Is "free will" really that important?

INeedGrace said:

It is said that God wants us to freely choose Him. "God doesn't want robots" is the phrase often bandied about. But often the same people who say this, touting the importance of "free will" also believe that babies, young children and the mentally challenged (if they die) will go to heaven, all of them without question. How does that fit in with the importance of "free will?" If those above go to heaven automatically, then how important really is "free will?"

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I'm going to decide which church you go to, no need for questions.

Is free will important?

INeedGrace said:

It is said that God wants us to freely choose Him. "God doesn't want robots" is the phrase often bandied about. But often the same people who say this, touting the importance of "free will" also believe that babies, young children and the mentally challenged (if they die) will go to heaven, all of them without question. How does that fit in with the importance of "free will?" If those above go to heaven automatically, then how important really is "free will?"

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I think when people say "free will," what they really mean is to be "able to make conscious choices." Where the real disagreement lies is in the idea that we have a will free from sin and the fall, that we can willingly choose to follow Jesus Christ, ignoring the fact that Scripture says that we are enslaved to our desires and are naturally opposed to God. We are free to make choices, but we don't want to by nature choose that which is good for our souls. We naturally want to stay in the darkness and practice in the darkness. We are totally corrupted in our minds, in our hearts, and in our soul from the fall that our thinking, our affections, and our choices are biased toward sin and rebellion. The only people that had ever been born/created with a will free from sin is Adam, Eve, and the Lord Jesus. However, Adam and Eve fell from their original righteousness and innocence, and became morally corrupt in their being. We see that their first son murders his younger brother out of envy. Where did that come from if he was born free from sin? It is in his nature already, stemmed from his first parents who fell.

INeedGrace said:

That doesn't address the context in which I framed my question.

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Okay, in terms of a relationship with God in which we are born again, that makes us like a child of God. So is it really that important that Children of Parents have free will?

Free will may have more to do with sanctification (towards the redemption) than the beginning of salvation, but it's related.

INeedGrace said:

It is said that God wants us to freely choose Him. "God doesn't want robots" is the phrase often bandied about. But often the same people who say this, touting the importance of "free will" also believe that babies, young children and the mentally challenged (if they die) will go to heaven, all of them without question. How does that fit in with the importance of "free will?" If those above go to heaven automatically, then how important really is "free will?"

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However, regarding human responsibility and divine sovereignty, they are more than compatible. Did the Babylonians know that God was using them to punish Israel? No, not until after the fact. But that is divine sovereignty using the Babylonians as agents of his divine purposes, while at the same time leaving them to perform that which was in their own hearts, freely and willingly. Their eyes were set on domination, but with God it was punishment for Israel's continual backsliding.

INeedGrace said:

How important is free will to God? For His creatures to choose to accept His salvation, since there is an entire class of humans who are said to go to heaven without the exercise of "free will."

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I don't believe that last sentence. You cannot enter into the kingdom without participating in the blood, and that only through faith. It is in my conviction that God can still regenerate and draw certain individuals that you mentioned to a saving knowledge and faith in Jesus Christ in a way different than the ordinary means. Infants who die in the womb, if God saves them, it is through a secret inward work in their hearts and a special revelation of who Christ is that they may take hold by faith and receive eternal life. How do we know this? We don't.

INeedGrace said:

It is said that God wants us to freely choose Him. "God doesn't want robots" is the phrase often bandied about. But often the same people who say this, touting the importance of "free will" also believe that babies, young children and the mentally challenged (if they die) will go to heaven, all of them without question. How does that fit in with the importance of "free will?" If those above go to heaven automatically, then how important really is "free will?"

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I think that if you asked God that question He would say, "What is that to you? Follow my Son Jesus."

INeedGrace said:

how important really is "free will?

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It's quite important...theologically speaking.

The appearance of free will is more important than the reality of free will. Humans lack the ability to confirm if we have free will or not.

INeedGrace said:

It is said that God wants us to freely choose Him. "God doesn't want robots" is the phrase often bandied about. But often the same people who say this, touting the importance of "free will" also believe that babies, young children and the mentally challenged (if they die) will go to heaven, all of them without question. How does that fit in with the importance of "free will?" If those above go to heaven automatically, then how important really is "free will?"

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The theological importance of free will ... or free moral agency ... or the ability to make choices ... resides in the conscious decision to sin, and thereby, responsibility for the guilt of sin. If we have "free will" then we choose to sin, and our sin is our own fault -- and we are responsible for the consequences of our sin. If, on the other hand, we have no free will, and we just do what God has programmed us to do, then we are no more responsible for our sin than a drone or robot is responsible for their actions.

However, I believe that both "free will" and the Calvinistic alternative of non-autonomy are inaccurate.

If we had free will, we could choose to sin all we want, and choose not believe, and still choose not pay the consequences of our sin. The poor person could simply "choose" to be rich. This is not reality. Often, we don't get to make all of our choices. But we do get to make some of our choices.

When it comes to salvation, we are given two, distinct choices. This binary choice is: choose life or choose death. Choose the blessing or the curse.


God has given the choice structure and meaning. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the LIFE." He was telling us -- if you want to choose life, then choose to believe the good news about Me.

INeedGrace said:

It is said that God wants us to freely choose Him. "God doesn't want robots" is the phrase often bandied about. But often the same people who say this, touting the importance of "free will" also believe that babies, young children and the mentally challenged (if they die) will go to heaven, all of them without question. How does that fit in with the importance of "free will?" If those above go to heaven automatically, then how important really is "free will?"

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Good question

All major adults have an earthly mission statement of “Loving God (and secondly Loving others) with all our heart, soul, mind and energy. But to do that we first must obtain Godly type Love which requires a free will choice to accept God’s Love (charity) in the form of forgiveness (much more can be said).

People who never develop to the point of being able to accept God’s help/Love/Charity would seem to go to heaven without Godly type Love, but have a very wonderful child for parent type Love. It does not seem possible to obtain Godly type Love in heaven, so these without Godly type Love will have to be protected and preserved by those with Godly type Love (which could be our wonderful task in heaven).

INeedGrace said:

It is said that God wants us to freely choose Him. "God doesn't want robots" is the phrase often bandied about. But often the same people who say this, touting the importance of "free will" also believe that babies, young children and the mentally challenged (if they die) will go to heaven, all of them without question. How does that fit in with the importance of "free will?" If those above go to heaven automatically, then how important really is "free will?"

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Crucially important to non-babies and non-mentally challenged; because they are responsible for how they use it.

INeedGrace said: ↑
How important is free will to God? For His creatures to choose to accept His salvation, since there is an entire class of humans who are said to go to heaven without the exercise of "free will."

Jonaitis said:

I don't believe that last sentence. You cannot enter into the kingdom without participating in the blood, and that only through faith.

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Since Jesus Christ died for everyone, (Heb 2:9, 2 Cor 5:14,15, etc), His death paid for all sin. Those who die before understanding they are sinners and Christ died for them, will go to heaven based on the fact that His death paid for their sins.

Would it be fair of God to send all those who never reached the conscious understanding that they are sinners and that Christ for their sins to hell? Of course not.

It is in my conviction that God can still regenerate and draw certain individuals that you mentioned to a saving knowledge and faith in Jesus Christ in a way different than the ordinary means. Infants who die in the womb, if God saves them, it is through a secret inward work in their hearts and a special revelation of who Christ is that they may take hold by faith and receive eternal life. How do we know this? We don't.

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What we do know is that Christ died for everyone. But until a person understands that He did and that He promises eternal life for those who believe in Him, they are still covered by Christ's redemptive work on the cross.

There is no evidence from Scripture that God saves babies in a "different way than the ordinary means". That's speculation.

INeedGrace said:

It is said that God wants us to freely choose Him. "God doesn't want robots" is the phrase often bandied about. But often the same people who say this, touting the importance of "free will" also believe that babies, young children and the mentally challenged (if they die) will go to heaven, all of them without question. How does that fit in with the importance of "free will?" If those above go to heaven automatically, then how important really is "free will?"

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That's like asking whether culpability is important when it comes to deciding one's fate, to which I would respond Well Duh?