Would this lower healthcare costs?

mukk_in said:

The President is considering requiring hospitals to publish the prices that have been negotiated with the insurers. Hospitals that fail to do so could be fined up to $300/day. Will this lower healthcare costs?

Trump administration proposes rule requiring hospitals to publish the prices negotiated with insurers

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Probably not the posting of prices but the negotiation of prices to insurance companies has.

As long as health insurace companies are allowed to control their own prices, they will be way too high. A law that caps prices for all FDA-approved drugs, surgeries, etc. is the only way to do that.

It would encourage competition for prices and is a step in the right direction.

ChristianForCats said:

As long as health insurace companies are allowed to control their own prices, they will be way too high.

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Which is why a Public option would force the insurance companies to lower their prices.
If you have to compete with an insurance company that can print it's own money, you really need to sharpen your pencil!

A law that caps prices for all FDA-approved drugs, surgeries, etc. is the only way to do that.

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Well, since most if not all Medical research originates with and would not happen without Government (taxpayer) funding, it seems reasonable that we the people who fund the research ought to get a break from having to turn around and pay the profit margins of the private drug companies who exploit the publicly funded knowledge/research etc...

No, if anything it will probably raise health care costs because it creates a new layer of bureaucracy to see to this requirement. Price transparency isn't the issue, it's the lack of options. People who are seriously ill or injured aren't going to price compare hospitals. They are going to go to the nearest one they are insured at.

parousia70 said:

Which is why a public option would force the insurance companies to lower their prices.

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Are you referring to a single-payer system in which everyone gets "free" health care via higher taxes? We don't want the health care budget to affect how many people get Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Secruity, which is what happens when bills like the Affordable Care Act are passed. As long as Congress writes laws that reduce benefits of existing federal health care programs price caps on private health insurance is our only hope of lowering medical costs.

Well, since most if not all medical research originates with and would not happen without Government (taxpayer) funding, it seems reasonable that we the people who fund the research ought to get a break from having to turn around and pay the profit margins of the private drug companies who exploit the publicly funded knowledge/research etc.

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Where did you get this information? Drug companies invent medications. College professors and scientists do medical research. Check out the biographies of research conclusion authors in medical journals. "Most" is a big exaggeration because thousands of studies are done each year. You just don't see it because they don't all get the FDA's attention.

ChristianForCats said:

Are you referring to a single-payer system in which everyone gets "free" health care via higher taxes?

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No I'm referencing a PUBLIC OPTION, not a Medicare for all mandate.
An OPTION for everyone from Birth to Death to buy into Medicare, which operates on a 3% overhead instead of 15-30% overhead that private insurance companies operate on.

Where did you get this information? Drug companies invent medications. College professors and scientists do medical research. Check out the biographies of research conclusion authors in medical journals. "Most" is a big exaggeration because thousands of studies are done each year. You just don't see it because they don't all get the FDA's attention.

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Op-Ed: How taxpayers prop up Big Pharma, and how to cap that

“75% of so-called new molecular entities with priority rating (the most innovative drugs) trace their existence to NIH funding [the National Institutes of Health], while companies spend more on ‘me too’ drugs (slight variations of existing ones.)”

It's hardly an exaggeration to call 75% "most".

Arcangl86 said:

No, if anything it will probably raise health care costs because it creates a new layer of bureaucracy to see to this requirement. Price transparency isn't the issue, it's the lack of options. People who are seriously ill or injured aren't going to price compare hospitals. They are going to go to the nearest one they are insured at.

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In the areas that there are plenty of options (mine for instance), the lack of price transparency makes options moot.

I did get a good tip from my own doctor, rather obvious upon reflection. Even though his own clinic advertises emergency capability, he looked around, lowered his voice, and said, "If you have an emergency, do not come here." He also warned against going to any of the many strip mall emergency clinics in this area.

He said, "If you're not actually bleeding out, go straight to the emergency room of a major hospital, like Baylor. The doctors in the EM already have priority privileges for operating rooms and whatever equipment the hospital itself has, so you won't wind up rushing from the emergency clinic to a hospital and then waiting again."

mukk_in said:

The President is considering requiring hospitals to publish the prices that have been negotiated with the insurers. Hospitals that fail to do so could be fined up to $300/day. Will this lower healthcare costs?

Trump administration proposes rule requiring hospitals to publish the prices negotiated with insurers

Click to expand...

I don't think this would do anything to alter consumer behavior. How many people going to the hospital would see those numbers and turn the car around or tell the ambulance to take them back home? Nah, doc, I'll forgo the kidney dialysis based on the numbers you've published....

(I'm not on dialysis btw)

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Yes posting prices will make it easier to compare some services. Obviously if you need an ER it will not matter but I have seen MRI's that are 30% cheaper and those alternatives can make a difference.

ChristianForCats said:

As long as health insurace companies are allowed to control their own prices, they will be way too high. A law that caps prices for all FDA-approved drugs, surgeries, etc. is the only way to do that.

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Don't conflate health insurance companies with health care providers. Health insurance companies would love to see health care become much cheaper as their profits would increase with lower health care costs. If health care became 40 percent cheaper the insurance companies could charge 10 percent less and not only would the insurance companies get huge profit increases but they would be seen in a much more positive light by the general public. Laws that make a profession less profitable convince people to enter a different field of endeavor. If a potential surgeon discovers that he/she will not have a higher standard of living than someone that does not have to spend years in education and training just to qualify to practice their craft, the potential surgeon that has any sense at all might well decide to look elsewhere for a career.

As for this Trump policy, I don't see it as being effective simply because the publishing of prices that people do not personally pay themselves does not convince people to shop for a better price. Free market principles only work if there is a free market and the customer is paying for the product or service. Where the government has basically fixed the price by inserting itself into the market and telling producers and providers what it will allow them to charge it,(see Medicare and Medicaid) information on what prices charged to insurance companies are, is useless to the consumer of insurance. If consumers of health care were paying for the health care price information would be valuable to them but price information on health care is of little use for consumers of health insurance.

grasping the after wind said:

As for this Trump policy, I don't see it as being effective simply because the publishing of prices that people do not personally pay themselves does not convince people to shop for a better price. Free market principles only work if there is a free market and the customer is paying for the product or service. Where the government has basically fixed the price by inserting itself into the market and telling producers and providers what it will allow them to charge it,(see Medicare and Medicaid) information on what prices charged to insurance companies are, is useless to the consumer of insurance. If consumers of health care were paying for the health care price information would be valuable to them but price information on health care is of little use for consumers of health insurance.

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Most medical insurance plans have co-pays and deductables. When I have a choice of paying a $10 co-pay for the brand of drug my insurance company will cover, or buying the Wal-Mart brand for $4.00, I'll buy the Wal-Mart brand. And that is a real-world example in my case.

If my insurance plan has a $2500 deductable with 10% co-pays, I'll still shop around if I can.

mukk_in said:

The President is considering requiring hospitals to publish the prices that have been negotiated with the insurers. Hospitals that fail to do so could be fined up to $300/day. Will this lower healthcare costs?

Trump administration proposes rule requiring hospitals to publish the prices negotiated with insurers

Click to expand...

1) Over inflated doctors salaries in an industry that is not recruiting from the full possible pool of recruits in order to restrict supply and raise prices,
2) a disastrous legal culture massively inflating costs In health care institutions afraid of being sued
3) Big Pharma profit margins
4) Big Pharma drug /medical equipment design and pricing strategies based on profit rather than patient interest making both more expensive than elsewhere for comparable examples.
5) Lack of price transparency across the market
6) Administrative complexity and costs
7) Americans are fat , eat rubbish and do no exercise.

7 reasons that your costs are twice the level of Europe and your care half as good for the 99%. But at least the Trump initiative begins to tackle number 5)

U.S. health spending twice other countries' with worse results - Reuters

mindlight said:

1) Over inflated doctors salaries in an industry that is not recruiting from the full possible pool of recruits in order to restrict supply and raise prices,

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Doctor's salaries aren't really the back-breaker in American health care costs (no more than professors' salaries are the back-breaker in American education costs).

Your others are more accurate.

grasping the after wind said:

Don't conflate health insurance companies with health care providers. Health insurance companies would love to see health care become much cheaper as their profits would increase with lower health care costs. If health care became 40 percent cheaper the insurance companies could charge 10 percent less and not only would the insurance companies get huge profit increases but they would be seen in a much more positive light by the general public.

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What I would like to see is an end to patients being forced to take generics or the wrong forms and doses of drugs because what they needi s too expensive. I have had to take the original formulation of pills that I need in the extended release form. I have had to take generic piils when I needed the brand name pills. I had to take more pills in a smaller dose because three 100 mg pills are cheaper than one 300 mg pill for the same number of days. That is what needs to stop.

The drug price problems come from Humana, not my doctors. So I have no idea why it would not be the health insurance company's fault.

Laws that make a profession less profitable convince people to enter a different field of endeavor. If a potential surgeon discovers that he/she will not have a higher standard of living than someone that does not have to spend years in education and training just to qualify to practice their craft, the potential surgeon that has any sense at all might well decide to look elsewhere for a career.

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I do not know how long the residency period is for surgeons, but one of my sister's classmates in medical school originally wanted to be a neurologist and switched to family practice after learning neurology has a six-year residency. So a potential surgeon has more to consider that is unaffected by health care costs.

RDKirk said:

Doctor's salaries aren't really the back-breaker in American health care costs (no more than professors' salaries are the back-breaker in American education costs).

Your others are more accurate.

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GP Salaries in the USA are the highest in the world but there is a shortage of doctors. 25% of doctors come from abroad but now with immigration restrictions the shortage is exacerbated.

But with some notable expensive exceptions these doctors are no better than doctors in Europe and outcomes are actually worse in the USA than in Europe.

mindlight said:

GP Salaries in the USA are the highest in the world but there is a shortage of doctors. 25% of doctors come from abroad but now with immigration restrictions the shortage is exacerbated.

But with some notable expensive exceptions these doctors are no better than doctors in Europe and outcomes are actually worse in the USA than in Europe.

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So? Their salaries are still not the backbreakers of US healthcare.

RDKirk said:

So? Their salaries are still not the backbreakers of US healthcare.

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The point is that everything costs more in the USA. Admin costs are at about 8% of total for example compared to 1-3% in most high income European systems. Also salaries are a significant part of the costs of a health care system and GPs are paid more in the US system adding to the overall cost inflation problem.

Sky-high prices of everything make US healthcare the world's most expensive

But I also looked at what % of health care costs were to do with paying health workers and found that the % in North America was lower than in other similar countries. So as a focus reducing drug / medical equipment and admin prices and the other items on my list might be a better focus. That does not exclude reducing costs by reducing wages also however

https://www.who.int/hrh/documents/measuring_expenditure.pdf

Yarddog said:

Probably not the posting of prices but the negotiation of prices to insurance companies has.

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It would expose some shenanigans going on behind the scenes. Meaning expose which medical institutions are getting away with lower costs and why; and find out which ones are being fleeced and why.