Is it sinful for a married man to touch while thinking about his wife ?

Dave-W said:

That is not provable from a biblical standpoint.

I am not saying it does not happen; I am sure it does. But it is NOT the act; rather it is the mental thoughts and fantasies that result in the lust.

The word for lust in Matt 5 is epithumeo - a strong desire. Elsewhere in the NT it is translated "covet;" as it is also used in the LXX to translate covet in the 10 commandments.

To covet is to desire and plan to take away something that is NOT YOURS. For a guy to imagine his wife, she IS his; and for that reason that is NOT LUST.

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Rubbish! You were shown God's Word and the GREEK text meanings for fornication inappropriate contenteuō as applied to

1 CORINTHIANS 6:18 [18], FLEE FORNICATION. Every SIN that a man does is without the body; but he that commits FORNICATION SINS AGAINST HIS OWN BODY

GREEK WORD FORNICATION; πορνεύω; inappropriate contenteuō From G4204; to act the harlot, that is, (literally) indulge unlawful lust (of either sex), or (figuratively) practise idolatry: - commit (fornication).

As posted earlier the act involves indulging in unlawful lust. 1 CORINTHIANS 6:18 tells us to flee unlawful lust and that it is a SIN against the body.

Your trying to justifiy that it is ok to sin against the body when God's Word says it is not ok and tells us not to do it.

MATTHEW 5 epithumeo has nothing to do with the Greek Word used in 1 CORINTHIANS 6:18 which is inappropriate contenteuō which is unlawful lust against the body.

LoveGodsWord said:

GREEK WORD FORNICATION; πορνεύω; inappropriate contenteuō From G4204; to act the harlot, that is, (literally) indulge unlawful lust (of either sex), or (figuratively) practise idolatry: - commit (fornication).

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inappropriate contentia as used in the Greek speaking diaspora Jewish community meant anything that violated the Law of Moses' sexual standards.

Where is masturbation in that?

LoveGodsWord said:

1 CORINTHIANS 6:18 [18], FLEE FORNICATION. Every SIN that a man does is without the body; but he that commits FORNICATION SINS AGAINST HIS OWN BODY

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You have yet to show Biblically how masturbation falls in that definition of inappropriate contentia/ fornication.

timothyu said:

Prayers are not often long, so that would seem the rest of the day is to be filled with whoopee?

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No. Paul was from a Jewish background. Devout Jewish couples are not allowed to have sex between the time the woman's period starts, and the time of her mikvah bath after the bleeding has completely stopped, so they have to deal with that cycle. During that part of it, some would devote themselves to prayer, or other things of value. Some of them like that rhythm in their lives. Paul was presenting a makeshift way to imitate these Jewish couples without holding the Law over Gentile couples as an option for how they could live.

Sketcher said:

No. Paul was from a Jewish background. Devout Jewish couples are not allowed to have sex between the time the woman's period starts, and the time of her mikvah bath after the bleeding has completely stopped, so they have to deal with that cycle. During that part of it, some would devote themselves to prayer, or other things of value. Some of them like that rhythm in their lives. Paul was presenting a makeshift way to imitate these Jewish couples without holding the Law over Gentile couples as an option for how they could live.

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Party pooper

timothyu said:

Party pooper

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Not seeing the logic there, since Paul was presenting the abstention within marriage as completely optional, at very least for Gentiles.

Mark45 said:

Is it sinful for a married man to touch while thinking and having fantasies about his wife ?
Is it forbidden in The Holy Scriptures? Is it wrong to ask such a question ?

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Hi Mark45,

I haven't read through all the answers you have been given but the one question that came to my mind is this: Have you talked to your wife about this? What does she think about it and how would it make her feel?

Mark45 said:

Is that what medical and surgical doctors and consultants and medical professional psychologists think about impotence in young men is at epidemic levels due to sinful inappropriate contentography ?

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Yes. That is true. Teenagers are developing impotence because of their addiction to inappropriate contentography. The become so over stimulated with fantasy that reality no longer appeals to them.

Mark45 said:

She really doesn’t mind

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With the marriage bed being pure before the Lord, and with you and your wife being in agreement over this where she is not offended by it, and with you not thinking of anyone else but her, I don't see an issue with it biblically.

If your desire for intimacy/release is more frequent than hers is and it ends up creating an obligatory-type of sexual experience for her, or if sex makes her feel used because she's not allowed ample "time" to rebuild her own sexual desire (after the previous sexual encounter) before your next urge comes, then this might be a way to help alleviate the pressure for her while giving you some release while you wait.

If, however, there are issues within the marriage itself (or in life) that are causing your wife difficulty in having or building her own sexual desire, then I would say you two should focus on identifying what those issues are and work to bring resolution to them so that the natural ebon flow of mutual desire for sexual intimacy together can be experienced.

Remember, there is no "set standard" of frequency for marital intimacy in the Bible. Each couple needs to work together to find what works for them in that area, all things considered. Typically speaking, men and women have different levels of desire which can shift during different stages of life or according to circumstances, etc., so working together to find a solution for a mutually satisfying sex life takes a lot of hard work - but the payoff is amazing if you're both willing to invest and do the work necessary.

And if "this" is part of the solution that you both have come up with, then I say go for it. That's just my .02. Hope that helps.

Dave-W said:

You have yet to show Biblically how masturbation falls in that definition of inappropriate contentia/ fornication.

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You'll have to get in line behind everyone else who is waiting for scriptures from him on various topics.

LoveGodsWord said:

Just the fact that your questioning this I would suggest it means that God's Spirit is convicting you not to do this. Even though it is your wife it is a lust of the flesh apart from your wife without her consent. If God has convicted you put it away from you and ask God to be your strength in temptation.

God bless

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No not sinful at all ...

Dave-W said:

You have yet to show Biblically how masturbation falls in that definition of inappropriate contentia/ fornication.

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Already have it is unlawful lust and a sin against the body to practice it 1 CORINTHIANS 6:18 and here you are still promotiong it.

bekkilyn said:

You'll have to get in line behind everyone else who is waiting for scriptures from him on various topics.

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I think it is the other way round isn't it? You have always been provided scripture and in response to different topics that disagree with you and in response, ignore the scriptures that are only shared in love and as a help to you. Please by all means prove your claims show me a link to various topics where I have not provided scripture? If you cannot why make of things up that are not true? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

LoveGodsWord said:

it is unlawful lust and a sin against the body to practice it 1 CORINTHIANS 6:18

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That is talking about couple sex.

If the OP is in a couple, the other partner is his wife.
That is NOT lust or fornication.

You CANNOT lust for or fornicate with your own spouse.

Dave-W said:

That is talking about couple sex.

If the OP is in a couple, the other partner is his wife.
That is NOT lust or fornication.

You CANNOT lust for or fornicate with your own spouse.

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inappropriate contenteo is unlawful lust. Someone having sex with themselves is not blessed by God and is fornication that we are commanded by God to flee which is a sin against the body.

The best I can tell is defining inappropriate contenteo as unlawful lust in a modern day adding to the meaning of the word ... I can't find any use to proneo as unlawful sex. When inappropriate contenteo at its family of words are used in the Septuagint OT it is used to translate the Heb. work for prostitution which is the meaning of the word today in Greece. So in over 2200 years the meaning hasn't changed for the Greeks. The best I fine is that modern American theologians didn't like that there were so many sexual type acts that weren't sinful according to the Bible so they put this undefined term term into the lexicons. So I would disagree that of the 5 words in the Greek family of inappropriate contenteuo should haven't anything to do with unlawful sex acts.

LoveGodsWord said:

Someone having sex with themselves is not blessed by God and is fornication

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So why then is Shulamite called "undefiled" in Song of Solomon chapter 5 when SHE is masturbating?

Dave-W said:

inappropriate contentia as used in the Greek speaking diaspora Jewish community meant anything that violated the Law of Moses' sexual standards. Where is masturbation in that?

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The evil lies in the intentional wasteful spilling of sperm, less the sexual thoughts towards his wife, albeit driven by lust, idolatry, and visual (mental) objectification of a woman. (It's not adultery and not sexual immorality - being exempt in marriage)

See Onan's case in Genesis, "he spilled it on the ground… And the thing which he did displeased the Lord" (Gen. 38.9-10) being likened to murder and idolatry.

Leviticus 15 reiterates,

"And if any man's seed of copulation (shekabah-yatsa, שִׁכְבַת־זָרַע) go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even." (Lev. 15:16-18)

Seed of copulation (shekabah-yatsa, שִׁכְבַת־זָרַע) figuratively refers to 'seeds, harvest fields of grain, fruit, etc' but also 'offspring, progeny, descendants'.

Thus, this topic is not only quite sick but it reveals everyone's mis-understanding of the purpose of copulation being pro-creation, and God's involvement in what is wrongly presumed to be a private personal moment; perhaps assuming marriage is a license to sin, misusefully or abusively treating one's body and his bride. -- Yes, the wife belongs to her husband and vice versa, but the body and the person belongs to God. 'For ye are bought with a price.' (1 Cor. 6:20)

It's matter of responsible stewardship, remembering Lot, that his habits from Sodom stayed with him for life, in his lust and irresponsible drinking which lead to irresponsible behaviour, incest with his daughters.

See Genesis 3 for God's first promise made to Eve, "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Gen 3:16)

The Father wants children, but the man wants selfish physical gratification. That's the idolatry (a breach of the 1st and 2nd commandment) and the error.