LDS How to Become a God

Pedra · Jul 30, 2019

Peter1000 said:
You are either not telling the truth, or you are ignorant about history, archaeology, and spiritual evidences of the BOM. You are misleading people to think that there are no evidences.

You are either not telling the truth, or are ignorant of the translation of the Egyptian mummy scrolls. Just briefly, so you are not ignorant. JS received scrolls from Egyptian mummies. Through revelation he translated some of the scrolls. Then he was murdered, and his wife eventually sold the entire collection. This collection ended up in a Chicago museum, that eventually caught fire and destroyed all the scrolls except for like 7 fragments of some of the scrolls. The scrolls that were destroyed were the scrolls that JS translated Abraham from, and the fragments that survived were what is in every mummy that was buried at that time, and that was a document called a funeral scroll of breathings. Everyone had a funeral scroll, but often they allowed other documents to be placed in their mummy also and this is what happened with these mummies. Unfortunately, this additional scrolls were the ones burned up.

There are 2 controversial pictures that JS said meant X, and Egyptologists disagree, but it is far from being adjudicated, and Egyptian pictures are difficult to translate and even more difficult to understand the underlying meaning even if you have a mechanical transliteration.

Now you know more of the truth. Ask me more if you wish.

False Once Again. You got no Truth Peter from Joseph Smith the false prophet.....sorry, please wake up!
LDS is based upon fallacies that only Mormons believe.

Peter1000 · Jul 30, 2019

Pedra said:
They didn't and you've been shown & told but continue to argue to uphold the LDS narrative. There will never be agreement between Mormonism & Christianity. The foundational teachings are completely opposing.
Unfortunately those who are LDS are taught Untruths foundationally from the beginning -i.e. Not to believe in God the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit--aka the Trinity; They are taught to doubt the scripture, it's only spiritual writings from LDS view & they've been told its corrupt, so no need to believe in the Bible as the Word of God. The Bible scripture is not the ultimate divine authority because to LDS- it's not God's Word. Besides , how special is one God in a sea of infinite number who all had once been human like you anyway?
The sad TRUTH is LDS teachings are the thing that are spiritually corrupt, there is no Mormon prophet of GOD, there was No angel sent from GOD, No rewrite of the Bible scripture, No gold plates, No humans becoming "gods" ruling planets & having some kind of god- sex for an infinity.
Always, to me really seems pretty obvious that Mormonism from the start is an eg. of idolatry of Joseph Smith , it was making a "god" in the human image & wanting sex with poly-wives. Only carnal mankind would think the most evolved idea of heaven is about having god-sex and populating other planets with god-children.

So again, nothing. You are incredible. I ask you to help me reconcile bible inconsistencies and I tell you how I have, and ask you what I think, and you come back to me with:

"There will never be agreement between Momonism and Christianity.

First of all I am not talking about the Mormon position vs the Christian position. The bible is inconsistent when it comes to this topic. It is inconsistant for both Mormons and Christians. For example: Abraham, Jacob, both see God face to face and live. Moses on the other hand is told he cannot see the face of God and live. Tell why not. Forget your fury against the Mormons, and help me understand the bible.

Peter1000 · Jul 30, 2019

Pedra said:
False Once Again. You got no Truth Peter from Joseph Smith the false prophet.....sorry, please wake up!
LDS is based upon fallacies that only Mormons believe.

I got the truth from JS in 1830 about trans-Atlantic ancient voyages. I got the truth from the Smithsonian Institute in 1990 after years of telling people that JS was a fraud and there was no Trans-Atlantic voyages anciently that helped populate the Americas. So now the "experts" believe what was once a "fallacy" that proved JS was a false prophet. Well, since it was proven to be true, is he a true prophet?

On this one count, and this one count only, the "experts" were wrong for 160 years before they caught up with the knowledge of a prophet of God.

I can give you 20 other evidences that the "experts" howled and laughed at JS for saying such stupid stuff in the BOM in 1830, but yet today they are saying, wow, how did JS know that, he just got lucky when he said that in 1830. But archaeologists have proven him to be right? I know, but we know he wasn't a prophet, so it was just pure luck.

Peter1000 · Jul 30, 2019

Pedra said:
False Once Again. You got no Truth Peter from Joseph Smith the false prophet.....sorry, please wake up!
LDS is based upon fallacies that only Mormons believe.

No, I got the truth from "experts". Non-Mormon "experts".

He is the way · Jul 30, 2019

Pedra said:
Sorry , I know you don't get this, but scripture does NOT contradict scripture. Your false beliefs have been refuted repeatedly by @mmksparbud but you are stiff-necked.
CLEARLY the Bible states from God's own mouth: "no one can see my face and live." The LORD God considered Moses a friend and was speaking to Moses 1-1 but from a CLOUDY PILLAR
Exodus: 33: 9 " And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, THE CLOUDY PILLAR DESCENDED, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the LORD talked with Moses."
Real Believers read the scripture and hear what it says by the Holy Spirit & do not try to make it say what it doesn't, whereas, the LDS /Joseph smith followers twist scripture in order to attempt to validate THE mormon teachings. You are definitely are doing it the hard way--by stubbornly opposing the HOLY GOD of Israel, who revealed Himself to Abraham, & spoke to Moses from a cloud. The Almighty GOD, is not found in Smiths pantheon of false gods, on multiple planets & neither is found the real Lord Jesus the Son of God, neither have any who follow the false prophet Joseph Smith been born again & nor have received the Spirit of truth -which, sadly has been obvious.
The False teaching of the Non-prophet Smith sold to his followers is believing they human beings are capable of being "gods" ....that was Satan's lie in the garden of eden and Joseph Smith just developed that original Eden Lie that caused the fall-- to form his own mormon cult community that deceptively claim to be christians but Nothing is Further from the TRUTH.

You said: "Sorry , I know you don't get this, but scripture does NOT contradict scripture."
Actually the Bible does contradict itself:

(Old Testament | Numbers 23:19)

19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

(Old Testament | Jonah 3:10)

10 ¶ And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

That is a contradiction.

(Old Testament | 2 Samuel 8:3 - 4)

3 ¶ David smote also Hadadezer, the son of Rehob, king of Zobah, as he went to recover his border at the river Euphrates.
4 And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them for an hundred chariots.

(Old Testament | 1 Chronicles 18:3 - 4)

3 ¶ And David smote Hadarezer king of Zobah unto Hamath, as he went to stablish his dominion by the river Euphrates.
4 And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: David also houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them an hundred chariots.

One of these verses is wrong. And there are others.

mmksparbud · Jul 30, 2019

Peter1000 said:
I got the truth from JS in 1830 about trans-Atlantic ancient voyages. I got the truth from the Smithsonian Institute in 1990 after years of telling people that JS was a fraud and there was no Trans-Atlantic voyages anciently that helped populate the Americas. So now the "experts" believe what was once a "fallacy" that proved JS was a false prophet. Well, since it was proven to be true, is he a true prophet?

On this one count, and this one count only, the "experts" were wrong for 160 years before they caught up with the knowledge of a prophet of God.

I can give you 20 other evidences that the "experts" howled and laughed at JS for saying such stupid stuff in the BOM in 1830, but yet today they are saying, wow, how did JS know that, he just got lucky when he said that in 1830. But archaeologists have proven him to be right? I know, but we know he wasn't a prophet, so it was just pure luck.

submitted 1 year ago by Mormontruth
Recently I wrote to President Uchtdorf with a number of interrogatives, none of which he addressed however FairMormon was threatened enough react to my letter.

When Googling ‘Archaeological Evidence and the Book of Mormon’ one cannot help, but be impressed by the success of FairMormon, the Mormon Church’s go to apologist site at web optimization.

In addressing the absence of any archeological or anthropological evidence of the BOM, the apologists make the following statement:

“The Book of Mormon mentions cities, trade, warfare, towers, and the use of armor–all of which did exist in the ancient Americas–yet their existence has not convinced critics that the Book of Mormon is an authentic ancient text.” *

Hold on; there must have been some startling discoveries while I was in priesthood meeting.

Let me read on to learn more about these apparently new finds of cities, trade, warfare, towers, and the use of armor shown to be from Book of Mormon times; I am promised that “archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon–does exist, and will be discussed shortly.”

Wait, did I miss something? I have finished the entire article, but neither the evidence or proof promised was presented. I was anxious to learn of the cities that have been discovered or view the evidence of the great wars, the swords, and armor or even the remains of one of the millions of the soldiers who died in battle!

Also, with all their dancing, around epigraphic and iconographic evidence notwithstanding, and their tendency to answer their own questions, FairMormon has not provided anything worthwhile and certainly has not shot down the myriad statements made by legitimate and unbiased (read non-Mormon) archeologists that, “There is absolutely no archeological proof of the Book of Mormon.”

FairMormon makes statements such as “There is plenty of supporting evidence that anthropologically ties the Book of Mormon to ancient America,” but then offers no examples of what those ties are.

I know the apologists at FairMormon are becoming more desperate as they are, no doubt pushed by their masters to come up with something, anything, but sophistry doesn’t cut it. The assertion that there is, “plenty of supporting evidence,” is nonsense. The only ‘archeologists’ who would make such a claim are trying to weave straw into gold over at BYU!

OK if evidence exists, in the words of Eliza Doolittle in ‘My Fair Lady, “Don’t talk at all – Show Me!”

My 'Letter to an Apostle' and FairMormon's response can be viewed at:

http://www.lettertoanapostle.org

With warmest regards,

Paul

*Book of Mormon/Archaeology/Compared to the Bible - FairMormon

Peter1000 · Jul 30, 2019

mmksparbud said:
submitted 1 year ago by Mormontruth
Recently I wrote to President Uchtdorf with a number of interrogatives, none of which he addressed however FairMormon was threatened enough react to my letter.

When Googling ‘Archaeological Evidence and the Book of Mormon’ one cannot help, but be impressed by the success of FairMormon, the Mormon Church’s go to apologist site at web optimization.

In addressing the absence of any archeological or anthropological evidence of the BOM, the apologists make the following statement:

“The Book of Mormon mentions cities, trade, warfare, towers, and the use of armor–all of which did exist in the ancient Americas–yet their existence has not convinced critics that the Book of Mormon is an authentic ancient text.” *

Hold on; there must have been some startling discoveries while I was in priesthood meeting.

Let me read on to learn more about these apparently new finds of cities, trade, warfare, towers, and the use of armor shown to be from Book of Mormon times; I am promised that “archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon–does exist, and will be discussed shortly.”

Wait, did I miss something? I have finished the entire article, but neither the evidence or proof promised was presented. I was anxious to learn of the cities that have been discovered or view the evidence of the great wars, the swords, and armor or even the remains of one of the millions of the soldiers who died in battle!

Also, with all their dancing, around epigraphic and iconographic evidence notwithstanding, and their tendency to answer their own questions, FairMormon has not provided anything worthwhile and certainly has not shot down the myriad statements made by legitimate and unbiased (read non-Mormon) archeologists that, “There is absolutely no archeological proof of the Book of Mormon.”

FairMormon makes statements such as “There is plenty of supporting evidence that anthropologically ties the Book of Mormon to ancient America,” but then offers no examples of what those ties are.

I know the apologists at FairMormon are becoming more desperate as they are, no doubt pushed by their masters to come up with something, anything, but sophistry doesn’t cut it. The assertion that there is, “plenty of supporting evidence,” is nonsense. The only ‘archeologists’ who would make such a claim are trying to weave straw into gold over at BYU!

OK if evidence exists, in the words of Eliza Doolittle in ‘My Fair Lady, “Don’t talk at all – Show Me!”

My 'Letter to an Apostle' and FairMormon's response can be viewed at:

http://www.lettertoanapostle.org

With warmest regards,

Paul

*Book of Mormon/Archaeology/Compared to the Bible - FairMormon

Paul would not accept an evidence if it stood up and bit him. Hello.

I have just given you one, and you have completely ignored it and continue to say there are no evidences. Hello.

mmksparbud · Jul 30, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Paul would not accept an evidence if it stood up and bit him. Hello.

I have just given you one, and you have completely ignored it and continue to say there are no evidences. Hello.

Provide non-Mormon peer reviewed evidence.

Pedra · Jul 30, 2019

Peter1000 said:
So again, nothing. You are incredible. I ask you to help me reconcile bible inconsistencies and I tell you how I have, and ask you what I think, and you come back to me with:

"There will never be agreement between Momonism and Christianity.

First of all I am not talking about the Mormon position vs the Christian position. The bible is inconsistent when it comes to this topic. It is inconsistant for both Mormons and Christians. For example: Abraham, Jacob, both see God face to face and live. Moses on the other hand is told he cannot see the face of God and live. Tell why not. Forget your fury against the Mormons, and help me understand the bible.

So again nothing?......ya nothing but the Bible as the only Godly authority, given by God.
Please don't claim you are not talking about the Mormon position, because that is what this whole insistence on your part about seeing God face to face came from in the first place.
My point is LDS rejects the Bible as the word of God & opposes the true LORD GOD & Christ Jesus because there are no other gods, and God & Jesus were not humans from another planet, and Jesus and Satan are not brothers.
How do Christians reason with people who reject the fundamental Christian theology & doctrines, and who rejects the scriptures when they contradict their beliefs saying it's "the scriptures that is inconsistent??"
Wrong, the scripture is fine, it's the lds teachings that are corrupted.

He is the way · Jul 30, 2019

Pedra said:
So again nothing?......ya nothing but the Bible as the only Godly authority, given by God.
Please don't claim you are not talking about the Mormon position, because that is what this whole insistence on your part about seeing God face to face came from in the first place.
My point is LDS rejects the Bible as the word of God & opposes the true LORD GOD & Christ Jesus because there are no other gods, and God & Jesus were not humans from another planet, and Jesus and Satan are not brothers.
How do Christians reason with people who reject the fundamental Christian theology & doctrines, and who rejects the scriptures when they contradict their beliefs saying it's "the scriptures that is inconsistent??"
Wrong, the scripture is fine, it's the lds teachings that are corrupted.

You said: "My point is LDS rejects the Bible as the word of God" That is not true we we use the Bible to help other people know how to LOVE Jesus Christ by keeping the commandments:

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

However I have shown that sometimes the Bible does contradict itself:

(Old Testament | Exodus 33:11)

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

(Old Testament | Genesis 32:30)

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 34:10)

10 ¶ And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,

(Old Testament | Judges 13:22)

22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

(New Testament | Matthew 11:27)

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Peter1000 · Jul 30, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Provide non-Mormon peer reviewed evidence.

Tell me first if you believe what I have told you about Trans-Atlantic ancient crossings.

Peter1000 · Jul 30, 2019

Pedra said:
So again nothing?......ya nothing but the Bible as the only Godly authority, given by God.
Please don't claim you are not talking about the Mormon position, because that is what this whole insistence on your part about seeing God face to face came from in the first place.
My point is LDS rejects the Bible as the word of God & opposes the true LORD GOD & Christ Jesus because there are no other gods, and God & Jesus were not humans from another planet, and Jesus and Satan are not brothers.
How do Christians reason with people who reject the fundamental Christian theology & doctrines, and who rejects the scriptures when they contradict their beliefs saying it's "the scriptures that is inconsistent??"
Wrong, the scripture is fine, it's the lds teachings that are corrupted.

The scriptures seem to be in conflict. One scripture say men cannot see my face and live.
Two other scriptures say that men saw Gods face and lived.
This is not a JS problem. In fact it is really not a problem for me. But it is a problem for you. You do not even see it, or you do and will not admit it.

So does the bible contradict itself, I say not, but you say it does. Explain yourself.

mmksparbud · Jul 30, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Tell me first if you believe what I have told you about Trans-Atlantic ancient crossings.

What do you mean? JS said the Native Americans are descendants from the Jews who came here. The DNA, last I heard, does not show that. Is that what you mean?

Peter1000 · Jul 30, 2019

mmksparbud said:
What do you mean? JS said the Native Americans are descendants from the Jews who came here. The DNA, last I heard, does not show that. Is that what you mean?

Do you believe me about Trans-Atlantic ancient crossings? Do your believe the Josephites could have got here from Jerusalem by a Trans-Atlantic crossing?

mmksparbud · Jul 30, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Do you believe me about Trans-Atlantic ancient crossings? Do your believe the Josephites could have got here from Jerusalem by a Trans-Atlantic crossing?

Have no idea. Nothing states that God called any Jew anywhere else but the middle east. They were to be there for that is where Christ was to be born--not in the USA. There was no reason for them to come here. Everything God did was in the middle east. Could they have come here? I don't know, If God wanted them here, but nothing in the bible says He did. However, there is lots about the Norsemen being here.

Peter1000 · Jul 31, 2019

Pedra said:
So again nothing?......ya nothing but the Bible as the only Godly authority, given by God.
Please don't claim you are not talking about the Mormon position, because that is what this whole insistence on your part about seeing God face to face came from in the first place.

My point is LDS rejects the Bible as the word of God & opposes the true LORD GOD & Christ Jesus because there are no other gods, and God & Jesus were not humans from another planet, and Jesus and Satan are not brothers.

Click to expand...

How do Christians reason with people who reject the fundamental Christian theology & doctrines, and who rejects the scriptures when they contradict their beliefs saying it's "the scriptures that is inconsistent??"
Wrong, the scripture is fine, it's the lds teachings that are corrupted.

My point is LDS rejects the Bible as the word of God & opposes the true LORD GOD & Christ Jesus because there are no other gods, and God & Jesus were not humans from another planet, and Jesus and Satan are not brothers.

1) LDS do not reject the Bible - you preach a falsehood, God hates people who knowingly speak falsehoods. LDS rejects the bible where it is not translated correctly and therefore confuses the doctrine. That is the reason there are 3500+ Christian churches because the bible has some translation problems.
For instance: The very thing that we have been discussing.
Compare Exodus 33:20 to Genesis 32:24-30 especially vs 30, and Genesis 18:1-8 especially verse 1.
You can speak as authoritarian as you wish, and praise the bible all you wish, but this is what we call, 'a conflict', or 'an inconsistency' in the bible. We try to reconcile these conflicts or inconsistencies, and we do. We love the bible and we do work through the problems and go forward with confidence that what we are reading is true. I read the bible every day, praying that the Holy Spirit will guide me in the truth. I have spoken nothing but biblical truth to you as we have discussed the inconsistency of these 3 scriptures. You regard me as satan and refuse to engage, not a good Christian defender of the faith.

2) I do not oppose the true Lord God and Christ Jesus because there are no other gods. You are right, there are no other gods except God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These only do we worship, we do no oppose them. Again, false teaching on your part, and God hates a person who teaches false doctrine.

3) God and Jesus are not humans from another planet. This is a half false statement. We know that Jesus was a human from this planet Earth. We have not been given any information about his Father and God, God the Father. So you are in an area that you know very little about and are preaching false doctrine about LDS. God hates a person that speaks false doctrine.

4) Jesus and satan are brothers. You will never believe me, so I will not continue on this subjects, except to say, when the resurrection takes place and all knowledge is known about this earth, you will find that satan was once next to Jesus in importance before this earth was created. He began to hate his second position, with Jesus between him and God the Father. This lead to his downfall, and after the war in heaven and 1/3 of the spirits of heaven followed satan, they were cast out of heaven to the earth. You obviously cannot know that satan and Jesus were once brothers standing next to God without reading the scriptures carefully and piece the story together. But you will find that satan and Jesus were brothers, and brothers to you and I too. All contained in the bible, and if you wish to study further on this subject, I would be happy to accommodate you.

I will tell you though that God hates one that speaks falsely to another. This is a biblical truth, so be aware of that and only speak the truth about LDS and not what you have heard or read from way biased books and articles. The truth is most important. You can still zing us with what we teach, because it is different from what you teach in many ways, but at least zing us with what we actually teach. Thank you.

mmksparbud · Jul 31, 2019

Peter1000 said:
1) LDS do not reject the Bible - you preach a falsehood, God hates people who knowingly speak falsehoods. LDS rejects the bible where it is not translated correctly and therefore confuses the doctrine.

Not falsehood!!! By not translated correctly---you mean not in accordance to what JS says!! You do reject what the bible says no matter how accurate the translation is if it contradicts JS. It is Mormons who speak falsely by trying to hide the fact that they place the writings of JS above the bible.

Peter1000 · Jul 31, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Have no idea. Nothing states that God called any Jew anywhere else but the middle east. They were to be there for that is where Christ was to be born--not in the USA. There was no reason for them to come here. Everything God did was in the middle east. Could they have come here? I don't know, If God wanted them here, but nothing in the bible says He did. However, there is lots about the Norsemen being here.

OK, here is a little BOM lesson. The Jews came from the family of Judah, the same person that sold Joseph into Egypt.
The person Joseph had a family also and he wanted to give his 2 children their inheritance in Israel and so God gave him, the heir, a double portion of land called Ephraim and Manasseh.

In the scriptures, Joseph was blessed by his father Jacob/Israel. This blessing an be found in the book of Genesis.
Genesis 49:22-26 King James Version (KJV)
22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel

25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

We believe that this blessing was given to Joseph because his children, through Manasseh would indeed run over the walls of the well, to a land of everlasting hills. IOW a branch of Joseph/Manasseh (a fruitful bough)would leave Jerusalem and go over the sea (well) to another land which is unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills. (the Americas)

We also believe that it is this family of Joseph/Manassah is who Jesus was talking about when he said:
John 10:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus was sent to the house of Israel to preach the everlasting gospel. If part of that house was in the Americas, it makes sense that he would go there and preach his gospel to them also.
And this is recorded in the BOM about that visit from Jesus:

3rd NEPHI CHAPTER 11

1 And now it came to pass that there were a great multitude gathered together, of the people of Nephi, round about the temple which was in the land Bountiful; and they were marveling and wondering one with another, and were showing one to another the great and marvelous change which had taken place.
2 And they were also conversing about this Jesus Christ, of whom the sign had been given concerning his death.
3 And it came to pass that while they were thus conversing one with another, they heard a voice as if it came out of heaven; and they cast their eyes round about, for they understood not the voice which they heard; and it was not a harsh voice, neither was it a loud voice; nevertheless, and notwithstanding it being a small voice it did pierce them that did hear to the center, insomuch that there was no part of their frame that it did not cause to quake; yea, it did pierce them to the very soul, and did cause their hearts to burn.
4 And it came to pass that again they heard the voice, and they understood it not.
5 And again the third time they did hear the voice, and did open their ears to hear it; and their eyes were towards the sound thereof; and they did look steadfastly towards heaven, from whence the sound came.
6 And behold, the third time they did understand the voice which they heard; and it said unto them:
7 Behold my Beloved Son, bin whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him.
8 And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe; and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them.
9 And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying:
10 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.
11 And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning.
12 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words the whole multitude afell to the earth; for they remembered that it had been prophesied among them that Christ should show himself unto them after his ascension into heaven.
13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:
14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.
15 And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.
16 And when they had all gone forth and had witnessed for themselves, they did cry out with one accord, saying:
17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

Even today, we learn that the Mayan tradition has a descending God that at one time obviously came down from heaven. That tradition is a corrupted from the real descending God, that you just read, but nonetheless they still have a descending God tradition.
The Descending God - The Descending God | HistoricalMX

Even today, the Maya have a tradition of the white bearded God that came to them a long time ago and said that he would return.
Bearded Gods of the Americas Were Jesus Resurrected?! Maybe. But Why is the Plumed Serpent Ubiquitous?

I've done too much on this post now, so if you have other questions, let me know. But it is an interesting biblical and BOM study.

Peter1000 · Jul 31, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Not falsehood!!! By not translated correctly---you mean not in accordance to what JS says!! You do reject what the bible says no matter how accurate the translation is if it contradicts JS. It is Mormons who speak falsely by trying to hide the fact that they place the writings of JS above the bible.

Sorry you are wrong again. We for instance do not believe that God is just a spirit. But that is what the bible says in John. We do not reject the bible because of that 1 verse. We in fact have reconciled that verse against many verses that say differently. You have not. You still keep to your belief, even though the bible in many places says differently.

There are many places that the bible does not say exactly what we believe, but we still believe the bible as far as it is translated correctly, and if you don't, that is your loss.

We are not trying to hide anything, we always say a current prophet who is getting current revelations from Jesus Christ is to be put in a first position to a written record from 2100-3500 years ago.

Current is always better than the way, way past, just ask the gentiles in the time of Christ, who were getting current doctrines from Christ and his apostles that they now could be members of his church. If they rejected the current Jesus and apostles, and only accepted Moses and the other OT prophets that had written the words of God to the Jews, they would have rejected the Savior of the world.

In rejecting a current prophet in JS, you are rejecting the current words of Jesus Christ for our day. Our day is different that 2100-3500 years ago. Different problems, different temptations, different cultures, different ways. We need current words from Jesus Christ to help us in our day, against our problems. It should be similar to the bible, but the bible was only about 1/100th what Jesus said anyway. It is not a complete compendium of all that he taught. So why would you no rejoice in a current prophet of God that is receiving revelations from Jesus today?

mmksparbud · Jul 31, 2019

Peter1000 said:
OK, here is a little BOM lesson. The Jews came from the family of Judah, the same person that sold Joseph into Egypt.
The person Joseph had a family also and he wanted to give his 2 children their inheritance in Israel and so God gave him, the heir, a double portion of land called Ephraim and Manasseh.

In the scriptures, Joseph was blessed by his father Jacob/Israel. This blessing an be found in the book of Genesis.
Genesis 49:22-26 King James Version (KJV)
22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel
25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

We believe that this blessing was given to Joseph because his children, through Manasseh would indeed run over the walls of the well, to a land of everlasting hills. IOW a branch of Joseph/Manasseh (a fruitful bough)would leave Jerusalem and go over the sea (well) to another land which is unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills. (the Americas)

We also believe that it is this family of Joseph/Manassah is who Jesus was talking about when he said:
John 10:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus was sent to the house of Israel to preach the everlasting gospel. If part of that house was in the Americas, it makes sense that he would go there and preach his gospel to them also.
And this is recorded in the BOM about that visit from Jesus:

3rd NEPHI CHAPTER 11

1 And now it came to pass that there were a great multitude gathered together, of the people of Nephi, round about the temple which was in the land Bountiful; and they were marveling and wondering one with another, and were showing one to another the great and marvelous change which had taken place.
2 And they were also conversing about this Jesus Christ, of whom the sign had been given concerning his death.
3 And it came to pass that while they were thus conversing one with another, they heard a voice as if it came out of heaven; and they cast their eyes round about, for they understood not the voice which they heard; and it was not a harsh voice, neither was it a loud voice; nevertheless, and notwithstanding it being a small voice it did pierce them that did hear to the center, insomuch that there was no part of their frame that it did not cause to quake; yea, it did pierce them to the very soul, and did cause their hearts to burn.
4 And it came to pass that again they heard the voice, and they understood it not.
5 And again the third time they did hear the voice, and did open their ears to hear it; and their eyes were towards the sound thereof; and they did look steadfastly towards heaven, from whence the sound came.
6 And behold, the third time they did understand the voice which they heard; and it said unto them:
7 Behold my Beloved Son, bin whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him.
8 And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe; and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them.
9 And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying:
10 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.
11 And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning.
12 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words the whole multitude afell to the earth; for they remembered that it had been prophesied among them that Christ should show himself unto them after his ascension into heaven.
13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:
14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.
15 And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.
16 And when they had all gone forth and had witnessed for themselves, they did cry out with one accord, saying:
17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

Even today, we learn that the Mayan tradition has a descending God that at one time obviously came down from heaven. That tradition is a corrupted from the real descending God, that you just read, but nonetheless they still have a descending God tradition.
The Descending God - The Descending God | HistoricalMX

Even today, the Maya have a tradition of the white bearded God that came to them a long time ago and said that he would return.
Bearded Gods of the Americas Were Jesus Resurrected?! Maybe. But Why is the Plumed Serpent Ubiquitous?

I've done too much on this post now, so if you have other questions, let me know. But it is an interesting biblical and BOM study.

I believe that the bible can explain itself.

Gen 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

This obviously is about the last days, not about the near future.
When the word sea is meant---the word sea is used--not well. A well is not a euphemism for sea.
As close as you can come to a spiritual meaning of well is that Jesus offers us living water

Joh_4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Do a word search on the word well.
Branches is another word that is being misinterpreted.

Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Rom_11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom_11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom_11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom_11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom_11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom_11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

This blessing is on the head of Joseph, not his children---His children were blessed in Gen 48. Mensah was the firstborn, but Ephraim would be the greater.

Gen 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.
Gen 48:5 And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.
Gen 48:6 And thy issue, which thou begettest after them, shall be thine, and shall be called after the name of their brethren in their inheritance.
Gen 48:7 And as for me, when I came from Padan, Rachel died by me in the land of Canaan in the way, when yet there was but a little way to come unto Ephrath: and I buried her there in the way of Ephrath; the same is Bethlehem.
Gen 48:8 And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these?
Gen 48:9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.
Gen 48:10 Now the eyes of Israel were dim for age, so that he could not see. And he brought them near unto him; and he kissed them, and embraced them.
Gen 48:11 And Israel said unto Joseph, I had not thought to see thy face: and, lo, God hath shewed me also thy seed.
Gen 48:12 And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.
Gen 48:13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.
Gen 48:14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Gen 48:17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
Gen 48:18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
Gen 48:20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
Gen 48:21 And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.
Gen 48:22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

There is no indication that Mensah was going anywhere but the middle east.

As part of the Kingdom of Israel, the territory of Manasseh was conquered by the Assyrians, and the tribe exiled; the manner of their exile lead to their further history being lost. However, several modern day groups claim descent, with varying levels of academic and rabbinical support. The Samaritans claim that some of their adherents are descended from this tribe. Further afield, in northeast India, the Kuki-Chin-Mizo Jews claim descent from Manasseh, and call themselves Bnei Menashe; in 2005 Shlomo Amar, Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Israel, announced that he regarded this claim to be true, which under the Law of Return allows them to emigrate to Israel, as long as they formally convert to Judaism in accordance with halachic standards.

All in all---I still see absolutely no reason to believe in any of the writings of JS.

LDS How to Become a God

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads