisible King, He was to come "in His kingdom" and that the coming of His kingdom would be "unobservable"
(1Timothy 1:17, Luke 17:20)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that Christ, Lord of the Vineyard, personally came back and took the kingdom from the Jews, destroying them at that time, and gave it to the church, who is the holy nation that bears it's fruits.
(Matt 21:33-43, 1Peter 2:9)

The Bible,and therefore preterism, teaches that the Church is the "Israel of God" and the only heir to the promise of Abraham. (Gal 6:16)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the true inheritance of Abraham is not earthly, but the better country of Heaven. (Hebrews 11:16, 1 Peter 1:4)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, is true and correct.

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Yes......long live Preterism

mkgal1 said:

I'm just now beginning to look into what I believe was completed at the first Parousia (in the first century) and what still remains in our future.

I am reading this article on Christian Courier : Facts About the Second Coming of Christ

The author of that article has ALL these passages as a future Parousia, but I see them this way (as of right now):

Job felt there would be a time of vindication for him by his “Redeemer” at some point after his flesh had disintegrated (19:25-27), though he had no precise understanding of that Redeemer from his ancient vantage point. - I believe that was the first century judgement against Jerusalem and translation of souls in Sheol.

In a messianic discourse, David foretold of an ultimate retribution upon Jehovah’s enemies (Psa. 2:9; 110:1). ~ Also the first century judgement against Jerusalem and translation of the souls in Sheol.

Isaiah spoke of the time when every knee would bow and every tongue would swear allegiance to God (Is. 45:23; cf. Rom. 14:11). ~ Future

Daniel prophesied of a future bodily resurrection (Dan. 12:2-3). These events are associated with the Savior’s second coming. ~ Future. Edited: Also the first century judgement against Jerusalem.​

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Good post mkgal.
Do you agree with a lot of the views of Partial Preterism concerning much of the Olivet Disourse and much of Revelation was fulfilled in the 1st century?

Partial Preterist Only - A parousia and judgement on 70ad Jerusalem Revelation 18-19