pitabread

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Because He's patient with us.

That's an unsupported assertion. I was hoping for something a bit more meaty.

I can see the question for ‘biological evolution’ being ‘how,’ but it seems to me the more relevant question for ‘creation’...is ‘why.’ The fact that it is ‘creation’ by God puts the ‘how’ out of the need-to-know category.

Do you accept evolution as the explanation for "how" then?

Because that appears to be how the diversity of life came to be on this planet.
 
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inquiring mind

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Well are you interpreting it literally or not?
I interpret the Bible in the way it is communicated to me.

If you believe fruit trees arrived after aquatic life (which is what the fossil record shows) then that's a non-literal interpretation.
I'll go with the Genesis account... you know how piecemeal the fossil record is, and scientists are always finding something older than they thought possible.
 
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pitabread

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I interpret the Bible in the way it is communicated to me.

Vague response is vague. Can you try to be more specific?

You appear to be interpreting it non-literally, so I'm not sure why you can't just affirm that.

I'll go with the Genesis account... you know how piecemeal the fossil record is, and scientists are always finding something older than they thought possible.

Then you believe that fruit trees and birds came before land animals?

Since that's not what the fossil record shows this means the fossil record doesn't support the Biblical chronology in Genesis.
 
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Then you believe that fruit trees and birds came before land animals?
I believe what the Bible says, yes.

Since that's not what the fossil record shows this means the fossil record doesn't support the Biblical chronology in Genesis.
Evidently. The fossil record, as amazing as it is (yet still piecemeal), proves to be like anything else when used for the purpose of contradicting the Bible... a leaky vessel.
 
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Speedwell

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I believe what the Bible says, yes.


Evidently. The fossil record, as amazing as it is (yet still piecemeal), proves to be like anything else when used for the purpose of contradicting the Bible... a leaky vessel.
It's not being used for that purpose. It happens to contradict a reading of the Bible favored by certain Protestant sects who, if they hadn't made such an issue of it, would probably have just been ignored.
 
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Vague response is vague. Can you try to be more specific?
You appear to be interpreting it non-literally, so I'm not sure why you can't just affirm that.


As I said before, I believe what the Bible communicates to me, and as for interpretation and details:
I just don't propose to know God's details and time representations in the process, literal or otherwise.
 
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xianghua

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It's completely relevant. You can't compare two different things of fundamentally different structural makeup and then pretend they are the same thing.

yes i can if they both share the same trait. in this case is ic systems and we can even test it by removing parts.



You do not appear to know what the scientific method is.

the scientific method use testing and experiments. we can test the claim of design and ic system but we cant test evolutionery ideas. thus evolution isnt scientific as i already proved here:

Why evolution isn't scientific
 
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Ophiolite

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yes i can if they both share the same trait. in this case is ic systems and we can even test it by removing parts.
Again, your are using circular reasoning. Why won't you listen? I'll say that again.

Why are you using circular reasoning?
 
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Speedwell

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yes i can if they both share the same trait. in this case is ic systems and we can even test it by removing parts.
So what if it's an "IC system?" You haven't shown that "IC systems" can't evolve.
 
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pitabread

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yes i can if they both share the same trait.

Nope. This is just another example of you invoking the False Equivalence fallacy. Again.

the scientific method use testing and experiments. we can test the claim of design and ic system but we cant test evolutionery ideas.

Evolution is tested all the time via the scientific method and hypothesis testing. Claiming otherwise suggests you neither understand the science of evolution nor the scientific method. This is common among creationists.

thus evolution isnt scientific as i already proved here:

Why evolution isn't scientific

You did no such thing I'm afraid. All that thread demonstrated was that you don't appear to understand the fossil record, the time frames of appearance of taxa and the relatively evolutionary dependency therein.

That thread did not go well for you.
 
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Gene2memE

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actually pitabread claim is a problematic to begin with, since its very difficult to find a real fossil of bacteria since they are very tiny and have no bones. here is one wrong example out of many:

A 3.5-Billion Year Old Pilbara Find Is Not The Oldest Fossil: So What Is It?

Did you read the actual study, or just the pop science article? Because, if you'd read the study, you'd see a very difference conclusion being drawn to the one you are making:

The 3.43-Ga Strelley Pool Formation shows that plausible early fossil candidates are turning up in unexpected environmental settings. Our data reveal how cellular clusters of unexpectedly large coccoids and tubular sheath-like envelopes were trapped between sand grains and entombed within coatings of dripstone beach-rock silica cement. These fossils come from Earth’s earliest known intertidal to supratidal shoreline deposit, accumulated under aerated but oxygen poor conditions.

It must be tiring being so wrong, so often.
 
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xianghua

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xianghua

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Did you read the actual study, or just the pop science article? Because, if you'd read the study, you'd see a very difference conclusion being drawn to the one you are making

note the use of the wrod "plausible". as i said- its a problematic to find a real proof that the first organism was a bacteria-like creature since its very hard to find a real fossil of bacteria. as many other scientists admit:

World's Oldest Fossils Possibly Uncovered in Canada

"but exactly when that life first emerged has been hotly debated". "The trouble is that it's difficult for scientists to pin down signs of tiny life-forms that lived billions of years ago, when the Earth has gone through so many other changes since then." For instance, the 3.5-billion-year-old rocks identified in Australia, known as the Apex Chert, were initially touted as tiny microfossils, but a subsequent analysis found that the chemical remains were tied to nonbiological processes from hydrothermal vents, said Kurt Konhauser, a geomicrobiologist at the University of Alberta who was not involved in the new study. Furthermore, the 3.7-billion-year-old fossils found in Greenland could have gotten their intriguing chemical signature from a nonbiological process, according to the new study, which was published today (March 1) in the journal Nature."



or: "The problem with the early fossil record of life is that it is so limited and difficult to interpret—careful reanalysis of the some of the very oldest fossils has shown them to be crystals, not fossils at all."

It must be tiring being so wrong, so often.


as you can see- its not wrong at all.
 
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pitabread

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no. this is another example how you avoid my question. but its ok.

There was no question.

Regardless, pointing out you are using logical fallacies in your arguments isn't avoidance. It's pointing out that your arguments are not logically sound.

Instead of getting defensive, perhaps you should work on coming up with better arguments.

i will let the readers to judge.

Oh, they have. It wasn't pretty.

Have you ever wondered why nobody on this forum (including other creationists) defends your arguments?
 
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Speedwell

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note the use of the wrod "plausible". as i said- its a problematic to find a real proof that the first organism was a bacteria-like creature since its very hard to find a real fossil of bacteria. as many other scientists admit:

World's Oldest Fossils Possibly Uncovered in Canada

"but exactly when that life first emerged has been hotly debated". "The trouble is that it's difficult for scientists to pin down signs of tiny life-forms that lived billions of years ago, when the Earth has gone through so many other changes since then." For instance, the 3.5-billion-year-old rocks identified in Australia, known as the Apex Chert, were initially touted as tiny microfossils, but a subsequent analysis found that the chemical remains were tied to nonbiological processes from hydrothermal vents, said Kurt Konhauser, a geomicrobiologist at the University of Alberta who was not involved in the new study. Furthermore, the 3.7-billion-year-old fossils found in Greenland could have gotten their intriguing chemical signature from a nonbiological process, according to the new study, which was published today (March 1) in the journal Nature."



or: "The problem with the early fossil record of life is that it is so limited and difficult to interpret—careful reanalysis of the some of the very oldest fossils has shown them to be crystals, not fossils at all."




as you can see- its not wrong at all.
Scientists are quite up front that they have no certain knowledge about how the first life form came to be--it's not a secret that they have to be forced to "admit." But it does you no good to point it out, because even if the first life form appeared through natural causes it could still have been designed.
 
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