WHY IS THERE SO MANY WARNINGS FROM GOD'S WORD ABOUT LOSING SALVATION IF IT IS NOT POSSIBLE??

Bladerunner · Jul 29, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
God's Word does not teach once saved always saved. This is a false Gospel that has it's origin in the first temptation in the garden of Eden to Eve which caused the fall of mankind *GENESIS 3:1-5 where the devil said to Eve you can break God's Law and not surely die *GENESIS 3:3-4. God's Word on the other hand teaches the wages of sin (breaking God's Law; 1 JOHN 3:4) is death to all those who reject the gift of Gods dear son *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:13. If you disagree please respond to post # 195 linked which gives a verse by verse comparison of HEBREWS 6:4-8 showing that these scriptures are in reference to those who were once believers. These scriptures also tie in with HEBREWS 10:26-31.

Hope this helps.

If you read the words literally, they will fit together a whole lot better. But we will have to agree to disagree with what Hebrews

tall73 said:
Do you have evidence of groups two and three? He seems to address them as believers consistently. And he tends to include himself with them in "we" and "us" statements.

Paul wrote 12 books, excluding Hebrews and 5 of them were doubles or to pastors. This 7 epistles to 7 churches...

How close are they to the 7 letters that Jesus authored to the 7 churches in Revelation.

Blade

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

Hammster said:
What happens, though, to sheep who wander away? Would the Shepherd be good if He just said, “well, they turned their back so I’ll let them go”?

Shepherds protect from outside attacks, and from the wanderings of sheep. See psalm 23.

Certainly a shepherd seeks the sheep, even when they wander away. However, even in the parable of the lost sheep, the sinner still had to repent for there to be rejoicing in heaven.

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

Bladerunner said:
Paul wrote 12 books, excluding Hebrews and 5 of them were doubles or to pastors. This 7 epistles to 7 churches...

How close are they to the 7 letters that Jesus authored to the 7 churches in Revelation.

Blade

I am sorry. I do not understand what you are saying.

Hammster · Jul 29, 2019

tall73 said:
That is why I am asking your view of it. I agree 39 seems to say that he does not expect them to fall away.

Yet the whole book is clearly a caution against falling away. So is it your view that they were elect, and that God provided the encouragement they needed in order not to fall away through this address?

This is why I think it written to Jews in general, and anyone reading it would fall into one of those three categories.

Hammster · Jul 29, 2019

tall73 said:
Certainly a shepherd seeks the sheep, even when they wander away. However, even in the parable of the lost sheep, the sinner still had to repent for there to be rejoicing in heaven.

It doesn’t say that.

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

I John 5 sums up that we do have confidence in God, that He has given us eternal life, in His Son. Even there though, he who has the Son has life, and he who does not have the son of God does not have life. The issue in Hebrews is that he was warning them not to turn away from the Son who was the only sacrifice for them. There was no other basis to be saved. You have to have the Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Hammster · Jul 29, 2019

tall73 said:
I John 5 sums up that we do have confidence in God, that He has given us eternal life, in His Son. Even there though, he who has the Son has life, and he who does not have the son of God does not have life. The issue in Hebrews is that he was warning them not to turn away from the Son who was the only sacrifice for them. There was no other basis to be saved. You have to have the Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Don’t forget verse 1.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
— 1 John 5:1

Not will be.

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

Hammster said:
It doesn’t say that.

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

The joy over the sinner repenting is repeated after the parable of the lost sheep and coin. Do you think that the repentance was unrelated to the sheep returning?

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

Hammster said:
Don’t forget verse 1.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
— 1 John 5:1

Not will be.

Agreed, and John 5, crossed over from death to life.

I see these texts, and agree they speak of assurance, and current reality.

On the other hand, I see the other texts and they seem to indicate that you can turn your back on Him. And at that point, what is the basis for salvation?

Hammster · Jul 29, 2019

tall73 said:
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

The joy over the sinner repenting is repeated after the parable of the lost sheep and coin. Do you think that the repentance was unrelated to the sheep returning?

Where does it say that the sheep repented? He rejoiced because he found it.

Hammster · Jul 29, 2019

tall73 said:
Agreed, and John 5, crossed over from death to life.

I see these texts, and agree they speak of assurance, and current reality.

On the other hand, I see the other texts and they seem to indicate that you can turn your back on Him. And at that point, what is the basis for salvation?

Grace.

For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered. “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
— Romans 4:3-8

The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
— Romans 5:20-6:2

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

Hammster said:
Where does it say that the sheep repented? He rejoiced because he found it.

It says the sinner repented. Do you think the parables had any connection to the sinners who were being spoken to when the parables were told, and are referenced after them?

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

Hammster said:
Grace.

For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered. “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
— Romans 4:3-8

The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
— Romans 5:20-6:2

Grace is for those in Christ, who have the faith of David, Abraham, etc.

I am not arguing for works based salvation. Though I realize that from a 5 point Calvanist perspective even faith would be works, so we may be unable to fully agree.

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

Hammster said:
Grace.

For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered. “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
— Romans 4:3-8

The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
— Romans 5:20-6:2

By the way, did you have any comment on the 2 Peter material I posted earlier?

Hammster · Jul 29, 2019

tall73 said:
It says the sinner repented. Do you think the parables had any connection to the sinners who were being spoken to when the parables were told, and are referenced after them?

You said the sheep needed to repent first, which is not what it says. And it doesn’t say that the sinner repented, but that there’s joy in heaven when one does.

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

Hammster said:
You said the sheep needed to repent first, which is not what it says. And it doesn’t say that the sinner repented, but that there’s joy in heaven when one does.

So please explain the entire context and meaning of the three parables. Because you seem to make no connection to the repentance of the sinner to the parables themselves.

Hammster · Jul 29, 2019

tall73 said:
Grace is for those in Christ, who have the faith of David, Abraham, etc.

I am not arguing for works based salvation. Though I realize that from a 5 point Calvanist perspective even faith would be works, so we may be unable to fully agree.

Faith is the only work.

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
— John 6:29

Hammster · Jul 29, 2019

tall73 said:
In 2 Peter we have reference to another group who seem to have gone astray, and are beyond recovery. He writes to the faithful to warn against these false teachers:

15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer,who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.

17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”g]">[g] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

The wording of having escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ refers back to chapter 1:

3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,a]">[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

False prophets.

They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
— 1 John 2:19

Hammster · Jul 29, 2019

tall73 said:
So please explain the entire context and meaning of the three parables. Because you seem to make no connection to the repentance of the sinner to the parables themselves.

Any sheep that are His will repent because they hear Him and follow. But it’s not the repentance that makes them His sheep.

tall73 · Jul 29, 2019

Hammster said:
This is why I think it written to Jews in general, and anyone readi it would fall into one of those three categories.

That is why I asked for evidence of groups two and three. The only references I see to the audience speak of group 1.

Do you have texts the spell out the other two, or do you infer them?

WHY IS THERE SO MANY WARNINGS FROM GOD'S WORD ABOUT LOSING SALVATION IF IT IS NOT POSSIBLE??

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