The time when I nearly fell to Buddhism.

NeedyFollower

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Do you question the Buddha or put Him on trial? Especially His claim that He is the Teacher of Gods?
I guess I am like anyone who is diligently searching for truth. Calling what I see by what I see . Much can by learned by a narrative which agrees with a "foretelling " . And a narrative which is told through a "people " or a tribe . I do not see that as much with the teachings of Buddha regarding a purpose and a description of the reason , our heavenly Father . Singular verses gods , plural . I think the jews did a good job of describing their failings and the ensuing corrections which were written for our sakes . I am not aware of a people who were not a people until they were called out of paganism and introduced to and adopted by God. So regarding Buddha. His message was different than a God who put on humanity in order to demonstrate and inact a new covenant and to be a high priest for man and to reconcile us to our heavenly Father . I see Buddhism as philosophy ...the what but not the why .
 
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ananda

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I guess I am like anyone who is diligently searching for truth. Calling what I see by what I see . Much can by learned by a narrative which agrees with a "foretelling " . And a narrative which is told through a "people " or a tribe . I do not see that as much with the teachings of Buddha regarding a purpose and a description of the reason , our heavenly Father . Singular verses gods , plural . I think the jews did a good job of describing their failings and the ensuing corrections which were written for our sakes . I am not aware of a people who were not a people until they were called out of paganism and introduced to and adopted by God. So regarding Buddha. His message was different than a God who put on humanity in order to demonstrate and inact a new covenant and to be a high priest for man and to reconcile us to our heavenly Father . I see Buddhism as philosophy ...the what but not the why .
If a deity needs to tell a story through an allegedly specially selected people group or a special class (e.g. tribe, kingdom, nation, priesthood, magesterium, etc.), or through a written/spoken human language, I see that as inherent failures and tells me that the message cannot be from an omniscient, omnipotent being.

On the other hand, the laws the Buddha pointed out apply universally, throughout time and space.
 
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If a deity needs to tell a story through an allegedly specially selected people group or a special class (e.g. tribe, kingdom, nation, priesthood, magesterium, etc.), or through a written/spoken human language, I see that as inherent failures and tells me that the message cannot be from an omniscient, omnipotent being.

On the other hand, the laws the Buddha pointed out apply universally, throughout time and space.

Good Point

I have been involved in Buddhism for many years now, Christianity too, and NO there is no conflict.
But What I do notice is a different "sell" I have yet to meet any Buddhists who claim to have some unique insight or ownership of Buddha, truth life etc But I have met thousands of people at churches throughout my life that say things like "Oh you have to be a member of THIS church to get into Heaven|" or "Oh well if you go there then you are not a real Christian" or "If you do not believe as I do then YOU are WRONG" That is a big part of why I maintain such silence when I do go into a Christian church, and I have long stopped seeking acceptance or relationships therein. But that is never an issue at Buddhist gatherings, where acceptance is basic and truth is free.
 
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NeedyFollower

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If a deity needs to tell a story through an allegedly specially selected people group or a special class (e.g. tribe, kingdom, nation, priesthood, magesterium, etc.), or through a written/spoken human language, I see that as inherent failures and tells me that the message cannot be from an omniscient, omnipotent being.

On the other hand, the laws the Buddha pointed out apply universally, throughout time and space.
I do not read fiction any longer with the exception of allegory ( Like Gulliver's Travels ) . I can learn more by reading history and putting it together with other things from history . It is a bit like a jigsaw puzzle to see cause and effect .
So if God chose to give numerous examples so we can learn thereby , it's a failure ? Really ? So if God thought man can best learn through man , it's a failure . If God , in His wisdom and mercy gave us examples , that's a failure . In the beginning , God . In the end God . The laws of Buddha ? And where did these laws come from ? Did Buddha create them or discover them ? Does it cause you to love our heavenly Father ? To know Him ? You may or may not be a father . I am . I desire fellowship with my children ...not that they follow universal laws and truths . Do you not see the difference ? God the Father , sent His Son in order to demonstrate His love . ..John 3:16 because of the old english , has been mistranslated ...It would have been understood in our language like this " God , has demonstrated His love to the world in this manner by GIVING His only begotten Son " ...The emphasis is on God and giving . And the triumph over death by Christ so that we can become children of the most High God . It is about a relationship . Father and children . We are children . Children . Little children . No more .
 
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ananda

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I do not read fiction any longer with the exception of allegory ( Like Gulliver's Travels ) . I can learn more by reading history and putting it together with other things from history . It is a bit like a jigsaw puzzle to see cause and effect .
So if God chose to give numerous examples so we can learn thereby , it's a failure ? Really ? So if God thought man can best learn through man , it's a failure . If God , in His wisdom and mercy gave us examples , that's a failure . In the beginning , God . In the end God . The laws of Buddha ? And where did these laws come from ? Did Buddha create them or discover them ? Does it cause you to love our heavenly Father ? To know Him ? You may or may not be a father . I am . I desire fellowship with my children ...not that they follow universal laws and truths . Do you not see the difference ? God the Father , sent His Son in order to demonstrate His love . ..John 3:16 because of the old english , has been mistranslated ...It would have been understood in our language like this " God , has demonstrated His love to the world in this manner by GIVING His only begotten Son " ...The emphasis is on God and giving . And the triumph over death by Christ so that we can become children of the most High God . It is about a relationship . Father and children . We are children . Children . Little children . No more .
I haven't witnessed any of the things alleged in the Bible like you mentioned, so for now it is all fiction to me too. It is a failure to me because none of it is self-authenticating. If the author was omniscient and omnipotent, then I would expected a much, much higher standard for proof that allows its message to stand far above all other messages. I don't see that in the Bible.

As for the laws observed by the Buddha: we don't ask "where did they come from?" because the answer is unknowable. We just work with those laws towards our own emancipation.
 
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ananda

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Good Point

I have been involved in Buddhism for many years now, Christianity too, and NO there is no conflict.
How so?

But What I do notice is a different "sell" I have yet to meet any Buddhists who claim to have some unique insight or ownership of Buddha, truth life etc But I have met thousands of people at churches throughout my life that say things like "Oh you have to be a member of THIS church to get into Heaven|" or "Oh well if you go there then you are not a real Christian" or "If you do not believe as I do then YOU are WRONG" That is a big part of why I maintain such silence when I do go into a Christian church, and I have long stopped seeking acceptance or relationships therein. But that is never an issue at Buddhist gatherings, where acceptance is basic and truth is free.
I think that's because faith itself, in the Buddha, does not "save", whereas faith in the "correct" ideas and beliefs about Jesus seem to be a requirement for salvation in mainstream Christian.
 
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NeedyFollower

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I haven't witnessed any of the things alleged in the Bible like you mentioned, so for now it is all fiction to me too. It is a failure to me because none of it is self-authenticating. If the author was omniscient and omnipotent, then I would expected a much, much higher standard for proof that allows its message to stand far above all other messages. I don't see that in the Bible.

As for the laws observed by the Buddha: we don't ask "where did they come from?" because the answer is unknowable. We just work with those laws towards our own emancipation.
I haven't witnessed any of the things alleged in the Bible like you mentioned, so for now it is all fiction to me too. It is a failure to me because none of it is self-authenticating.
Actually my point regarding fiction was concerning the reason and the place for narrative. I have read fiction in the past . I have seen movies . It seems to me anyway , that we learn best from examples . Who is God ? What is He like ? What does He desire ? These are things which a narrative can explain . Also , the importance of narrative is that it gives continuity to the teachings and validity to the expected ( and forecasted ) promises .

If the author was omniscient and omnipotent, then I would expected a much, much higher standard for proof that allows its message to stand far above all other messages. I don't see that in the Bible.
For proof that it's message is far above all other messages ? If the Word ( purpose / Reason /Love )of God , put off His divinity , left his heavenly home and became a human King ...that would be a huge step down . But to become a despised day laborer , thought to be born of illegitimate birth in a very small town of Nazareth ( where everyone knew everyone ) only to allow Himself ...actually born to be crucified so that the scripture could be fulfilled in accordance with itself . ( Cursed is any man who hangs on a tree . ) To be totally spotless and pure ..not acquainted with the sin you and I were born with and to take on the sins of humanity in order to balance the scales . That is far and above any demonstration of love that I am aware of . Do you know of a higher demonstration ? That is a pretty high standard of proof of love. You don't see that in what Bible ? What bible do you study ?

As for the laws observed by the Buddha: we don't ask "where did they come from?" because the answer is unknowable. We just work with those laws towards our own emancipation.
And you are free to love and know God ? What if God created this world for His own purposes which are eternal in scope ? Do you pray for others ? Many people I know involved in religion , actually have spent spend little to no time reading the bible and in prayer asking God our Father for understanding . Their religion was a sunday religion until which time they fell away since their understanding was from a church . This is described in 2nd timothy , chapter 3 .
What do you think about the book of Nahum , chapter 3 . This is where we are today ...further it will say that they multiplied their merchants like the stars under heaven . What is your opinion of Isaiah ?
 
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ananda

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Actually my point regarding fiction was concerning the reason and the place for narrative. I have read fiction in the past . I have seen movies . It seems to me anyway , that we learn best from examples . Who is God ? What is He like ? What does He desire ? These are things which a narrative can explain . Also , the importance of narrative is that it gives continuity to the teachings and validity to the expected ( and forecasted ) promises .

For proof that it's message is far above all other messages ? If the Word ( purpose / Reason /Love )of God , put off His divinity , left his heavenly home and became a human King ...that would be a huge step down . But to become a despised day laborer , thought to be born of illegitimate birth in a very small town of Nazareth ( where everyone knew everyone ) only to allow Himself ...actually born to be crucified so that the scripture could be fulfilled in accordance with itself . ( Cursed is any man who hangs on a tree . ) To be totally spotless and pure ..not acquainted with the sin you and I were born with and to take on the sins of humanity in order to balance the scales . That is far and above any demonstration of love that I am aware of . Do you know of a higher demonstration ? That is a pretty high standard of proof of love. You don't see that in what Bible ? What bible do you study ?

And you are free to love and know God ? What if God created this world for His own purposes which are eternal in scope ? Do you pray for others ? Many people I know involved in religion , actually have spent spend little to no time reading the bible and in prayer asking God our Father for understanding . Their religion was a sunday religion until which time they fell away since their understanding was from a church . This is described in 2nd timothy , chapter 3 .
What do you think about the book of Nahum , chapter 3 . This is where we are today ...further it will say that they multiplied their merchants like the stars under heaven . What is your opinion of Isaiah ?
None of that is proof, as I've not witnessed any of those events for myself. Isaiah is a book of unverified authenticity.
 
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NeedyFollower

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None of that is proof, as I've not witnessed any of those events for myself. Isaiah is a book of unverified authenticity.
Micah 3:11: Their leaders judge for reward , their priest teach for hire , their prophets divine for money and yet will they say , Is YHWH not with us ; no evil will befall us , therefore Jerusalem shall be plowed like a field for your sakes .
This happened not long after this prophecy and it is repeating itself . It has been verified by history and archaeology . But many , many denied this at the time or did not want to hear it ....It was only proven after it happened . I do not know why . I really do not . I hope you can see these things with a soft heart and humility . As much as I am able , I try to see where I may be mistaken except i can not deny the evidence of history . I saw none of these things until I did .

Isiah 3:12 : As for my people, children are their oppressors and women rule over them . O, my people , they which lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths .

You realize that the majority of advertising dollars are targeted towards women and children . Why ? Because it has the best return on ad spend . Why ? Because they are the decision makers .
It seems to me , truth is it's own authenticity for those who desire truth .

There is a cost to truth . There is a cost to love . Unlike the form of Christianity I was raised to believe , repentance ( turning ) puts one at odds with society but many christians do not read their bibles . It seems that ( just like scriptures predict ) there has been a great falling away . And many ( just like Isaiah stated ) have been replenished from the east ...mysticysism , gurus, mother earth , spiritualism , coexsist , all one , etc. These "slogans " are paper thin and deny the reality of the corrupted spiritual DNA of our nature and the need for a restorer .This type of thinking, along with atheism , is particularly appealing to the highly educated and those wise according to this world ...It is a form of pride whereas we are taught that God gives grace to the humble . It is why salvation comes from the foolishness of preaching Christ and Him crucified . It is the power of salvation to all those believe ...the goodness of God. To the jews , a stumbling block and to the greeks , foolishness . But the weakness of God is stronger than man and the foolishness of God wiser than man . God takes things which are not to bring to nothing , the things which are . God uses the "nobodies " to humble the somebodies . Have you become no one yet ? Do you not understand that beauty and freedom that God granted ?
 
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ananda

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... It has been verified by history and archaeology...
... under standards that I do not accept. I hold to a far higher standard, which means it has not been verified, in my eyes.

Isiah 3:12 : As for my people, children are their oppressors and women rule over them . O, my people , they which lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths .

You realize that the majority of advertising dollars are targeted towards women and children . Why ? Because it has the best return on ad spend . Why ? Because they are the decision makers .
It seems to me , truth is it's own authenticity for those who desire truth .

There is a cost to truth . There is a cost to love . Unlike the form of Christianity I was raised to believe , repentance ( turning ) puts one at odds with society but many christians do not read their bibles . It seems that ( just like scriptures predict ) there has been a great falling away . And many ( just like Isaiah stated ) have been replenished from the east ...mysticysism , gurus, mother earth , spiritualism , coexsist , all one , etc. These "slogans " are paper thin and deny the reality of the corrupted spiritual DNA of our nature and the need for a restorer .This type of thinking, along with atheism , is particularly appealing to the highly educated and those wise according to this world ...It is a form of pride whereas we are taught that God gives grace to the humble . It is why salvation comes from the foolishness of preaching Christ and Him crucified . It is the power of salvation to all those believe ...the goodness of God. To the jews , a stumbling block and to the greeks , foolishness . But the weakness of God is stronger than man and the foolishness of God wiser than man . God takes things which are not to bring to nothing , the things which are . God uses the "nobodies " to humble the somebodies . Have you become no one yet ? Do you not understand that beauty and freedom that God granted ?
No, I don't. I was a Christian for almost 3 decades, but it was in in Buddhism where I found my freedom.
 
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NeedyFollower

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... under standards that I do not accept. I hold to a far higher standard, which means it has not been verified, in my eyes.

No, I don't. I was a Christian for almost 3 decades, but it was in in Buddhism where I found my freedom.
... under standards that I do not accept. I hold to a far higher standard, which means it has not been verified, in my eyes.

I guess we don't have any belief these days that was not at least facilitated by writings of some sort which were handed down orally initially . Even the flood story has appeared in many traditions . So , I am like you in that respect . Being a non-violence student of Christ, I would also hold to the some of the same teachings which Buddah is said to have practiced . But as you said , I hold to a higher standard ( The one God ) and a more ancient tradition . And the writings of Buddah just do not answer questions of purpose ....despite the fact that every thing most sane people do have a reason ...but there is no reason ? That is not reasonable . The Glory of God seems more reasonable to me anyway but that may be the difference between belief and faith ...I don't know .

I was a christian for 5 decades except that I wasn't . And even now , I am still learning what is the difference in belief verses faith . Many would say that faith is just believing what one has been taught . Or " just believe the bible . " I know that many suicide bombers believe many things and many atheist believe that there is no God . Also , it was written to believers , to endeavor for the faith once delivered to the saints so clearly there is a difference between belief and faith .


Did you love and know God when you were a Christian ? You may have told me earlier but I can't remember so please forgive me ( as I trust you will . ) You may remember the scripture which says , do not think it strange for the fiery trials which try you for these same things are accomplished in your brethren . My faith has had a cost ( and my teacher ( Jesus ) is said to expect that and it came to pass . But even if only one other person comes to understanding through the trials of my faith , what is the value of that ? What joy that would bring me . To see someone else obtain salvation .

Also , it is interesting that Jesus said that when He returned , it would be like the days of Noah ...People would be engaged in buying and selling , building and planting , marrying and giving in marriage ..until the flood came and took them all away . They should have known that things were bad but didn't . I see that same "deadness" today .

No prophecies in Buddhism ?
 
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ananda

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I guess we don't have any belief these days that was not at least facilitated by writings of some sort which were handed down orally initially . Even the flood story has appeared in many traditions . So , I am like you in that respect . Being a non-violence student of Christ, I would also hold to the some of the same teachings which Buddah is said to have practiced . But as you said , I hold to a higher standard ( The one God ) and a more ancient tradition . And the writings of Buddah just do not answer questions of purpose ....despite the fact that every thing most sane people do have a reason ...but there is no reason ? That is not reasonable . The Glory of God seems more reasonable to me anyway but that may be the difference between belief and faith ...I don't know .

I was a christian for 5 decades except that I wasn't . And even now , I am still learning what is the difference in belief verses faith . Many would say that faith is just believing what one has been taught . Or " just believe the bible . " I know that many suicide bombers believe many things and many atheist believe that there is no God . Also , it was written to believers , to endeavor for the faith once delivered to the saints so clearly there is a difference between belief and faith .


Did you love and know God when you were a Christian ? You may have told me earlier but I can't remember so please forgive me ( as I trust you will . ) You may remember the scripture which says , do not think it strange for the fiery trials which try you for these same things are accomplished in your brethren . My faith has had a cost ( and my teacher ( Jesus ) is said to expect that and it came to pass . But even if only one other person comes to understanding through the trials of my faith , what is the value of that ? What joy that would bring me . To see someone else obtain salvation .

Also , it is interesting that Jesus said that when He returned , it would be like the days of Noah ...People would be engaged in buying and selling , building and planting , marrying and giving in marriage ..until the flood came and took them all away . They should have known that things were bad but didn't . I see that same "deadness" today .

No prophecies in Buddhism ?
The Buddhist writings clarified for me a greater sense of purpose which the Christian writings did not: I understood that salvation was not my goal, but nibbana, after I realized that my (former) desires for salvation or heaven were merely a means to an end - the end being total peace.

I certainly "loved" God when I was a Christian.

There are some alleged prophecies in Buddhism, but we do not rest our hope on prophecies, but on the clear truths that are written in the laws all around us which the Buddha so lucidly pointed out & explained.
 
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NeedyFollower

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The Buddhist writings clarified for me a greater sense of purpose which the Christian writings did not: I understood that salvation was not my goal, but nibbana, after I realized that my (former) desires for salvation or heaven were merely a means to an end - the end being total peace.

I certainly "loved" God when I was a Christian.

There are some alleged prophecies in Buddhism, but we do not rest our hope on prophecies, but on the clear truths that are written in the laws all around us which the Buddha so lucidly pointed out & explained.
The Buddhist writings clarified for me a greater sense of purpose which the Christian writings did not: I understood that salvation was not my goal, but nibbana, after I realized that my (former) desires for salvation or heaven were merely a means to an end - the end being total peace.

Yes ...When I was a cultural christian, salvation , heaven ( the avoidance of hell ) were also part of the equation . I recall returning from an overseas flight at a time that I was living an ungodly life and thinking to myself .." If this plane should crash , I will repent before it goes down . " That shows how misguided I was ...It was about ME . As you said , it was a means to an end . Of course some apostles apparently did tell God fearers " Repent and save yourselves from the wrath that is to come " which was also the message that Noah preached ( him having seen the ungodliness all around him ) ...so they did prick their self interest but I suppose love of others would use any form of speech ( provided it was truthful ) as a wake up call ....not unlike going into a burning man's house and dragging them out of the fire ...even if they did not want to go .

Some time later I did actually repent but it was God orchestrated ..I did not seek Him but I guess someone who is lost and is unaware can not seek to be found ...they must be found . And my repentance came with many cost but included a new love of God which I had never had . Having been shown mercy and compassion , I could now understand loving my enemies for that is how I was loved . And it was not about me . Concern is often troubling . I had a happy life and peace prior to Christ but wealth can buy a man a lot distractions . Peace is a blissful day on a boat on a beautiful lake fishing . Christianity is seeing those drowning and no longer caring about fishing . It is a change of priorities . A change of point of view . Thy is why a man must be twice born ..once through lust by the will of man and secondly by the will of God through love .

I certainly "loved" God when I was a Christian.
But He loved you first and He does not change . I love His lowliness . This is how I know the gospel is true for I see how proud man is by nature . And I believe God to be unassuming , lowly and meek , not defending Himself for He who Is , has nothing to lose . How beautiful is His meekness despite His power .

There are some alleged prophecies in Buddhism, but we do not rest our hope on prophecies, but on the clear truths that are written in the laws all around us which the Buddha so lucidly pointed out & explained.

Many people consider prophecies which concern Christ . Nothing wrong with those of course but I prefer to see the Old Testament prophecies from the minor prophets for they indicate history repeating itself as it relates to believers . To be able to see what is happening around you , and see that it has happened before though it was 700 BC , gives a certain amount of validity . Truth verifies itself . It is it's own witness . We may not like what we see and truth may not resonate with us , but truth does not have an opinion and does not care what we think .
 
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ananda

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Yes ...When I was a cultural christian, salvation , heaven ( the avoidance of hell ) were also part of the equation . I recall returning from an overseas flight at a time that I was living an ungodly life and thinking to myself .." If this plane should crash , I will repent before it goes down . " That shows how misguided I was ...It was about ME . As you said , it was a means to an end . Of course some apostles apparently did tell God fearers " Repent and save yourselves from the wrath that is to come " which was also the message that Noah preached ( him having seen the ungodliness all around him ) ...so they did prick their self interest but I suppose love of others would use any form of speech ( provided it was truthful ) as a wake up call ....not unlike going into a burning man's house and dragging them out of the fire ...even if they did not want to go .

Some time later I did actually repent but it was God orchestrated ..I did not seek Him but I guess someone who is lost and is unaware can not seek to be found ...they must be found . And my repentance came with many cost but included a new love of God which I had never had . Having been shown mercy and compassion , I could now understand loving my enemies for that is how I was loved . And it was not about me . Concern is often troubling . I had a happy life and peace prior to Christ but wealth can buy a man a lot distractions . Peace is a blissful day on a boat on a beautiful lake fishing . Christianity is seeing those drowning and no longer caring about fishing . It is a change of priorities . A change of point of view . Thy is why a man must be twice born ..once through lust by the will of man and secondly by the will of God through love .

But He loved you first and He does not change . I love His lowliness . This is how I know the gospel is true for I see how proud man is by nature . And I believe God to be unassuming , lowly and meek , not defending Himself for He who Is , has nothing to lose . How beautiful is His meekness despite His power .

Many people consider prophecies which concern Christ . Nothing wrong with those of course but I prefer to see the Old Testament prophecies from the minor prophets for they indicate history repeating itself as it relates to believers . To be able to see what is happening around you , and see that it has happened before though it was 700 BC , gives a certain amount of validity . Truth verifies itself . It is it's own witness . We may not like what we see and truth may not resonate with us , but truth does not have an opinion and does not care what we think .
The positive qualities you mentioned are also found in Buddhism. We just don't find a need to attribute those positive qualities to an unobservable anthromorphic being.
 
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The positive qualities you mentioned are also found in Buddhism. We just don't find a need to attribute those positive qualities to an unobservable anthromorphic being.

I used to be a songwriter and singer. I was also very successful in business . As it turns out , I was raised to seek my own glory . When I was in the business world , it would make me upset when someone would take someone else' idea and make it their own and receive credit. I looked at it as a form of theft as indeed it is .
Jesus said , I did not come of my own volition but the Father sent me . He also said , what I hear , I speak .
Every good and perfect gift is from above . Are there writings which indicate that Buddha gave credit where credit was due ? If he had any truth , he only discovered it or it was revealed to him but I have not read where he attributes this to anyone other than himself .
Who would you attribute these qualities to ? Did we invent music or discover it ?
 
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I used to be a songwriter and singer. I was also very successful in business . As it turns out , I was raised to seek my own glory . When I was in the business world , it would make me upset when someone would take someone else' idea and make it their own and receive credit. I looked at it as a form of theft as indeed it is .
Jesus said , I did not come of my own volition but the Father sent me . He also said , what I hear , I speak .
Every good and perfect gift is from above . Are there writings which indicate that Buddha gave credit where credit was due ? If he had any truth , he only discovered it or it was revealed to him but I have not read where he attributes this to anyone other than himself .
Who would you attribute these qualities to ? Did we invent music or discover it ?
IMO it is the truth itself that matters, not "who discovered it?" or "who was the source?".

This is why the Dhamma (the teachings) is the bedrock of Buddhism - not the Buddha or faith in Him.
 
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NeedyFollower

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IMO it is the truth itself that matters, not "who discovered it?" or "who was the source?".

This is why the Dhamma (the teachings) is the bedrock of Buddhism - not the Buddha or faith in Him.

If any man teaches a different doctrine and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ , and to the doctrine which is according to godliness, he is proud , knowing nothing but doting about questions and strifes of words whereof cometh envy , strife , railings , evil surmising. Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds , and destitute of the truth supposing that gain is godliness : from such withdraw thyself .

Yes : The Christian Doctrine of what Christ preached is central to christianity as well . Although many have followed "another Jesus " starting very early on . ( It is like claiming to be a good Nazi and a follower of Hitler while loving the Jewish people , the mentally ill and the outcast of society... )
For example , everyone should know that "buildings , temples and shrines " are vanity and a waste of resources . Believers are to be Living stones with Christ the corner stone . I find it hard to believe that God cares about inanimate objects .
There are innumerable ways to deny God but of course that is a bit silly . The creature denying the creator of all things . Denying the wrapping up of all things . The falling away . The souless and lifeless body which society is becoming . This is predicted so we can know .
Jesus said to go and make disciples of me TEACHING them to observe all that I have commanded you . So teachings are important but if they deny the creator , they will in the end deny life.
Oh , my ...the superiority of the creature ...he has made himself god .
 
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ananda

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If any man teaches a different doctrine and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ , and to the doctrine which is according to godliness, he is proud , knowing nothing but doting about questions and strifes of words whereof cometh envy , strife , railings , evil surmising. Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds , and destitute of the truth supposing that gain is godliness : from such withdraw thyself .

Yes : The Christian Doctrine of what Christ preached is central to christianity as well . Although many have followed "another Jesus " starting very early on . ( It is like claiming to be a good Nazi and a follower of Hitler while loving the Jewish people , the mentally ill and the outcast of society... )
For example , everyone should know that "buildings , temples and shrines " are vanity and a waste of resources . Believers are to be Living stones with Christ the corner stone . I find it hard to believe that God cares about inanimate objects .
There are innumerable ways to deny God but of course that is a bit silly . The creature denying the creator of all things . Denying the wrapping up of all things . The falling away . The souless and lifeless body which society is becoming . This is predicted so we can know .
Jesus said to go and make disciples of me TEACHING them to observe all that I have commanded you . So teachings are important but if they deny the creator , they will in the end deny life.
Oh , my ...the superiority of the creature ...he has made himself god .
Yes, those are the claims of Christianity, but how do you know that they are true, and not just possess faith that they are true? How do you know who the "Lord Jesus Christ" or "God" is, if you haven't seen or heard him, for yourself? Or his doctrines, words, or preaching, for yourself?
 
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NeedyFollower

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Yes, those are the claims of Christianity, but how do you know that they are true, and not just possess faith that they are true? How do you know who the "Lord Jesus Christ" or "God" is, if you haven't seen or heard him, for yourself? Or his doctrines, words, or preaching, for yourself?
Let us not stop there ..why not include any man's words or writings ? I am not naive enough to not understand that the translations and copies of any writings ....and I say any ...Tacitus , Josephus , Baga-gavita ..Koran, the gospels , what's known as the old testament , The Vedas ...any ...contain errors of translation , miscopying , additions , etc.
Now of course we do not have that problem with modern books such as Atheism : The Case Against God by George H Smith or the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins . ( Both of which you may enjoy and may reinforce your view . )

There are things which I observe which seem to be fairly reasonable when viewed through the lens of written accounts of history as we have them . " Cursed is the man who trust in man and makes the flesh the arm of his strength . " That is from the old testament ...from Jeremiah and from John 2:24 " But Jesus did not entrust himself to them for he knew all men . "
Also , do not resist evil but overcome it with good . It is apparent that often times there is anxiousness to "protest " injustice whether it be abortion or here recently " black lives matter type campaigns . " The odd thing is , hate is often on both sides of the debate just wearing different campaign clothes . So this also resonates with Jesus' words . There are many such examples which are contrary to the way humans do things ....as I said before ..the biggest being pride which we are taught is from the enemy of God and man . Learn of me , for I am lowly of heart and meek . Using reason ...it is apparent that the more intelligent or successful a man becomes , the more proud . With that pride comes the lack of humility which is a prerequisite of repentance . It is why Jesus said that it is easier for a camel to go through a needles eye than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven ...a rich man is very often very sure of himself and has the trappings of success . Also , it was the chief priest and the chief among the people that crucified christ ...that also is reasonable ...for Jesus is a threat to every man but especially those who have invested heavily in a religious ( or carnal system) which allows them much esteem of others . That is why it is not wise to become a well known religious guru ...or to write books or to lead a congregation .
Jesus said that those of the truth , will hear the truth . Whether that is true or not , I do not know but it sounds right . Can I prove it ? No , but the prophecies of the times in which we find ourselves seem to agree with the writings contained in both the old testament and the new ...unless we just do not wish to believe them ...in which case we will not be forced into it . We will be given delusion if we received not a love for the truth . I personally believe america has reached a place beyond the ability to repent . Too proud . Maybe a few people but not many . Could serve as example for other peoples though . I don't know .
 
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ananda

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Let us not stop there ..why not include any man's words or writings ? I am not naive enough to not understand that the translations and copies of any writings ....and I say any ...Tacitus , Josephus , Baga-gavita ..Koran, the gospels , what's known as the old testament , The Vedas ...any ...contain errors of translation , miscopying , additions , etc.
I agree! I haven't heard any of the original speakers for myself.

Now of course we do not have that problem with modern books such as Atheism : The Case Against God by George H Smith or the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins . ( Both of which you may enjoy and may reinforce your view . ) There are things which I observe which seem to be fairly reasonable when viewed through the lens of written accounts of history as we have them . "Cursed is the man who trust in man and makes the flesh the arm of his strength . " That is from the old testament ...from Jeremiah and from John 2:24 " But Jesus did not entrust himself to them for he knew all men . " Also , do not resist evil but overcome it with good . It is apparent that often times there is anxiousness to "protest " injustice whether it be abortion or here recently " black lives matter type campaigns . " The odd thing is , hate is often on both sides of the debate just wearing different campaign clothes . So this also resonates with Jesus' words . There are many such examples which are contrary to the way humans do things ....as I said before ..the biggest being pride which we are taught is from the enemy of God and man . Learn of me , for I am lowly of heart and meek . Using reason ...it is apparent that the more intelligent or successful a man becomes , the more proud . With that pride comes the lack of humility which is a prerequisite of repentance . It is why Jesus said that it is easier for a camel to go through a needles eye than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven ...a rich man is very often very sure of himself and has the trappings of success . Also , it was the chief priest and the chief among the people that crucified christ ...that also is reasonable ...for Jesus is a threat to every man but especially those who have invested heavily in a religious ( or carnal system) which allows them much esteem of others . That is why it is not wise to become a well known religious guru ...or to write books or to lead a congregation .
Jesus said that those of the truth , will hear the truth . Whether that is true or not , I do not know but it sounds right . Can I prove it ? No , but the prophecies of the times in which we find ourselves seem to agree with the writings contained in both the old testament and the new ...unless we just do not wish to believe them ...in which case we will not be forced into it . We will be given delusion if we received not a love for the truth . I personally believe america has reached a place beyond the ability to repent . Too proud . Maybe a few people but not many . Could serve as example for other peoples though . I don't know .
The books in the Bible you're trusting were written and translated by men, so therefore it stands to reason that one should not trust in them because "cursed is the man who trust in man".
 
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