IS SALVATION CONDTIONAL WITH FREE WILL AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BELIEVE?

MDC · Aug 1, 2019

Jonaitis said:
The language you use, though, sounds as if you're saying we must produce fruit to maintain our salvation. Jesus said that fruit is product of a tree, it doesn't make the tree what it is. If a tree bears apples, then it is an apple tree. If it bears pears, then it is a pear tree. The fruit show what kind of tree that it is. It would be impossible for a Christian to bear fruit completely different than its own nature. If we are compared to trees, then Christians produce works of righteousness to show what kind of people we are. Only professors of a false faith will produce fake righteousness, but their true nature will eventually show.

I believe he is saying ones fruit “maintains” ones salvation.. as he holds to the doctrine that eternal life in Christ can be lost

LoveGodsWord · Aug 1, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
I think you covered it very well.

BTW, you do know me. I'm 1stcenturyLady. I had computer problems and none of my forum sites recognized my login, so had to start over with a new name. And I love cats, so changed Avatars. But my new batch of baby raccoons this year are getting to know me, so I am able to walk among them.

Arr thats right! I forgot. Nice to see you again. Sorry I have spoken for a while. :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Aug 1, 2019

MDC said:
I believe he is saying ones fruit “maintains” ones salvation.. as he holds to the doctrine that eternal life in Christ can be lost

Actually no I am not. We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. We can do nothing without Jesus *JOHN 15:1-10 because all we can do without JESUS is sin *MATTHEW 9:12-13. Our salvation is from sin not to continue in it but this salvation is condtional on believing and continuing in God's Word *JOHN 8:31-36. As we believe Gods Word then God's Spirit works in us and changes our hearts so we can follow God's Word *PHILIPPIANS 2:13. This is the fruit of genuine faith *MATTHEW 7:16-23; JAMES 2:18-20; 26 as we believe and follow God's Word.

CharismaticLady · Aug 1, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Arr thats right! I forgot. Nice to see you again. Sorry I have spoken for a while.

I have grown very thankful for my SDA foundation. It was great for where I am today. It certainly kept me free from the doctrines of demons denominations out there teaching defeatism.

MDC · Aug 1, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Actually no I am not. We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. We can do nothing without Jesus *JOHN 15:1-10 because all we can do without JESUS is sin *MATTHEW 9:12-13. Our salvation is from sin not to continue in it but this salvation is condtional *JOHN 8:31-36. As we believe Gods Word then God's Spirit works in us and changes our hearts so we can follow God's Word *PHILIPPIANS 2:13. This is the fruit of genuine faith *MATTHEW 7:16-23; JAMES 2:18-20; 26 as we believe and follow God's Word.

And by this grace eternal life has been merited and conditioned in Christ alone.. through faith and that not of ourselves. If you actually believed this then you wouldn’t believe salvation could be lost. Do you believe what Jonaitis said in post 13?

Gideons300 · Aug 1, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi brother Gideon, nice post. You pose a lot of interesting questions here. How do you see what is being taught in the churches today verses what God's Word actually teaches? I see the scriptures showing that God has his people in every Church but the hour is coming and now is that God is calling his people out from following man made traditions back to the Word of God.

Blessings and thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

That is an excellent question. I am not sure I have an excellent answer, LOL. Well, actually it is an excellent answer, just not a popular one.

We for the most part have the core teachings down, like a skeleton supports a body. However, the skeleton is not life.
I love good doctrine, but good doctrine does not keep you warm on cold, lonely nights. Nor does it substitute for wielding our sword and hoisting our shield when the battle comes our way.

We have become content with our "doctrinal correctness", and being healed only slightly, saying 'peace, peace' when in truth it is far from us. What do we lack? LIFE. The life of Jesus living inside us, causing us to will AND to do of His good pleasure.

What are we? Dry, and perhaps theologically correct, bones. Can these bones live? You bet, but we are not going to put a patch on our theology to get a few more miles on it.

New wine must go in.... new wineskins.

There is a HUGE secret to be discovered there. Can our modern day organized church become pliable enough to let God in and rule and reign over us? Can our worship of doctrine bow the knee to the God who wants to live inside us? With God, all things are possible, but, then again, some things are more possible than others, lol.

blessings,

Gideon

redleghunter · Aug 1, 2019

eleos1954 said:
and how is faith demonstrated

Ephesians 2: NASB

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Blade · Aug 1, 2019

John 3 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" Rom 10 9-10 starts with if. That if is a simple choice.

"IS SALVATION CONDITIONAL"
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." are are are.

Who so ever calls on the name of the lord shall be saved. Saved "not of your selfs". So its a gift ONLY from GOD. He gives it.. and some think they themselfs that some still call them selfs "sinners" have it within them selfs some means to keep this GIFT? Whats this gift? Was not a NEW man created? How in the world can you undo that? A GOD created something NEW.. which after GOD is created in righteousness and true holiness.

So we could not save our selfs.. yet.. after born again.. NOW we can save our selfs by? GOOD WORKS? Theres a truth in that..yet not. Fruits. All good things come from God. ANY good we do can do .. hello its not us its HIM

eleos1954 · Aug 1, 2019

redleghunter said:
Ephesians 2: NASB

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

so are you saying good works is how our faith is demonstrated?

LoveGodsWord · Aug 1, 2019

MDC said:
And by this grace eternal life has been merited and conditioned in Christ alone.. through faith and that not of ourselves. If you actually believed this then you wouldn’t believe salvation could be lost. Do you believe what Jonaitis said in post 13?

Hello MDC, I am just wondering if you read the post you are quoting from and if you did what do you think this post is saying? Just asking for clarification in case you misunderstood what it was you were quoting from. It is God's Word not mine that says all through the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures that salvation can be lost because receiving God's blessings and promises are condtional on believing and following God's Word. These are Gods' Word not mine. In the post # 13 of Jonaitis was a misunderstanding of what I was posting in the OP. Clarification as to what I was posting was provided in post # 17 linked.

Now as to your claims here in relation to EPHESIANS 2:8-9 that I provided earlier you stated...

MDC said:
If you actually believed this then you wouldn’t believe salvation could be lost.

Of course I believe these scriptures. That is why I posted them. I also posted from the same post that salvation is God's Work in us EPHESIANS 2:8-9; PHILIPPIANS 2:13 as we believe God's Word. Note once again this is conditional on us believing and following God's Word as shown in the OP. The scriptures teach that if we do not believe and follow God's Word we have no part in God's promises. EPHESIANS 2:8-9 does not say we cannot lose salvation it says it is a gift of God and there is nothing that we can do to earn it. If we could not lose salvation than there would be no warnings about losing salvation all through the old and new testament scriptures.

SCRIPTURE WARNINGS ABOUT LOSING SALVATION

Hope this helps.

Thanks for sharing.

PaulCyp1 · Aug 1, 2019

Well of course salvation is "conditional". Otherwise, every human being would be saved. It is conditional upon truly believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and as the Savior, and living as though we believe in Him. Claiming to "believe in" Jesus while living a worldly, sinful life is meaningless. Even atheists believe He existed.

MDC · Aug 1, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello MDC, I am just wondering if you read the post you are quoting from and if you did what do you think this post is saying? Just asking for clarification in case you misunderstood what it was you were quoting from. It is God's Word not mine that says all through the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures that salvation can be lost because receiving God's blessings and promises are condtional on believing and following God's Word. These are Gods' Word not mine. In the post # 13 of Jonaitis was a misunderstanding of what I was posting in the OP. Clarification as to what I was posting was provided in post # 17 linked.
Now as to your claims here in relation to EPHESIANS 2:8-9 that I provided earlier you stated...

Of course I believe these scriptures. That is why I posted them. I also posted from the same post that salvation is God's Work in us EPHESIANS 2:8-9; PHILIPPIANS 2:13 as we believe God's Word. Note once again this is conditional on us believing and following God's Word as shown in the OP. The scriptures teach that if we do not believe and follow God's Word we have no part in God's promises. EPHESIANS 2:8-9 does not say we cannot lose salvation it says it is a gift of God and there is nothing that we can do to earn it.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for sharing.

It’s saying those who have been saved by Gods grace in Christ will automatically produce fruit of that being saved. As a tree is known by its fruit. By nature via regeneration, a believer will produce works of righteousness in Christ. Ephesians 2:10. And by Gods grace and power in Christ a believer will endure till the end by faith. As Christ will lose none of His sheep. I think you believe the complete opposite of Ephesians 2: 8-10. As you believe ones works are conditions to stay and maintain ones salvation status. Christ’s righteousness and works of obedience forms the basis for salvation apart from our works.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 1, 2019

MDC said:
It’s saying those who have been saved by Gods grace in Christ will automatically produce fruit of that being saved. As a tree is known by its fruit. By nature via regeneration, a believer will produce works of righteousness in Christ. Ephesians 2:10. And by Gods grace and power in Christ a believer will endure till the end by faith. As Christ will lose none of His sheep.

Absolutely I have posted nothing differently! :oldthumbsup:

Now who are God's Sheep?

MDC said:
I think you believe the complete opposite of Ephesians 2: 8-10. As you believe ones works are conditions to stay and maintain ones salvation status. Christ’s righteousness and works of obedience forms the basis for salvation apart from our works.

As posted earlier so you are not confused in the future; I believe; We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. As James says If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and Jesus says, if our tree has no fruit it will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. Jesus also says you shall know them by their fruits *MATTHEW 7:16-20; JOHN 15:1-10

Now if I have posted the opposite of what you are claiming why are you pretending I am believing and saying things I have never said or believe?

Hope this helps

St_Worm2 · Aug 1, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
I believe; We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD.

Hi LoveGodsWord, for clarity's sake, what's the difference between walking in OBEDIENCE to God's LAW and choosing to FOLLOW His WORD?

Thanks!

--David

Maria Billingsley · Aug 1, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
IS SALVATION CONDTIONAL AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BELIEVE?

Hi all, just wanting to hear your thoughts, as I have been reading some scriptures of late all through the OLD and NEW Testament that suggest that the fruit of our faith in God's Word determines what we do and making salvation condtional on both BELIEVING what God says and following what God says.

“IF” SHOWS SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL ON BOTH BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING (FRUIT) GOD'S WORD

OLD TESTAMENT (Not definitive)

“IF” (Hebrew) *H518; אם;'im; A primitive particle; used very widely as demonstrative, lo !; interrogitive, whether ?; or conditional, if, although ; also Oh that !, when ; hence as a negative, not: - (and, can-, doubtless, if, that) (not), + but, either, + except, + more (-over if, than), neither, nevertheless, nor, oh that, or, + save (only, -ing), seeing, since, sith, + surely (no more, none, not), though, + of a truth, + unless, + verily, when, whereas, whether, while, + yet.

We must do well according to Gods' Word (believe and follow) in order to be accepted...

GENESIS 4:7 IF (conditional) you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And to you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.

Consequences for not believing and following...

GENESIS 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for you, and you shall live: and IF (conditional) you restore her not, know you that you shall surely die, you, and all that are yours.

EXODUS 4:23 And I say to you, let my son go, that he may serve me: and IF (conditional) you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your son, even your firstborn.

Blessings for believing and following...

EXODUS 15:26 And said, IF (conditional) you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and will do that which is right in his sight, and will give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases on you, which I have brought on the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals you.

LEVITICUS 26:3-5 [3], IF (conditional) you walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; [4] THEN I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. [5], And your threshing shall reach to the vintage, and the vintage shall reach to the sowing time: and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

LEVITICUS 26:14-18 [14], But IF (conditional) you will not listen to me, and will not do all these commandments; [15] And IF (conditional) you shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that you will not do all my commandments, but that you break my covenant: [16], I also will do this to you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. [17], And I will set my face against you, and you shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and you shall flee when none pursues you. [18], And IF (conditional) you will not yet for all this listen to me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

There are too mant more to write so may stop here for the Old Testament scriptures and maybe post some more latter.

..............

NEW TESTAMENT (not definitive)

“IF” (Greek) *G1437; אםἐάν; ean; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty : - before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-) soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, [who-] so (-ever)., See G3361.

God's forgiveness is conditional...

I JOHN 1:9 [9], IF (conditional) we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

MATTHEW 6:14-15 [14], For IF (conditional) you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15], But IF (conditional) you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Being a disciple...

MATTHEW 16:24 Then said Jesus to his disciples, IF (conditional) any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

MATTHEW 19:16-19 [16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I DO, that I may have eternal life? [17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF (conditional) you will enter into life, keep the commandments. [18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, [19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

JOHN 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: IF (conditional) any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

JOHN 8:24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for IF (conditional) you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF (conditional) you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

JOHN 8:39 They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, IF you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

JOHN 8:51 Truly, truly, I say to you, IF (conditional) a man keeps my saying, he shall never see death.

JOHN 9:31 Now we know that God hears not sinners: but IF (conditional) any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears.

JOHN 14:15 IF (conditional) you love me, keep my commandments.

JOHN 15:10 IF (conditional) you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

JOHN 15:14 You are my friends, IF (conditional) you do whatever I command you.

JOHN 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, IF (conditional) a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our stay with him.

JOHN 15:6-7 [6], IF (conditional) a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [7], IF (conditional) you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.

Ok once again too many to list and may post some more latter..

............

QUESTIONS

Q1 What does it mean to believe in God?
Q2 What is saving faith?
Q2 Is salvation condtional on BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word or just believing it?

Blessings

It is the restoration of our relationship with the Father through the work of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. In order to receive the restoration, one must believe that God came in the flesh to accomplish the gift of restoration. From there, it is in the hands of the Holy Spirit that will change the old man into the new. Making him worthy to stand in front of the Father with our Advocate Jesus Christ of Nazareth. LOVE is the way through repentance.
Blessings

Oldmantook · Aug 1, 2019

Jonaitis said:
Salvation was conditional on the part of the Lord Jesus, we reap the benefits of his work.

Sorry but quoting a human does not

Albion said:
Notice that the OT quotes/verses generally carry out your thesis but,by and large, the NT ones do not.

They include the IFs but the message is not, as most of the OT ones are, comments about do this and you will get that or if you don't do this, then you won't.

This is not surprising in that,in the OT,man was stuck with keeping the Law, but as no one can be successful at that, a Savior was sent so that we are no longer dependent upon earning our way to salvation.

Sorry but you have to reconcile Rom 8:13 with what you contend. The little word IF indicates a condition.

Jonaitis · Aug 1, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Sorry but quoting a human does not

Which human was that?

Oldmantook · Aug 1, 2019

Sorry, got my posts mixed up. Plz disregard.

FutureAndAHope · Aug 1, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
IS SALVATION CONDTIONAL AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BELIEVE?

Hi all, just wanting to hear your thoughts, as I have been reading some scriptures of late all through the OLD and NEW Testament that suggest that the fruit of our faith in God's Word determines what we do and making salvation condtional on both BELIEVING what God says and following what God says.

“IF” SHOWS SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL ON BOTH BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING (FRUIT) GOD'S WORD

OLD TESTAMENT (Not definitive)

“IF” (Hebrew) *H518; אם;'im; A primitive particle; used very widely as demonstrative, lo !; interrogitive, whether ?; or conditional, if, although ; also Oh that !, when ; hence as a negative, not: - (and, can-, doubtless, if, that) (not), + but, either, + except, + more (-over if, than), neither, nevertheless, nor, oh that, or, + save (only, -ing), seeing, since, sith, + surely (no more, none, not), though, + of a truth, + unless, + verily, when, whereas, whether, while, + yet.

We must do well according to Gods' Word (believe and follow) in order to be accepted...

GENESIS 4:7 IF (conditional) you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And to you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.

Consequences for not believing and following...

GENESIS 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for you, and you shall live: and IF (conditional) you restore her not, know you that you shall surely die, you, and all that are yours.

EXODUS 4:23 And I say to you, let my son go, that he may serve me: and IF (conditional) you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your son, even your firstborn.

Blessings for believing and following...

EXODUS 15:26 And said, IF (conditional) you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and will do that which is right in his sight, and will give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases on you, which I have brought on the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals you.

LEVITICUS 26:3-5 [3], IF (conditional) you walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; [4] THEN I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. [5], And your threshing shall reach to the vintage, and the vintage shall reach to the sowing time: and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

LEVITICUS 26:14-18 [14], But IF (conditional) you will not listen to me, and will not do all these commandments; [15] And IF (conditional) you shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that you will not do all my commandments, but that you break my covenant: [16], I also will do this to you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. [17], And I will set my face against you, and you shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and you shall flee when none pursues you. [18], And IF (conditional) you will not yet for all this listen to me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

There are too mant more to write so may stop here for the Old Testament scriptures and maybe post some more latter.

..............

NEW TESTAMENT (not definitive)

“IF” (Greek) *G1437; אםἐάν; ean; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty : - before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-) soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, [who-] so (-ever)., See G3361.

God's forgiveness is conditional...

I JOHN 1:9 [9], IF (conditional) we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

MATTHEW 6:14-15 [14], For IF (conditional) you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15], But IF (conditional) you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Being a disciple...

MATTHEW 16:24 Then said Jesus to his disciples, IF (conditional) any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

MATTHEW 19:16-19 [16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I DO, that I may have eternal life? [17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF (conditional) you will enter into life, keep the commandments. [18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, [19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

JOHN 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: IF (conditional) any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

JOHN 8:24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for IF (conditional) you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF (conditional) you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

JOHN 8:39 They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, IF you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

JOHN 8:51 Truly, truly, I say to you, IF (conditional) a man keeps my saying, he shall never see death.

JOHN 9:31 Now we know that God hears not sinners: but IF (conditional) any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears.

JOHN 14:15 IF (conditional) you love me, keep my commandments.

JOHN 15:10 IF (conditional) you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

JOHN 15:14 You are my friends, IF (conditional) you do whatever I command you.

JOHN 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, IF (conditional) a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our stay with him.

JOHN 15:6-7 [6], IF (conditional) a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [7], IF (conditional) you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.

Ok once again too many to list and may post some more latter..

............

QUESTIONS

Q1 What does it mean to believe in God?
Q2 What is saving faith?
Q2 Is salvation condtional on BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word or just believing it?

Blessings

This is a topic that sits on a sea saw, there is a balance in the middle. If you go the side of saying The Law justifies you, then that is wrong. If you go the side of saying only faith with no obedience saves you (i.e. you can do what you want with no consequence) that is wrong too.

I don't have the time to look up all the scriptures, so I will just paraphrase.

a) A person is saved while they have faith in Jesus death and resurrection to pay for their sins. That is saving faith. Apart from works of the law. No one can obey the law, or the Holy Spirit to the level Jesus did, no one can save themselves, only faith saves.
b) A person who refuses to obey Jesus however is on shaky ground, because sin has a blinding effect, sin covers our eyes so to speak, to the point that a person who enjoys their sin, with an unrepentant heart, will become blind to the truth, and may well stop believing. This is a principal in God's word, and should spur us on to good deeds.

Guojing · Aug 1, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
IS SALVATION CONDTIONAL AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BELIEVE?

QUESTIONS

Q1 What does it mean to believe in God?
Q2 What is saving faith?
Q2 Is salvation condtional on BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word or just believing it?

Blessings

I can imagine two types of Jews on the Passover night in Egypt.

Some put their trust in the lamb blood, and just relax and enjoy the night, confident that it is sufficient.

Other Jews are more paranoid and try to help the blood with their works, praying fasting singing non stop to God.

In the end both houses first born are still saved because the blood at their doorpost is sufficient.

That is how I view this never ending argument about faith alone or faith and works for salvation.

IS SALVATION CONDTIONAL WITH FREE WILL AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BELIEVE?

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Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

Thank You Jesus!

Veteran

God is Love

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Simul Justus et Peccator

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Soli Deo Gloria

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Just me

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